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Goodbye Jesus

In And Out Of Faith


JayL

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

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It's getting even funnier!

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

 

I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

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<< Well the real Gospel picture of God IS Jesus of Nazareth.

centauri:

That’s wishful thinking on your part.

Jesus of Nazareth claimed that he had a god, even after he had ascended. >>

 

Jesus said that he and the Father are one and the same. Jesus IS the physical picture of God. That is Biblical Christianity.

If you're using that to establish that Jesus was the Hebrew God, then Jesus contradicted himself.

Jesus also clearly said that he had a god.

He even said that after he had ascended.

If someone has a god then they aren't god.

You only have a version of what you think Biblical Christianity is, while there are several Christian sects that deny Jesus as being God.

The Bible God declared long before Trinitarians came along that he was not a human being and warned his people not to be seduced by pagan concepts of God.

 

JayL:

As a Christian, I mostly stick to New Testament. There it is real clear. How do you expect people to delve in the Old Testament when they have trouble getting thru the New?? New Testament is a lot closer to modern mentality is far more accessible.

The New Testament undermines the "Old Testament".

That's the problem you're just waving away as being irrelevant.

But it's not irrelevant if you're supposed to be taking the whole Bible seriously.

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

 

I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

 

Good luck odd. Seriously. He still won't answer over half my questions, including the whole "was Jesus REALLY the lovey-dovey hippie you say he is?" other than to say "He was SO, YOU DOO DOO HEAD!"

And he corrects my biblical quotes, which wouldn't bother me so much if his didn't so obviously come from some modern dumb-dumb fluffy-wuffy bible, with no basis in the Greek texts. Of course, that's the comparative religions nerd coming out of me. I'm willing to be "wrong", but not to some waffle who can't make up his damn mind or fucking study.

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He still won't answer over half my questions, including the whole "was Jesus REALLY the lovey-dovey hippie you say he is?" other than to say "He was SO, YOU DOO DOO HEAD!"

 

He was so, in JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR, you doo doo head! :grin:

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He still won't answer over half my questions, including the whole "was Jesus REALLY the lovey-dovey hippie you say he is?" other than to say "He was SO, YOU DOO DOO HEAD!"

 

He was so, in JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR, you doo doo head! :grin:

 

OMG! Now I have to repent of my sins to the holy Jewish Zombie, and offer my brain in utter love for his righteous hunger!

 

....or will Ceiling Cat save me?

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OMG! Now I have to repent of my sins to the holy Jewish Zombie, and offer my brain in utter love for his righteous hunger!

 

....or will Ceiling Cat save me?

 

Damn! Now you'll have to plead with Hans, for his intercessory prayers to reach Ceiling Cat!

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

 

I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

I'm afraid that the definition of Christian involves 1) being intellectually dishonest, 2) being ignorant of the bible (willfully), 3) making false assumptions about atheists, skeptics and agnostics and 4) dodging questions like a game of dodgeball.

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OMG! Now I have to repent of my sins to the holy Jewish Zombie, and offer my brain in utter love for his righteous hunger!

 

....or will Ceiling Cat save me?

 

Damn! Now you'll have to plead with Hans, for his intercessory prayers to reach Ceiling Cat!

 

Hans, could you use your holy connection to the Ceiling Cat above to pray for my pitiful soul? Tell him I offer sacrifices of catnip and belly rubs? :thanks:

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

 

I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

I'm afraid that the definition of Christian involves 1) being intellectually dishonest, 2) being ignorant of the bible (willfully), 3) making false assumptions about atheists, skeptics and agnostics and 4) dodging questions like a game of dodgeball.

 

DOH! I guess I'll be wandering around with my lantern for a long time!

 

Thanks for the link to Evid3nc3's deconversion series. He's the only person I've seen use Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation to point out what people are doing when they attribute happenings to a god. It was a thoughtful and thorough series.

 

Do you know who the "professor" is that he speaks of in the videos?

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<< However, if the entire Bible is to be taken seriously, the death of Jesus doesn’t save anyone.

It’s not even a valid sacrifice for sin. >>

 

 

As a Christian, I mostly stick to New Testament. There it is real clear. How do you expect people to delve in the Old Testament when they have trouble getting thru the New?? New Testament is a lot closer to modern mentality is far more accessible.

This is an interesting point and the truth or falsehood of Christianity rests on it.

 

First, the New Testament relies on the Old Testament in several ways:

 

1. The Messiah concept

2. The God is the same

3. The Christians have claimed that Jesus was prophesied, which relies on the words of the Old Testament and the accuracy of prophecy

4. Jesus is quoted as saying that he would not alter one jot or tiddle of the Law or the Prophets. Many Christians don't even know what the Law is, and they certainly have rejected it even in ignorance.

 

But there are problems with each of these

 

1. The nature of God is quite different in the Old and New Tesaments

2. Prophecy, to those who are honest (and particularly to those who hold God as omniscient), implies predestination.

3. The prophecies are false and taken out of context - and then given entirely new meanings (in one case based on a Greek mistranslation)

4. Jesus did not meet the criteria for being the Messiah (why don't you think the Jews are all converting?). For one thing, the geneologies are purposeless since Joseph was not Jesus' biological father (if you believe crap like that).

 

There are also problems inherent in the literature of the New Testament that make it self-contradictory and false

 

1. Jesus prophecied his return within the lives of those who were standing when he spoke the words

2. Many of the passages were fabricated out of whole cloth to fit supposed prophecies (and they got the details wrong - an ass AND a colt?)

3. The gospels have different accounts with different theologies and contradictory details.

4. The biggest contradictions can be found in the one thing that is supposed to matter - the resurrection.

 

JayL really should look at a book that examines biblical contradictions and inconsistencies, like one by Bart Ehrman for example.

 

But I think JayL is not honestly willing to challenge his faith.

 

And he explained why: Too chicken.

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You guys have a lot of patience. Christians piss me off with their wilful ignorance and condescending attitude.

 

I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

I'm afraid that the definition of Christian involves 1) being intellectually dishonest, 2) being ignorant of the bible (willfully), 3) making false assumptions about atheists, skeptics and agnostics and 4) dodging questions like a game of dodgeball.

 

DOH! I guess I'll be wandering around with my lantern for a long time!

 

Thanks for the link to Evid3nc3's deconversion series. He's the only person I've seen use Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation to point out what people are doing when they attribute happenings to a god. It was a thoughtful and thorough series.

 

Do you know who the "professor" is that he speaks of in the videos?

You'll make a great Diogenes!

 

Evid3nc3 did explain who the professor was in the series, but I don't recall the name. I seem to recall he was a teacher in Spain who had been a theologian until he saw the light - of Diogenes?

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You'll make a great Diogenes!

 

Evid3nc3 did explain who the professor was in the series, but I don't recall the name. I seem to recall he was a teacher in Spain who had been a theologian until he saw the light - of Diogenes?

 

I know he gave the name of a guy the professor studied under who taught him Documentary Hypothesis, but I don't think he gave the prof's name.

 

Oh well. He prob. couldn't get permission to use his name.

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Is this Jay dude not our favorite chinese apologist/evangelist

 

Winwun Soon? :grin:

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Is this Jay dude not our favorite chinese apologist/evangelist

 

Winwun Soon? :grin:

 

 

 

I like that name. Win Won and Soon ! LOL

 

 

Anyhow, I get that feeling that you guys talk to each other a lot. Perhaps I can provide some intellectual diversity.

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Anyhow, I get that feeling that you guys talk to each other a lot. Perhaps I can provide some intellectual diversity.

 

Wow, do I sense some arrogance? First, you claim we DON'T have intellectual diversity? Uh huh. I guess you can't read.

Second, to offer that, you'd have to have an intellect. Sorry.

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<< JayL really should look at a book that examines biblical contradictions and inconsistencies, like one by Bart Ehrman for example. But I think JayL is not honestly willing to challenge his faith.

And he explained why: Too chicken. >>

 

 

I am not a big fan of Bartman. He is too angry. Well perhaps not as angry as Hitchens or some others. But I don't think he has much new to contribute.

 

About being a chicken, well, there is some truth there..

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I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian who knows his/her Bible and doesn't make false assumptions about atheists and skeptics. And, one who doesn't dodge questions.

 

 

Well I want to try to be one. I don't think I dodged too many questions. In some ways, I am brutally honest. I may have picked a few that sounded interesting.

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Yes, run and not address my challenge to PROVE that Jesus is the peaceful man he claims him to be. I'm not even challenging the idea that Muhammed and Islam are hateful. Just prove Jesus is loving, and explain the verses were he is not, including Revelations.

....? Anything?

 

 

 

Jesus is peaceful: He said, 'Those who rise by sword shall fall by the sword."

He was mostly non violent - except to chase money changers out of Temple area.

 

Jesus is loving: He forgave an adulteress. He healed all sick people who came to him. He was very personal with people. Jesus is really a remarkable individual.

 

Verses in Revelation? Well, it is mostly visions. Do you believe in visions by a prophet?

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Jesus is peaceful: He said, 'Those who rise by sword shall fall by the sword."

He was mostly non violent - except to chase money changers out of Temple area.

 

 

Jesus is loving: He forgave an adulteress. He healed all sick people who came to him. He was very personal with people. Jesus is really a remarkable individual.

 

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me." Matt.10:34-38

 

Peaceful? Loving? Maybe remarkable. But for every story, there is this verse.

 

Verses in Revelation? Well, it is mostly visions. Do you believe in visions by a prophet?

 

Not my book. Do you?

 

EDIT: Also, I believe I remember saying that the Gospels are NOT independent, objective histories. But, ok, we'll use them, since there is plenty of proof for both the Peacenik Jesus and the Militant Jesus. No one knows the "Real Jesus", least of all, you.

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Jesus also said to take up your sword.

 

He called a Canaanite woman a dog and only relented to heal her kid after she came up with a clever comeback that impressed him.

 

He frequently got angry at his disciples with little or no warning (Beware the yeast of the Pharisees... BEWARE! WOOOOO! Do you still not understand?)

 

So we can throw away Revelation then? Good, that book sucks.

 

Comparing yourself with Diogenes, eh? Well, you're certainly masturbating in the marketplace.

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Belief does not cost you too much.

 

I challenge you to believe in Santa Clause. Can you do it? If you can't you go to hell.

 

Doesn't cost too much huh?

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I'm just waiting and hoping, kind've like Diogenes, to find an intellectually honest Christian

 

There's an oxymoron...

 

Besides that, you obviously don't know your bible, or you are one those sad people who choose to cherry-pick, only accepting what you like to hear. Jesus was not for peace: he said he came to tear apart families, and told his followers that they must hate their family and their life. Hell, in one verse he even said that he purposely spoke in parables so people wouldn't understand and go to hell (Mark 4:12)! Does that sound like love to you?

 

And of course, the concept of salvation is detestable and illogical. Sending people to a place of eternal torture simply for being born human makes no sense on any level, nor does it make sense that someone has to pay for the actions of another. Love is based on trust, kindness, and understanding, with no room for childish jealousy and dishonesty- Jesus, god, and the rest of your so-called "holy" book go completely against love.

 

And as for the Jesus of the NT's existence, there is no proof. For someone who supposedly attracted so much attention and did so many miracles, it's very odd that only the NT is "proof", and that is hardly proof...The books didn't even come from the supposed authors, the apostles, and the ones from Paul were mostly forgeries, not to mention Paul's description of Jesus was different than the gospels.

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Winwun Soon? :grin:

 

 

 

I like that name. Win Won and Soon ! LOL

 

 

Anyhow, I get that feeling that you guys talk to each other a lot. Perhaps I can provide some intellectual diversity.

 

NO you missed the pun, as for winning here, you have more chance of an immaculate ejaculation with a virgin than winning any debate here.

 

This is not limbo or purgatory or a holding tank for unsure folk, we have dissed your lard and we have not been struck down by lightning or illness as your silly buybull infers.

 

Someone here has a great signature line, how do you kill a god, a dose of logic and critical thinking - simple huh?

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