How Long Before I Get Banned?

[Antlerman]

Its run by fundamentalists. I think they get fearful of people thinking different things to them. I find the site a little oppressive to be honest. I dont contribute much to it at all. I am truly amazed though at some of the thinking represented in it, and thats saying a lot, cause ya all know how I think! I like to go in there and read it from time to time, see what's on offer. I am sure if I wrote in what I really thought of some of the posts I would get the ban hammer. Its not a place of fresh thinking. Having said that, there are some lovely people in there too.

I've come to appreciate that people can be sincere and be lovely people, but just not something I can relate to. The problem really becomes when you grow beyond them, which frankly it sounds like you are, you can never get them to accept you where you are at because they are not in a place that they can incorporate where you are at. If you've grown beyond them, then you can see where they are at. If however they have not grown to where you are at, then they can't see that, and you are a seen as a threat to their way of looking at the world, heretic, someone to burn at the stake, or ban from their website (see my signature line below).

 

So what I find of interest is why you think there is anything there to see ultimately? I mentioned before in another thread where others were talking about Plato's cave and those who emerge from the world of shadows into the light of day. I made some points in there about the problem where for some who emerge from that cave and emerge into the world outside, that what they were getting in that shadowy world on the level of a connection to their sense of connection to themselves and the greater community is not seen or sensed outside in the world of those busily looking at all the wonders on the ground they've never seen before, yet failing to imagine the greater whole in this new light. So with that loss of connection in order to be able to fully emerge from the womb, they turn they eyes back to where it does exist, even if the price to be paid to have it again is to forfeit your growth.

 

I couldn't do it. I don't see how its possible to do it. In much the way the biblical writers expressed this by saying that "those who having once been enlightened and to return, is like a dog returning to his own vomit." That's a valid observation they made for the level of understanding that they had moved to for that time. And now, here today, we too have and are moving to a new understanding. And once we have tasted that, it frankly is impossible to return to the past, even if we imagine it may still hold something for us that we haven't yet found now. It's an illusion, like imagining if we were only six again, life would still be magical like it was back then. But at what price?

 

It's a matter of forging ahead to find what is missing here, in the now, not in the past. It is more than possible. Clearly, they are still all "thinking as a child", and there are limits to what that state of being can offer, to say the least.

[ColorMixer]

I think I have to agree with those who have said that this is low.

 

I'm involved with a secular group, most of us are atheists but there are some Christians who come. We did have one person who claimed agnostic. He outwardly claimed agnostic but admitted to me privately that he was really an atheist but that when he calls himself agnostic that theists are more open to talking with him. He was very adamant about both "sides" coming to agreements instead of each side fighting for their beliefs etc. He seemed to come to the table thinking that atheists were wrong for speaking out against bad press we get.

 

Long story short, he just admitted today that he's actually a theist (not sure if Christian) and has been one the whole time. He said that he was just pretending to be agnostic/atheist the whole time to "prove a point" when he came out and admitted he was a theist.

 

I don't really understand what your intentions are here, but you should be honest about who you are. Misrepresenting yourself to any group/religion/belief/whatever is very low and I lose respect for people who do that.

 

In the end they will lose a lot of respect for you. It will help to reinforce their beliefs that non-believers are people that are just out to persecute them.

[StevoMuso]

I am sure if I wrote in what I really thought of some of the posts I would get the ban hammer. Its not a place of fresh thinking. Having said that, there are some lovely people in there too.

Kathlene - you have the courage to speak your mind and are one of the few Christians I have "met" who is probably honest (and intelligent) enough to become a fine non-judgmental atheist. I, for one, even though I've only been here for a few months, have learned to look forward to your posts.

[Kathlene]

Its run by fundamentalists. I think they get fearful of people thinking different things to them. I find the site a little oppressive to be honest. I dont contribute much to it at all. I am truly amazed though at some of the thinking represented in it, and thats saying a lot, cause ya all know how I think! I like to go in there and read it from time to time, see what's on offer. I am sure if I wrote in what I really thought of some of the posts I would get the ban hammer. Its not a place of fresh thinking. Having said that, there are some lovely people in there too.

I've come to appreciate that people can be sincere and be lovely people, but just not something I can relate to. The problem really becomes when you grow beyond them, which frankly it sounds like you are, you can never get them to accept you where you are at because they are not in a place that they can incorporate where you are at. If you've grown beyond them, then you can see where they are at. If however they have not grown to where you are at, then they can't see that, and you are a seen as a threat to their way of looking at the world, heretic, someone to burn at the stake, or ban from their website (see my signature line below).

 

So what I find of interest is why you think there is anything there to see ultimately? I mentioned before in another thread where others were talking about Plato's cave and those who emerge from the world of shadows into the light of day. I made some points in there about the problem where for some who emerge from that cave and emerge into the world outside, that what they were getting in that shadowy world on the level of a connection to their sense of connection to themselves and the greater community is not seen or sensed outside in the world of those busily looking at all the wonders on the ground they've never seen before, yet failing to imagine the greater whole in this new light. So with that loss of connection in order to be able to fully emerge from the womb, they turn they eyes back to where it does exist, even if the price to be paid to have it again is to forfeit your growth.

 

I couldn't do it. I don't see how its possible to do it. In much the way the biblical writers expressed this by saying that "those who having once been enlightened and to return, is like a dog returning to his own vomit." That's a valid observation they made for the level of understanding that they had moved to for that time. And now, here today, we too have and are moving to a new understanding. And once we have tasted that, it frankly is impossible to return to the past, even if we imagine it may still hold something for us that we haven't yet found now. It's an illusion, like imagining if we were only six again, life would still be magical like it was back then. But at what price?

 

It's a matter of forging ahead to find what is missing here, in the now, not in the past. It is more than possible. Clearly, they are still all "thinking as a child", and there are limits to what that state of being can offer, to say the least.

 

 

I think Antler, this forum site has taught me a lot of things. I have seen for starters how stupidly even christians can fight between themselves. You have to remember though, I am still a christian, so you may wonder why I bother keep going back there. I go there to have some form of connection to see what's happening in the christian world. Some of it amuses me, saddens me, and sometimes I learn from stuff in there. Its not all bad. I just wouldn't rate it all good either, lol.

 

I have certainly found out how fundamental people over in the states can get, how extreme and narrow minded, and this coming out of the mouths of young adults under 30! I think sometimes I see it more as they need time to mature and grow up. Sometimes that will happen, other times not. I often view myself as stuck inbetween two worlds. I love being a christian, but I can see all its faults at times, and think even I can't be accepted in it. Then I also love you guys over here, but I don't always fit in nicely either, cause there are ways of living that I don't gel with in here either. Im stuck!!!

 

Anyhoo, that's where I am at at the moment. Don't panic, Im not about to run out and deconvert again either, lol. I still love God, y'all

[Kathlene]

I am sure if I wrote in what I really thought of some of the posts I would get the ban hammer. Its not a place of fresh thinking. Having said that, there are some lovely people in there too.

Kathlene - you have the courage to speak your mind and are one of the few Christians I have "met" who is probably honest (and intelligent) enough to become a fine non-judgmental atheist. I, for one, even though I've only been here for a few months, have learned to look forward to your posts.

 

 

Why thankyou Stevo, this has surely lifted me up and encouraged me! I had stopped posting for a while because it gets so draining at times. I know people get disappointed that I am not ferociously in there debating back and forward and answering every post. I think I got to the point where I realised I just don't have the answers. I appreciate your words to me, thankyou.

[Antlerman]

So what I find of interest is why you think there is anything there to see ultimately? I mentioned before in another thread where others were talking about Plato's cave and those who emerge from the world of shadows into the light of day. I made some points in there about the problem where for some who emerge from that cave and emerge into the world outside, that what they were getting in that shadowy world on the level of a connection to their sense of connection to themselves and the greater community is not seen or sensed outside in the world of those busily looking at all the wonders on the ground they've never seen before, yet failing to imagine the greater whole in this new light. So with that loss of connection in order to be able to fully emerge from the womb, they turn they eyes back to where it does exist, even if the price to be paid to have it again is to forfeit your growth.

 

I think Antler, this forum site has taught me a lot of things. I have seen for starters how stupidly even christians can fight between themselves. You have to remember though, I am still a christian, so you may wonder why I bother keep going back there. I go there to have some form of connection to see what's happening in the christian world.

Which agrees with my use of the metaphor of the cave of shadows above. Correct?

 

I often view myself as stuck inbetween two worlds. I love being a christian, but I can see all its faults at times, and think even I can't be accepted in it. Then I also love you guys over here, but I don't always fit in nicely either, cause there are ways of living that I don't gel with in here either. Im stuck!!!

 

I also said in that other thread (which you had started) where I had used this metaphor, that it's not simply a choice of one or the other, either a Christian or an Atheist. It comes back to what that metaphor again. You may find some connection with the friends of the past, but you can't really find a home there again. It's too late.

 

At the same token those things you appreciate that you associate with the symbols of your faith, are not finding a home in the world that you also find a need be fulfilled in, there doesn't appear to be an adequate new language to talk about them. You want to have a way to bring both together in a way that doesn't violate the value of either. That is a noble thing that I respect.

 

As I said in the previous post, "It's a matter of forging ahead to find what is missing here, in the now, not in the past. It is more than possible." Though they speak the same words of the language you use, is the meaning really the same to them?

 

You say God, they say God, but at the end of the discussion, how really the same is it? They will after all, ban you for saying your side of things. But you don't ban them for saying theirs. Which also comes back to what I said before about being able to understand where they are at because of having grown beyond it, yet they cannot see where you are at because they have not ever been there.

 

Anyhoo, that's where I am at at the moment. Don't panic, Im not about to run out and deconvert again either, lol. I still love God, y'all

As I observed, you do make it a this or those option. I consider those options as artificial and incomplete. If you were to try to find some label to categorize me, I would say something like transtheist/transatheist would be closer. Neither rejects the other, but integrates them into something that transcends the terms of the argument. Neither is lost, but transformed. And if its a case of being one or the other, then I don't fit in either. But I don't see it as an us or them case. I see it as an everyone case.

 

I find my home here because there is a spirit of openness to discussion, and an interest in possibilities. It gives me freedom, and I would say without doubt the same for everyone here. To ban someone for thinking, is a closed-system, and a limited potential. It's great for identity protection, but does nothing for growth. So...

[Carmen]

After reading your original post again, I think I'd have to agree with others who said this is disrespectful. Though I'd hate to quote the bible here, one of the few actually good ideas in the bible which is still live by is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I would be upset if a Christian came in pretending to be an atheist.

[godlessgrrl]

Paradox - would it be correct to describe what you are doing as deliberately lying to people for your own amusement?

 

If so, is that an ethical act? How do you justify it?

 

If not, how would you describe it?

[★ Citsonga ★]

He said that he was just pretending to be agnostic/atheist the whole time to "prove a point" when he came out and admitted he was a theist.

 

What was the "point" he wanted to prove?

[dB-Paradox]

Paradox - would it be correct to describe what you are doing as deliberately lying to people for your own amusement?

 

If so, is that an ethical act? How do you justify it?

 

If not, how would you describe it?

 

Hi gwen,

 

No, I would not simplify what I am doing by saying it's purely for my own amusement. That does not do justice to what I'm doing. (I'll explain more further down.)

 

Am I deliberately lying to people? Yes, I am deliberately lying to people. Is that morally wrong? Is it an ethical thing to do? If I told you that I am actually 37 years old, and not 36, would that be wrong? If I told you that I actually don't like red meat, even though I had previously said I did, would that be wrong? We get our "lying is wrong" from the Christian teaching. I agree that lying about your tax return has consequences, and it's wrong to lie about that. It's also wrong to tell your partner you're not cheating on him/her when you really are. But to say I'm a Christian when I'm not? And to a bunch of strangers no less! How can that be wrong? Unless you value Jesus and Moses that much. I don't.

 

When trying to determine what's morally right and morally wrong, I ask myself these simple questions. The answers may not be the same for you. But if any of the answers are "yes", I consider them morally wrong.

 

1. Is what I'm doing going to physically, mentally or emotionally harm someone I love?

2. Is what I'm doing going to ruin someone else's reputation?

3. Am I intending on hurting someone, even if I don't know them? Can I be responsible for their reactions?

4. If a loved one did this to me, would I be hurt (physically, mentally or emotionally)?

5. If a total stranger did this to me, would I be hurt (physically, mentally or emotionally)?

6. Is this breaking the law?

 

The answers to the questions above in regards to lying about being a Christian to total strangers on a Christian forum....

 

1. No, because my true alias is not known, even if they were on this Christian forum (although it's extremely doubtful they are).

2. No

3. No and no.

4. Yes (but I'm not doing this to loved ones)

5. No

6. No

 

Now, plug any other scenario in and ask the same questions. Let's say murder...

 

1. Yes

2. N/A

3. Yes and N/A

4. Yes

5. Yes

6. Yes

 

So you see, I have no problems about lying to complete strangers about who I am. I don't see it as morally wrong or unethical. If someone asks you how much you weigh, and you lie by saying 10 pounds less that you realy are, will you lose sleep over it? I don't know, maybe you will. But I won't.

 

Now, as far as why I'm doing this on a Christian forum...I feel hurt by this particular Christian forum, since I was banned for asking hard questions before I deconverted a year ago. I wasn't heard, and no one offered me help. I was extremely frustrated. I tried to log in one day, and lo and behold...BANNED! I guess this is my way of letting out some very old and pent up frustration. But it is funny at the same time. And I don't see anything wrong with that! I'm from Canada, and we have a show called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes". Pure satire! They make fun of politicians, celebrities and anyone else in the media. At least they're doing it publicly, and not behind anyone's back. After all, isn't that like gossip?

 

Anyway, I realize that many still won't like what I'm doing. But I honestly wouldn't be bothered the least but if I got a PM from one of the more prominent members here on this board saying they're actually a Christian, when they pose as an atheist. I just wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[ColorMixer]

He said that he was just pretending to be agnostic/atheist the whole time to "prove a point" when he came out and admitted he was a theist.

 

What was the "point" he wanted to prove?

 

Unknown. He's being a dick about the situation. Now he's apologizing and asking for forgiveness for being dumb or something. I don't really know, he seriously has beef with some guy in the organization. It reminds me of high school.

[ColorMixer]

1. Is what I'm doing going to physically, mentally or emotionally harm someone I love?

2. Is what I'm doing going to ruin someone else's reputation?

3. Am I intending on hurting someone, even if I don't know them? Can I be responsible for their reactions?

4. If a loved one did this to me, would I be hurt (physically, mentally or emotionally)?

5. If a total stranger did this to me, would I be hurt (physically, mentally or emotionally)?

6. Is this breaking the law?

 

I find these questions lacking. Most of them are centered on the identity of the person you would be doing this action to. You appear to justify your actions based on the fact that you do not "love" these people and are seemingly anonymous. I do not find these justifications reasonable.

 

So you see, I have no problems about lying to complete strangers about who I am.

 

Wouldn't you see that as bad thing though? You garner no trust in a relationship like that. You treat people as objects. You really think you aren't going to hurt people when they find out you've been taking them for a ride this whole time?

 

I define lying as purposefully misrepresenting yourself. You could argue that lying is not always morally wrong, but you are purposefully misrepresenting yourself here.

 

I don't see it as morally wrong or unethical. If someone asks you how much you weigh, and you lie by saying 10 pounds less that you realy are, will you lose sleep over it?

 

It may not be important or and wouldn't lose sleep over it, but it's still a lie. I do not need to lose sleep over something to consider it a lie.

 

Now, as far as why I'm doing this on a Christian forum...I feel hurt by this particular Christian forum, since I was banned for asking hard questions before I deconverted a year ago. I wasn't heard, and no one offered me help. I was extremely frustrated. I tried to log in one day, and lo and behold...BANNED! I guess this is my way of letting out some very old and pent up frustration. But it is funny at the same time. And I don't see anything wrong with that! I'm from Canada, and we have a show called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes". Pure satire! They make fun of politicians, celebrities and anyone else in the media. At least they're doing it publicly, and not behind anyone's back. After all, isn't that like gossip?

 

You are justified because you are seeking a sort of revenge? Satire is not the same as someone misrepresenting themselves. If you said "hey I'm here to make fun of Christians", then it would be satire. They of course would not take kindly to it.

 

I think you would do better to turn your frustrations to something more productive.

 

Edit: as a side note, you are making an impression with the people on this forum because of these actions. Perhaps you don't care about your impression to the people on your Christian website, but surely you care about the people here.

[lonelee]

I was going to say the same thing as your edit ^^ Like I said before, how do we know he's not lying HERE?! I'm sorry paradox, but you just aren't making it easy on yourself.

[Kathlene]

I think my main thing about this, is that Paradox, you need to be careful on there. These are peoples lives you are messing around with. This is not some computer that is randomly answering your points and questions, these are people that go onto that forum for questions, guidance, support and help from other christians. Yeah they may be strangers to you, but at the end of the day they are still people with feelings.

 

I tried to have this exact same conversatin, albeit a little differently with a friend of mine who was online dating and couldnt work out why men were almost stalking her on fb and her cell phone. I told her, its not a game. You don't mess around with people's feelings and emotions. You don't have serious conversations with someone, then brush them off, or ignore them and keep on cancelling.

 

Paradox, just be careful.

[Ouroboros]

I haven't said much about this, but perhaps it's time I put some thoughts into it.

 

I agree with Kathleen on this. You're pulling a prank on people who take these things serious.

 

And most forums do take it very seriously too, and usually ends in a banned account (and IP#).

 

So, just for the record, this is not something we support or encourage from the mod-team.

 

We did have a case some time ago, with an atheist/agnostic who used to be a member here, he came back under a new account and pretended to be a Christian. When we discovered it, he was banned.

 

Just FYI.

 

H

[dB-Paradox]

Alright, I understand. If I hadn't have heard it from Kathlene, I might not have cared as much. But I've had a few PM conversations with you, Kath, that I respect and value your opinions.

[Vigile]

I think my main thing about this, is that Paradox, you need to be careful on there. These are peoples lives you are messing around with. This is not some computer that is randomly answering your points and questions, these are people that go onto that forum for questions, guidance, support and help from other christians. Yeah they may be strangers to you, but at the end of the day they are still people with feelings.

 

I tried to have this exact same conversatin, albeit a little differently with a friend of mine who was online dating and couldnt work out why men were almost stalking her on fb and her cell phone. I told her, its not a game. You don't mess around with people's feelings and emotions. You don't have serious conversations with someone, then brush them off, or ignore them and keep on cancelling.

 

Paradox, just be careful.

 

Good post for general internet behavior. I've never really understood the mindset that says you can behave however you want online as it's just the internet. The people behind the words have feelings.

[Antlerman]

If I told you that I actually don't like red meat, even though I had previously said I did, would that be wrong? We get our "lying is wrong" from the Christian teaching. I agree that lying about your tax return has consequences, and it's wrong to lie about that. It's also wrong to tell your partner you're not cheating on him/her when you really are. But to say I'm a Christian when I'm not? And to a bunch of strangers no less! How can that be wrong? Unless you value Jesus and Moses that much. I don't.

I haven't weighed in directly on this misrepresenting oneself on another forum bit yet, even though I was engaged in some dialog in here with Kathleen, but I want to say something. I see others have pointed out some of this already and that you have come to 'see the light', but I want to weigh in on this above that I highlighted.

 

Even though much of our Western values and ethics were instilled into us through the Christian system, they are not Christian-only values, nor originated with them. "Love your neighbor as yourself," predates Jesus going back to Plato and the Greek Philosophers. The Christian system happens to be the vehicle that brought these Greek values to the West because of its ability to embody teachings like this into social systems. Even someone not being raised in a Christian home, having no exposure to a man hanging on a cross or what that means, understands these value by virtue of being part of his own culture.

 

By how you have said what you have above, you have just handed over to those Christian's who fear and loathe atheists, all the power to be justified in saying that if you aren't a Christian, you have no reason to act morally. "Since there is no God in your mind, you can justify any behavior to anyone so long as they don't affect you personally." That's what I just read above, and to me I can see them easily seeing that themselves.

 

To reference the French atheist philosophers such as Sartre, everything you have expressed in what is living insincerely, living in bad faith. If you do not take the other into account, whether they are those you personally know and love, or complete and total strangers, you are not taking yourself into account. You are not living sincerely. As a post-Christian person myself, I very much see everyone interconnected, them with me and me with them. Everything I do has an effect somewhere, and not the least of which to myself. Then from myself it radiates outward to others, then right straight back to me in how I view myself. If I cannot look in the mirror and sincerely say I have show love to others, strangers or otherwise, then I have diminished myself. This principle of living is seen throughout generations and cultures regardless of context.

 

We are highly evolved social animals, and our systems of ethics help define us and further that growth. To treat another as incidental or inconsequential to you is a step in the wrong evolutionary direction. It is frankly one of the main problems I have with the Christian system is that it makes inclusion contingent on membership to the club. You have said the same thing. You will not include those who aren't part of your immediate circle. With that mentality, you diminish the value of others. They are now strangers, enemies, sinners, and any other objectifying label that we can use to view them with other than our fellow human beings.

 

I left the Christian system in no small part because of this, and I sure as hell think that just flipping the coin over to the other side isn't moving beyond it into a more inclusive worldview, one that furthers our individual growth, within ourselves and the whole world itself. It is basically the same point of view, just without the religious symbols. What does it really mean to be Ex-Christian? For me personally it has come to mean Freedom to more moral.

[dB-Paradox]

Sorry, I just had one more thing to add, and then I'll leave the subject alone. If lying is such a moral wrong, unethical, why is abortion seen as okay? Why is it that (the people I've talked to in person anyway) seem to go from pro-life as a Christian to pro-choice as an apostate? How is that somehow more moral? Just curious what people will say. I'm gonna keep reading this post, but will reply via PM on this one, if anyone wishes to discuss further.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Sorry, I just had one more thing to add, and then I'll leave the subject alone. If lying is such a moral wrong, unethical, why is abortion seen as okay? Why is it that (the people I've talked to in person anyway) seem to go from pro-life as a Christian to pro-choice as an apostate? How is that somehow more moral? Just curious what people will say. I'm gonna keep reading this post, but will reply via PM on this one, if anyone wishes to discuss further.

They were only against it because they were christian, but in the closet they were for it. Or they changed their mind. I was pro-life as a christian, and still am. The reason isn't that I think it's a moral issue, but I think that it's an issue of personal responsibility, standing up for a living being that doesn't have a voice yet, though for me, I'm more against using it as birth control.

 

Though I am for abortion in cases of rape, and the person being mentally incapable of having and raising children. Though I do have serious issues with my stance, and am going through it, I still am pro-life, just a bit less so. I arrived at the conclusion on my own.

 

Though perhaps let's not let me derail the thread lol

[Antlerman]

If lying is such a moral wrong, unethical, why is abortion seen as okay?

They are not comparable.

 

Some people don't consider abortion to be a moral question as their understanding of the fetus is that it is not an actual baby, such as you may see represented in billboard adds, all cute and cuddly and talking about its various stages of development in the womb prior to actually looking like that smiling infant on all fours. (Personally I think they should show an actual fetus talking to you, but that wouldn't have the same emotional effect, I'm guessing).

 

You can't make abortion an issue comparable to lying, which is a question of one responsible person in interaction with another person. Abortion is a matter of debate and opinion on what people understand the fetus to be, whether is is a "person" or not, and if it is a medical action or a moral action. Lying however is pretty universally accepted by the majority of people that they are personally offended and injured when they are lied to, tricked, and treated with disrespect. Deceiving is a breach of social and personal trust, and says vastly more about the moral state of the person doing it, then the natures of their targets.

 

It sounds to me like you're just angry and want to justify the ways in which you are seeking to empower yourself over others. Your analogies betray a lack of rationality. To be blunt about it.

[ClaraOlive]

Sorry, I just had one more thing to add, and then I'll leave the subject alone. If lying is such a moral wrong, unethical, why is abortion seen as okay? Why is it that (the people I've talked to in person anyway) seem to go from pro-life as a Christian to pro-choice as an apostate? How is that somehow more moral? Just curious what people will say. I'm gonna keep reading this post, but will reply via PM on this one, if anyone wishes to discuss further.

 

I don't think that lying is an absolute wrong. If you were to choose to keep pretending to be a Christian on a Christian forum because you were angry, I wouldn't label you as a "sinner". It would simply be my choice not to associate with you anymore (that is, to ignore your posts) because I wouldn't consider you trustworthy and would consider you to be someone who does foolish things out of bitterness. But I would consider those personal judgments about how much I wanted to interact with you, and not an absolute moral label that made you a "bad person".

[Vigile]

Meh, just like I believe it's not right to hurt another person I don't believe it's right to tell another person what is moral or immoral (there might be a paradox here); unless we are talking extremes here like pedophilia, et al.

 

If we start moralizing people for telling lies, downloading music, etc... we aren't different from church.

[Antlerman]

Meh, just like I believe it's not right to hurt another person I don't believe it's right to tell another person what is moral or immoral (there might be a paradox here)

I remember saying this to my parents who were teaching me the value systems of our culture so I could be a participant in society. Moralizers....

 

If we start moralizing people for telling lies, downloading music, etc... we aren't different from church.

You think so? Yes we are different from church. We hold each other responsible as fellow members of that society, not hiding behind the name of a god, trying to make him being the one to say "That's fucked up dude". I'm all for the good of post-modernism, but I think to say no one has any right to say anything about anything is foolish. That's my opinion.

[Vigile]

I think it helps a lot when we precurse our statements with "I think."

 

I guess I should also add that I don't think that him posing as a believer is a big deal. It generally seems harmless.