I Am But A Puppet On A String

[lonelee]

So, I had this conversation with a family member just yesterday, and I've had time to stew over it. A lot was said in the hour-long talk on religion, Christianity mainly. But here's one of the major things I took away from the conversation which started to disturb me the more and more I thought about it. First, here's a little background:

 

I initiated a conversation with a family member on religion and how to have faith in something you truly have faith in. I used the example of Santa Claus. One could have faith that Santa exists, but would they really believe? As a side note, I asked how you can love someone you've never actually met. This is how the conversation started.

 

So, near the end of the conversation, I said how I had never really experienced the holy spirit, and this was one of the main reasons I left the faith. Then he said to me, "Can I suggest something?" I said "Sure" and he said "I think you're experiencing the holy spirit right now, with all these questions". He then went on to say that a friend of his felt compelled to pray for me, and that my questioning might be the result of those prayers.

 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I HATE when people suggest that THEIR prayers somehow manipulated my thinking! Or that some holy spirit guided my thoughts, hence the title of this topic. I often wonder if they like being told they thought or did something, not on their own will, but as the direct result of some god basically making them. Although I think they actually DO like that thought ("God used me today"). But I, for one, do NOT like the idea that I thought or did something because I was manipulated into it, or downright forced into it ("God abused me today").

[Shyone]

So, near the end of the conversation, I said how I had never really experienced the holy spirit, and this was one of the main reasons I left the faith. Then he said to me, "Can I suggest something?" I said "Sure" and he said "I think you're experiencing the holy spirit right now, with all these questions". He then went on to say that a friend of his felt compelled to pray for me, and that my questioning might be the result of those prayers.

 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I HATE when people suggest that THEIR prayers somehow manipulated my thinking! Or that some holy spirit guided my thoughts, hence the title of this topic. I often wonder if they like being told they thought or did something, not on their own will, but as the direct result of some god basically making them. Although I think they actually DO like that thought ("God used me today"). But I, for one, do NOT like the idea that I thought or did something because I was manipulated into it, or downright forced into it ("God abused me today").

It's ironic that "questioning" is synonymous with doubt, and therefore the prayers led to your doubt.

 

Prayed you right into atheism, did he?

[Carmen]

So much for their precious free-will. I hate when Christians work very hard for something, achieve it, and then say "It is not by my doing, I give God the glory!"

[dB-Paradox]

I also hate when Christian friends and family tell me they're praying for me, and then try to point out subtle answers to their prayers in things in my life. This kind of behaviour actually pushes people away! Makes me want to stop telling them things.

[Riz]

I swear people are so desperate to feel "useful" that this is the result... "Your questions are a result of my prayers, I HAVE A PURPOSE Thank you Jesus!"

 

Sigh.

[Guest Valk0010]

One christian on here says God is not all powerful

 

I guess he would say we don't have free will either

 

I am beginning to believe more and more that, Christians will do anything to make sure there faith, and by proxy there religious sanity survives.

[ShallowByThyGame]

This is a common tactic to disarm skeptics. Take whatever someone is saying, and make the fact that they are even discussing something the real issue, and not what they are discussing. Your questions are evidence of the holy spirit! OMG! so deep! Or perhaps, so shallow...

 

It is important for the religious to connect events to God so they feel he is a tangible force, so any emotion becomes God reaching out to you, or in some cases, the devil. If they can recast something that upsets them in divine terms, then they can compartmentalize it and relax knowing it's all part of the plan.

[Ouroboros]

So does a complete de-conversion and atheism then equal a full immersion of the Holy Spirit? I mean, I have more questions about Christianity and religion today than ever. All of it is BS, and no one can answer the questions, so does all my questions mean that the Holy Spirit is working through me? I just wonder...

[Crazy Donna]

Saying that your questions were a result of someone else praying for you for the holy spirit to act upon you (manifesting as you having that discussion) is no better than someone telling you what you think. It's just a sexed up version of someone telling you what you think (man I HATE that) because god is apparently involved somehow.

 

Next time this sort of thing comes up, just explain to them that if there IS a god, he has obviously decided to harden your heart against him (just like he did to the Pharaoh in Exodus chapter 7, so that god would have an excuse to punish Egypt with plagues, so there IS a precedent) and that it must have been the holy spirit creating doubt in you so that god would have an excuse to fry you. Because if god loved you, created you, and knew every action and decision and thought you would ever have, why would he create you to ultimately send you to hell? Because either he is a sadistic, evil bastard who is unwilling to change your destiny so that you DON'T end up in Hell, or he doesn't exist. After all, he is the all powerful, all knowing, all present god of abraham, isnt' he? Ultimately he created the doubt in you, so it must be his will that you fry. At least you'll be in good company

[Antlerman]

So, near the end of the conversation, I said how I had never really experienced the holy spirit, and this was one of the main reasons I left the faith. Then he said to me, "Can I suggest something?" I said "Sure" and he said "I think you're experiencing the holy spirit right now, with all these questions". He then went on to say that a friend of his felt compelled to pray for me, and that my questioning might be the result of those prayers.

 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I HATE when people suggest that THEIR prayers somehow manipulated my thinking! Or that some holy spirit guided my thoughts, hence the title of this topic. I often wonder if they like being told they thought or did something, not on their own will, but as the direct result of some god basically making them. Although I think they actually DO like that thought ("God used me today"). But I, for one, do NOT like the idea that I thought or did something because I was manipulated into it, or downright forced into it ("God abused me today").

It's ironic that "questioning" is synonymous with doubt, and therefore the prayers led to your doubt.

 

Prayed you right into atheism, did he?

I think you actually make a good point here. I would respond to this person and say, "That could be, and that my casting off the now moth-ridden coat from our historic past is part of the answer to that prayer; to leave Christianity so I could grow beyond it. Who really are you to say that this isn't better for me, and that it's the outcome in our lives that matters, how freely love moves through us, and not what name you have on your membership card that people substitute for the real thing most of the time." Then quote to them, "By their fruits you shall know them".

 

What you will get is either a "But... but... the Bible says you have to confess Jesus with your mouth" (i.e., be a member of a club through rote initiation and a shirt lapel), or they will actually go home and think about it and maybe find their own prayer for you being answered for themselves through you, and become wiser and more mature people for it.

[OpheliaGinger]

So, near the end of the conversation, I said how I had never really experienced the holy spirit, and this was one of the main reasons I left the faith. Then he said to me, "Can I suggest something?" I said "Sure" and he said "I think you're experiencing the holy spirit right now, with all these questions". He then went on to say that a friend of his felt compelled to pray for me, and that my questioning might be the result of those prayers.

 

I would have stopped him right there and said something blasphemous along the lines of, "The Holy Spirit is nothing more than a cock sucker bitch of Allah." Then, when they say that I under the influence of Satan, I would precede, "Satan is an anal whore for Poseidon."

[Adelice]

Thats a lie my brother , it wasnt the holy spirit , it was Santa Claus itself controlling your toughts - remember he doesnt want you on his naughty list this year

 

Is always easier to place the blame on other being for what one knows that cant do or change - tought i see it more like " the monkey effect " than the " holy effect ".