Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 But the thing is that it may be a total lie. Would you strap yourself to a bomb hoping for bikini babes in paradise?? The cost is too high and the salesman Mohammed is a freaking criminal. The small voice in me says, you are being royally conned, dude. Or not. Perhaps they're right, and you're wrong, then they get the reward, and you get Hell. You and I can share a rock when we get there. You bring the beer. I'll get the ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 << Of course you wouldn't talk about the Middle Age church, because it would prove my point. And there is still no proof that Jesus is the great hippie guy you claim he is. >> He was a great hippie guy and he did amazing miracles. He was also a very righteous man. He is still a very compelling figure even after 2000 years. The New Testament portrayal of Jesus is still convincing people to become Christians - even if they dislike churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 << So, Paul was kidding when he said "By faith are we judged, so that no man may boast"? >> The correct quote is, 'By faith we are saved, that no one may boast.' We can argue about translations 'till the cows come home, but the facts are, Paul was a nut of one kind, and he became a nut of another. I doubt he was as accepting as you think he was. Also, I doubt you actually studied the texts objectively. Or bothered to learn anything about Greek. But what about people without faith? Paul also talks about God judging people according to their deeds and there is no idea of 'automatic hell for unbelievers'. I think idea is actually unbiblical because the New Testament clearly follows Jewish idea of just God who judges people according to their deeds. But the controversial part of Paul's teaching is that he is quite pessimistic about all humans. He thinks all people should accept the Gospel of Grace if they are to have any realistic chance. But that is Paul. I doubt you have a clue what "Paul" actually meant, as many of "his" Epistles were likely written by other people, and there are contradictions within single texts. But if you SERIOUSLY think there is no "automatic hell for unbelievers", you have a HUGE blind spot when it comes to reading scripture. Personally, I was happy to take his advise because uncertainty of death used to be a big worry for me. Chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 << Of course you wouldn't talk about the Middle Age church, because it would prove my point. And there is still no proof that Jesus is the great hippie guy you claim he is. >> He was a great hippie guy and he did amazing miracles. He was also a very righteous man. He is still a very compelling figure even after 2000 years. The New Testament portrayal of Jesus is still convincing people to become Christians - even if they dislike churches. Jesus has compelled 2,2 billion people. Large part of them are Catholics and shouldn't be counted since they're false Christians. And Mohammad has compelled 2.2 billion people. Most of them very devout. If you would look at division and coherence, there are only two (or three) versions of Islam, while there are some 30,000 denominations of Christians. Jesus said we'd know you were from God based on your unity, but I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 Perhaps they're right, and you're wrong, then they get the reward, and you get Hell. You and I can share a rock when we get there. You bring the beer. I'll get the ribs. Well, yeah. I am kinda atheist when it comes to Islam or Jim Jones or David Kuresh, etc. Atheism really do have its merits !! Atheist with skepticism should be honored for their contributions. Beer? Here is to atheism and science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 << According to some Muslims, Islam is a religion of peace. Are they all lying? Are they just white-washing their religion just like you are about Christianity? >> Yes, to an extent they do whitewash. Actually to say Islam means peace is inaccurate. Islam, above all, means SUBMISSION, not peace. Their conception of peace is that peace comes only when the world submits to Allah god of Islam. Until then there is never ending jihad wars. Christian conception of peace is more readily accessible - just believe the Gospel message of Jesus Christ and you will experience personal peace. It is not submission, but believing. In a way, the price is a lot lower to go with Christian faith in terms of Pascal's wager. And this idea of 'almost free insurance' is a realistic, if a crass picture. I still think being a Christian is a rational choice given the uncertainties and difficulties of life. What Islam teaches about peace and what Christianity teaches about peace makes no difference until you answer why you think the Christian God exists and not Allah. You haven't dealt with how you determined one was true and the other is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 The New Testament portrayal of Jesus is still convincing people to become Christians - even if they dislike churches. I never claimed people weren't stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 << Jesus said we'd know you were from God based on your unity, but I don't see it. >> The exact quote is that people will know Jesus disciples by their love for each other. And then Jesus prayed for their unity. In both accounts, we Christians have long way to go. But I do love all Christians for their faith in Jesus. There is some sense of commonality in shared faith. It is really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 18, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted April 18, 2010 Jesus has compelled 2,2 billion people. Large part of them are Catholics and shouldn't be counted since they're false Christians. Hey! Pascal himself was a Catholic! How dare you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Jesus has compelled 2,2 billion people. Large part of them are Catholics and shouldn't be counted since they're false Christians. Hey! Pascal himself was a Catholic! How dare you! HAH! As I said, no one disagrees more than two christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 This guy wants to be Joel "my smile makes W look smart" Osteen. I'm with Florduh. This has to be a ringer. Nobody can be that smarmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 << until you answer why you think the Christian God exists and not Allah. You haven't dealt with how you determined one was true and the other is not true. >> That is a difficult point. My idea is to go by the founders of each religion. I find Jesus to be a great humanbeing while I find Mohammed to be a violent criminal guy. For me, there is no real comparison. My personal opinion is that Islam is one of the real bad religions out there. I mean, what kind of religion has female suicide bombers to kill random civilians in subway ??? Islam is the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 Jesus has compelled 2,2 billion people. Large part of them are Catholics and shouldn't be counted since they're false Christians. Hey! Pascal himself was a Catholic! How dare you! See, I did not say that. I have nothing but the deepest respect for Pascal. He was a great saint of God. I am totally positive that the amazing genius is Heaven right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 Thanks for all the spirited remarks. I am really grateful for you all. Very best wishes. But I may be back.. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 Thanks for all the spirited remarks. I am really grateful for you all. Very best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Yes, run and not address my challenge to PROVE that Jesus is the peaceful man he claims him to be. I'm not even challenging the idea that Muhammed and Islam are hateful. Just prove Jesus is loving, and explain the verses were he is not, including Revelations. ....? Anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 The idea of paradise filled with nubile virgins is not all that bad!!! Disgusting pig. Ok, sorry for the offense. I am a male and I was being honest. I like to be among many beautiful virgins in bikinis. But the thing is that it may be a total lie. Would you strap yourself to a bomb hoping for bikini babes in paradise?? The cost is too high and the salesman Mohammed is a freaking criminal. The small voice in me says, you are being royally conned, dude. I am a male and was being honest as well. I thought only Muslims lusted over virgins. I find nothing remotely appealing about having sex with someone with no experience and who will not enjoy it with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Well, yeah. I am kinda atheist when it comes to Islam or Jim Jones or David Kuresh, etc. David Koresh claimed he had become a born again Christian in some Southern Baptist Church. I guess he was another one of those evil and false Christians. Atheism really do have its merits !! Atheist with skepticism should be honored for their contributions. Amen. Beer? Here is to atheism and science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 That is a difficult point. My idea is to go by the founders of each religion. I find Jesus to be a great humanbeing while I find Mohammed to be a violent criminal guy. Does the moral quality of a religion's founder make that religion true, then? How exactly does that follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 par! GAH! don't SCARE me like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 << Jesus said we'd know you were from God based on your unity, but I don't see it. >> The exact quote is that people will know Jesus disciples by their love for each other. And then Jesus prayed for their unity. John 17:21-22 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Well, do you blame us for not believing God sent Jesus? In both accounts, we Christians have long way to go. I'd say you've gone 2,000 steps backwards. You have a lot of catching up to do. But I do love all Christians for their faith in Jesus. There is some sense of commonality in shared faith. It is really nice. Sure. I find it very refreshing and nice when I meet atheists and non-believers of all kinds. I just got to know the other day that one person I've known for a couple of months is an atheist. I was joyfully surprised. I'm glad that there are people I can share my unbelief with, like this place. That's kind of the purpose of this website. But your welcome to be here and proclaim that we're wrong and you're right, as long as you play by the rules. (Or you'll get eternal banishment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 << until you answer why you think the Christian God exists and not Allah. You haven't dealt with how you determined one was true and the other is not true. >> That is a difficult point. My idea is to go by the founders of each religion. I find Jesus to be a great humanbeing while I find Mohammed to be a violent criminal guy. For me, there is no real comparison. My personal opinion is that Islam is one of the real bad religions out there. I mean, what kind of religion has female suicide bombers to kill random civilians in subway ??? Islam is the pits. Once again, you are talking about personal preference. Allah could be real, whether you prefer it or not and Muhammad could have been his prophet whether you would choose him for cool dude of the year. How do you determine real from non real, true from false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Jesus has compelled 2,2 billion people. Large part of them are Catholics and shouldn't be counted since they're false Christians. Hey! Pascal himself was a Catholic! How dare you! Oh shit. Our new friend here is in trouble. I told you he was a heretic. We'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya, with our feet hanging over the fire in Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 18, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted April 18, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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