Ex-Christians Beware, Christ is coming to town

[Checkmate]

Dario, FWIW, I applaud you for endeavor to study the bible. However, like others on this thread, I question both the need and the efficacy of conducting such studies within a seminary setting. You will most assuredly only be indoctrinated to believe that particular seminary's denominational teaching, which is a far cry from the "truth".

 

Such was the reality that compelled me to study the bible on my own. I grew weary of having the same bible verses explained to mean different things by different denominations. And I also didn't buy the argument which said that I had to know Greek and Hebrew to understand. Why would "God" give me his word, but make it impossible for me to understand in MY language? Nonsense!

 

What I suggest you do is set aside all preconceived notions. Put aside all denominational meanderings. Read the bible with a BLANK SLATE. By this I mean reading it through the eyes of a skeptic, not through the rose-colored lenses of "faith". Read the bible just as you would read the Qur'an or the Book of Mormon. Don't read the bible with "God's finger" tipping the scale in "his" favor. Be honest.

 

You've already seen plenty in the bible that has made you question and squirm. And the only reason you have let it go thus far is because you're giving the bible/God the benefit of a doubt at being "correct".

 

But ask yourself this question: Would you be THIS tolerant of any OTHER religious book? Or would you have already chucked the Book of Mormon into the trash as silly nonsense?

 

IF the bible IS the "Holy Book" and "Word of God", then SURELY it can withstand the HONEST appraisal of a seeking skeptic. Can't it?

 

And if it can't withstand this HONEST examination, then does it truly deserve your loyalty?

[Reach]

What I suggest you do is set aside all preconceived notions.  Put aside all denominational meanderings.  Read the bible with a BLANK SLATE.  By this I mean reading it through the eyes of a skeptic, not through the rose-colored lenses of "faith".  Read the bible just as you would read the Qur'an or the Book of Mormon.  Don't read the bible with "God's finger" tipping the scale in "his" favor.  Be honest.

To the best of my ability that's exactly what I did and I got the answers I was looking for. I was sorely disappointed with the answers I got but I got to the heart of the issue.

 

I was after truth, most of all.

[Kryten]

Dario,

Good luck in your search, whichever path you take. But as you remain a believer just keep in mind that there are millions of people who are _______ and have reasons to believe what they do, and are convinced they are right and have the answers. They have experts/apologists who can provide "evidence" and ancient writings, and even stories of miracles to support their position.

 

You can fill in that blank anytime with Hindu/Muslim/Christian/Buddhist/Mormon...

 

What you SHOULD ask yourself is why are you not one of the others? Is it because of where you grew up-- or what your friends or family told you?? Is that how God judges us??

 

If you want to confirm the choice you made is the true and correct one, then you should pay attention to its origin and note any errors, contradictions, broken logic, fruits/history of its believers, and how well it agrees with established truth (such as actual history and science). If you are going to make one of them the FOUNDATION of your life, then you may want to make sure it will hold up against reality.

[Reach]

LOL...My husband said, "You went and studied yourself right into disbelief"... 

Precisely! That's what I meant when I said, Where faith once enabled me, erudition has disabled me.

[Reach]

If you want to confirm the choice you made is the true and correct one, then you should pay attention to its origin and note any errors, contradictions, broken logic, fruits/history of its believers, and how well it agrees with established truth (such as actual history and science).  If you are going to make one of them the FOUNDATION of your life, then you may want to make sure it will hold up against reality.

Yes. Check the fruit of the tree you are seeking to fertilize. Make sure it produces what you want from it. Great advice, Kryten, as usual.

[Kryten]

The DarkSide of the Force has much wisdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Reach and Serenity!

 

Re: Wisdom... The difference between us and the Christians is that we UNDERSTAND both sides, whereas they can only see their side-- and the "dark side" is a clouded mystery to them. Proof is in all the Christians who come here who cannot understand how we were once like them, but are no longer. They are forced to think we never were, or perhaps that we really still are-- but are running from God.

[Clearview]

I have a finite mind, so I will in no way, understand God.

 

Surely you have the ability to recognize what it is that you DO understand, regardless of what others have told you is true.

[Eponymic]

But understand, that from my perspective, I have no idea what God is thinking when such things happen, so I'm not going to question his motives.  I have a finite mind, so I will in no way, understand God. 

 

Just something for you to consider on your journey.

 

I agree as humans we have finite minds, and have yet to fully develop and use our minds to the extent of which is capable.

 

Given that our minds are finite, think about this:

2,000 years ago our knowledge was far inferior to that which we have now (which is still limited). They believe the Earth was flat, etc. etc.

 

Considering their inability to discern many natural truths and their vastly finite knowledge, does it make sense then that the Bible is merely a man made book, containing many positive doctrines, yet isn't a true representation of the essence of God.

 

Since even now we are debating it, disecting it, see constant changes of its meaning & endless interpolations of the proper use of its passages.

[Cerise]

I don't want to get your thread off track, but this just struck me so I'll ask a quick question.  Why would god record that which you were never meant to understand?  Isn't the bible meant to be his communication to humanity?  If it records something that can only be interpreted as "his ways are higher than our ways" isn't this the antithesis of communication? 

 

Does seem kind of odd, doesn't it? Filling random scribes with Holy Spirit in order to send the message to all humankind that they can never understand the message...not exactly the best plan. That's the kind of trick people who put up signs that say "DON'T READ THIS SIGN" would pull.

 

Are we sure the Xian god isn't really Loki in disguise?

[Ouroboros]

Are we sure the Xian god isn't really Loki in disguise?

That's why Gnosticism makes more sense than Christianity. An evil and spiteful God created us, not a good God.

[quicksand]

That's why Gnosticism makes more sense than Christianity. An evil and spiteful God created us, not a good God.

And, a hell of alot more positive about the human condition, unlike Anthasian and later Calvin that thought man was damned from the beginning and god as some kind of prosecutor. At least men sin only in error and the demiruge only created this poor sinful world in error.

[Amethyst]

That explains why my gecko hides in her cave all day! It's got nothing to do with her being nocturnal. She must be afraid of Christ because she's an animal with no soul. Who'da thunk it?

 

[Fweethawt]

Fwee, this response is to you since I think it was you that made the response about Creed.  I have been a Creed fan for quite some time and I would put myself up against any Creed fan anyday to see who is the bigger fan.  I listened to Creed religiously. (Is that like putting other gods before God?  Oops)  And about the Alter Bridge Cd, I bought it when it first debuted.  Then my wife bought me concert tickets where we waited in line for 4 hours to see them in Cleveland.  And then something amazing happened, almost better than the return of Jesus will be.  The band stepped off of their tour bus and came over to talk with us.  Let me tell you I pissed my pants cuz this was something I have always dreamed of.  Anyway, thats just a little about me and my infatuation with Creed/Alter Bridge.

 

Well, I don't exactly have an "infatuation" with Creed, but I do admire Mark Tremonti for his skill and how much he has grown as a guitar player within his relatively short career.

 

I SHOOK MARK TREMONTIS HAND!!  Gives me chills just thinking about it.

Dude! That gave me chills just reading it.

 

Also, I'd like to let everyone here know that I will be graciously accepting donations from anyone here that would like to see me be able to afford to go and buy (at least 3) tickets to the 3 Doors Down/Shinedown/Alter Bridge concert that is coming to Youngstown, OH.

 

The tickets go on sale tomorrow, so please, look deep into your heart and give as much as the Lord tells you.

 

 

j/k

[Fweethawt]

I am studying the bible in-depth right now. 

                                            Brian Dario

 

As Mr. Grinch suggested, it would be within your best interest, especially if you are looking for truth, to read the bible with a "clean slate" and NO preconceptions that you have been taught or indoctrinated into accepting.

 

My suggestion, coupled with Mr. Grinch's, would be to read the bible at FACE-VALUE before you do your in-depth study. What I mean by that is, read the bible exactly as it is without trying to "interpret" it, or twist what it says into a defense of the bible itself.

 

If you get to a part where it doesn't make any sense and you find that your mind is taking off in different directions trying to understand it, STOP RIGHT THERE, and READ-IT-OUT-LOUD to yourself in order to force yourself to understand it EXACTLY AS IT IS WRITTEN.

[Clergicide]

I'm only in Duetoronomy(sp?),

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is my second favorite book, right after Leviticus. Both chapters are the bulk of the laws of Moses. That is the covenant with man that is 'supposed' to be everlasting. Keep this in mind as you read, those aren't just stories, those are Gods laws to his people, they are requests he is ordering of his faithful.

[Ouroboros]

As Mr. Grinch suggested, it would be within your best interest, especially if you are looking for truth, to read the bible with a "clean slate" and NO preconseptions that you have been taught or indoctrinated into accepting.

 

My suggestion, coupled with Mr. Grinch's, would be to read the bible at FACE-VALUE before you do your in-depth study. What I mean by that is, read the bible exactly as it is without trying to "interpret" it, or twist what it says into a defense of the bible itself.

 

If you get to a part where it doesn't make any sense and you find that your mind is taking off in different directions trying to understand it, STOP RIGHT THERE, and READ-IT-OUT-LOUD to yourself in order to force yourself to understand it EXACTLY AS IT IS WRITTEN.

Agree. If the Bible is confused or in conflict with itself, why should you try to find excuses for God, when God supposedly wrote the book, and God is thought to be perfect.

[Brother Jeff]

Brother Dario, I'll just echo others here and say again that if you want to remain a Christian believer, then do NOT study the Bible or its origins or history. Education is the natural enemy of religious belief.

 

I SHOOK MARK TREMONTIS HAND!!  Gives me chills just thinking about it.

 

I'm not familiar with Creed and I don't know Brother Mark, but back in the 80's during my fanatic fundie days, I was a huge Mylon LeFevre & Broken Heart fan. I attended East Texas Baptist University in Marshall, TX in 1985-86, and I saw Brother Mylon in concert in nearby Lousyana. I went backstage for prayer after an AWESOME concert because the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him magically convicted me of doing some shit that pissed Him off or something (okay, it was an excuse to maybe meet Mylon or one of the band members), and Mylon actually was there! I said something like, "That was fun! Glory!" (referring to the concert, obviously), and Brother Mylon shook my hand and said, "Yeah, it was! Praze GAWD!!" Okay, he didn't say "Praze GAWD" and I didn't say "Glory!", but the rest is accurate, I believe. Anyway, I haven't washed my hand since then, and that was 20 years ago or so! Glory! Well, yes, I have washed my hand, but I haven't forgotten about getting to meet Mylon briefly and shake his hand, and I probably never will! I met my favorite Christian Rock star when I was about 20 years old, and I shook his hand! That would be like me meeting Angus Young of AC/DC now and shaking his hand. It would be awesome to meet Brother Yanni, too. I like all kinds of music! These things you just don't forget!

[Lunar Shadow]

As Mr. Grinch suggested, it would be within your best interest, especially if you are looking for truth, to read the bible with a "clean slate" and NO preconceptions that you have been taught or indoctrinated into accepting.

 

 

 

I dunno if I agree with that Fwee I was doing an indepth study when I found my way out. I would say it is becasue of that in depth study I am out. I remember reading the bible and thinking to myself (as a Christian) "this is not defendable at all, What that hell am I doing?" and the final nail in the coofin for me was reading up on the formation of the cannon at that point my jaw hit the floor and I am like WTF!!!????

 

but all is good not I am free and at peace

[Lunar Shadow]

The reason I am starting this post is to get opinions on something.  You see, I'm debating whether or not to go to Seminary to study the bible, obviously.  And well, I've been out of school for 3 years because I got suspended my freshman year, so I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.  The reason I want to go is because I want to learn more about the bible, both internally and externally.  I want to read other books about Christianity and try and figure this whole "thing" out.  I have a desire to want to learn more about my faith and what I believe in.  So my question is to the people on this site that have been to Seminary or some school like that.  Could you tell me about it?  I know thats a very broad question, but I want to know what I would be getting into.  Now, I'm not looking for responses that will dispute my beliefs.  Just opinions on Seminary and the learning process.  If any of you could help me out with this, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

                                                      Brian Dario

 

 

Hey Dario,

 

I would say save your money there is pleanty you can learn in depth on your own... I did consider going to seminary myself becasue I wanted to do in-depth study but I decided against it due to the fact that I knew that I would not get a unbias view I knew I couldn't get that espeacially where I could go cheap ( the school my father is professor at). So I went and looked at the Christian articles then I would read the counter for them and then I would go back and read the Christian counter and so on and so on.... I started to notice that the non-christian writters were coming out on top EVERY FREAKIN' time.. this is my own experiance but as I have told you before... Your path is your own no one can tell you where to go all they can do is show you the door.

 

 

P.S.  Anyone a Creed fan in here?  Just wondering.

 

 

yeah you know I am down (for the earlier stuff)

[Fweethawt]

I dunno if I agree with that Fwee I was doing an indepth study when I found my way out. I would say it is becasue of that in depth study I am out. I remember reading the bible and thinking to myself (as a Christian) "this is not defendable at all, What that hell am I doing?" and the final nail in the coofin for me was reading up on the formation of the cannon at that point my jaw hit the floor and I am like WTF!!!????

 

but all is good not I am free and at peace     

 

When I said to read it with a clean slate and no preconceptions, what I meant was for him to allow himself to read, and hear the words as if he is reading/hearing it for the very first time.

 

A simple example of this would be, as he is reading Genesis 1 and seeing that it is stated that man and woman are created at the same time, and then getting to Genesis 2 where it states that man was created first without a woman.

 

Actually, even though I hate to say this, Genesis one sounds really cool when you read it. Anything after that though, and my bullshit-meter starts blowin' steam.

[EdwardAbbey]

First off I want to apologize for the cheesy topic title.  I had to put something that would get a lot of peoples attention.  The reason I am starting this post is to get opinions on something.  You see, I'm debating whether or not to go to Seminary to study the bible, obviously. 

                                                      Brian Dario

 

P.S.  Anyone a Creed fan in here?  Just wondering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can save yourself a lot of money if you just forget about going to some school/college to learn/study the bible when you can just read it for yourself with an open and critical/objective mind and before you know it you'll probably become an atheist like many have after reading that rediculous book.

[Lunar Shadow]

When I said to read it with a clean slate and no preconceptions, what I meant was for him to allow himself to read, and hear the words as if he is reading/hearing it for the very first time.

 

 

 

 

point taken Fwee but I will still respectfully disagree

 

A simple example of this would be, as he is reading Genesis 1 and seeing that it is stated that man and woman are created at the same time, and then getting to Genesis 2 where it states that man was created first without a woman.

 

Yeah I love that one and the apologist defense for it

 

Actually, even though I hate to say this, Genesis one sounds really cool when you read it. Anything after that though, and my bullshit-meter starts blowin' steam.

 

seriously after Gen 1 the pile starts to steam

[Fweethawt]

point taken Fwee but I will still respectfully disagree

 

Oh no you won't!

 

I will continue to harp on your ass until you have completely switched over to my train of thought.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Oh no you won't!

 

I will continue to harp on your ass until you have completely switched over to my train of thought.

 

 

       

 

oh yes I will

Na na na na na na!!!!

[Fweethawt]

oh yes I will

Oh yes you will. That's right. Yes, you will be converted.