Ex-Mennonite

[Ichabod]

Hello,

 

Newbie here. I found this site surfing around looking for support for Ex-Mennonites. Couldn't find any.

 

I was born into a closed Mennonite Community in PA. My journey away from the Mennonite Church began with my birth I think. I always thought Mennonitism was a crock, even though I wore the clothes and briefly in my teens took the Church Communion, which for those of you not familiar with Mennonitism means I not only said the prayer, but shunned the world, met all the requirements, etc. Mennonites do not practice open communion, if you take communion that means you are on the inside, a member. The Mennonite comunion has little to do with the blood and body of Christ and everything to do with church discipline.

 

My life has been hell. I realize that in a world where people are hungry and living without shelter that that is a bold and incredibly narcisitic thing to say. My life has been hell psychologically would probably be more correct. But if I said it was all psychological I would be lieing. When I was almost a teen my Father beat me with his hand till I was black and blue from the middle of my back down to the back of my knees for not properly cowtowing to the "teacher"(barely out of her teens herself) at the community church school I was sent to. And that was only one of many beatings. I grew up around violent discipline. Some of my earliest memories of my father involve violence. If I wasn't getting a beating I was seeing my siblings getting beat, which was also damaging to the siblings seeing it take place.

 

I'm digressing, but that particular beating was probably the worst because it happened just as I was reaching puberty and already having the normal issues with my changing body and my changing role in the world. That beating more than any other scarred me emotionally. I crawled into a fantasy world of my own from which I have never recovered, but where I could be safe and the world could be a nice place -- but if I left anybody into it they would mock me for being dreamy and weird. I'll never forget taking my clothes off and looking at my back in the mirror the next day and the terror of seeing the physical evidence. And my father was a decent man. He was a Mennonite Bishop, and he would not have his childern go "wrong" no matter what. He really believed that beating his childern into wimpering, cowering, shaking, obedient, selfless kids was the way to make them good Christians.

 

Whenever I hear people say how wonderful the Mennonites are, so peaceful and kind and humble. It makes me go bonkers. I have visited some other websites where ex amish and ex mennonites have told their stories only to have non amish and non mennonites comment back that it can't be true, it's made up because the mennonites that they know are such kind people. It's frustrating. Mennonites, Amish, and Fundamenalist Mormons get a free pass in the American media, possibly because they look so nice in their "plain" clothes and possibly becuase it's in human nature to want to believe that there is a simple, good life out there if you just shun the evil modern world. What a load of rubbish. In the Mennonite Community that I grew up in incest was rampid. When ex mennonit/amish say things like that they always get accused of being bitter and dishonest because of their personal bad experiences, and then get told by non menno/amish people that on the whole mennos/amish are just sweet non violent people who are pacifists and it simply can't be true. It makes springs stick out of my head when I hear that, or when I hear liberals on TV saying that in today's tolerate society surely we can make room for polygamy and arranged (child?) marriage for the Mormons for religious reasons. They have no idea what it is they are endorsing. Just because a person is meek and mild in public doesnt mean they don't get violent when they think eternal damnation is at stake. I am not making this up. It is documented. Some of the incest I know of first hand (although it didn't involve me or my family directly.) Nor am I talking about cousin/cousin marriages which are common and accepted in menno/amish comunities. There is some seriously screwed up teenagers (and adults) in the mennonite/amish communties. But I'm rambling.

 

I am a 43 year old loner, despite having two college degrees (one from a non-accredited, fundamentalist Babtist "University"), actually it is suprising how well a person can hide out in Universities. The experience of getting the degrees, although a huge step for me, didn't exactly magicly make me fit into with the real world. I have been unable to open up enough to anybody to have a real friendship, all my friendships have been work or school related and extremely superficial. Even people who try to reach out to me I push away and keep at arms length. Although I have made progress with things like conversation I still am easily intimated and freeze up around anybody whom I precieve as an authority figure, whether I want to not. Although heterosexual, I have never been able to have a successful, adult relationship with a woman, possibly due to the experiences with the Sisters who taught me in school. Many people just assume that I am gay, which doesn't help the pain any. It is somewhat comforting to know that the group of boys that I grew up with also had problems with girlfriends. But that's another story.

 

I am the youngest of 4 boys all of which left the mennonite community and crashed and burned. The oldest doing the best after not marrying well and for many years being a weekend drunk, the next dieing while young in a motorcycle accident while unemployed, the next in and out of mental hospitals, (in fact I am the only boy that lived into adulthood that didn't pursue professional help), my two sisters hiding out in quiet desperation in loveless mennonite marriages, my father dead, a broken man because all his boys went "wrong", and the church essentially silenced him, my mother a recluse because the church community blames her for losing her boys to the "world." And they say religion is a wonderful thing -- the peace that passeth all understanding. yeah right.

 

I could go on and on. I could write a book the length of In Search of Lost Time.

 

It would be nice to find someone else who has had experiences like mine who is not either in denial about it, or purposely lacking in self-awareness, or on the internet trying to turn their experiences into a celebrity vehicle because of America's fascination/love affair with the "plain" religions. That's what brought me here. Looking for that. And I have rambled on. I don't know that anyone will read this. And few could make it all the way through. Sometimes I feel like the Anthony Hopkins character in the Remains of the Day just can't break out and be free no matter what.

 

Few people know what it's like to be 18 years old and intimidated by the ordering process at a McDonalds, or to see TV and not know the difference between the commercials and the tv program, or to hear Aerosmith sing about the "best kind of lovein' is a sister and a cousin" and not realize that they are not being serious, to not understand even basic pop cultural references, to having always been stared at in public, to have been taught that the non mennonite world is an evil place full of evil people, that your choice in life is the mennonite way or a knife in your back in an alley behind a bar room to be followed by eternal damnation, to realize that if you leave your religion you are also leaving you social life, family life, and economic well being behind you. I don't know of anyone who has left the plain mennonite church who hasn't hit a brick wall. The ones that do it successfully are the ones who move to more and more liberal churches till they are essentially non-practicing Mennonites but still mostly living in the community. That's the path I didn't take. A path not really open to someone who has always considered themselves agnostic.

 

It is interesting that the Amish churches act as feeder groups to the Mennonite churches (as young couples chaff under the rules and go Mennonite) and the plainer Mennonite churches act as feeder groups to the more liberal Mennonite churches and the childern of the liberal mennonite churches finally walk free into main stream society. But my god, there is a lot of train wrecks on the side tracks.

[Carmen]

This is horrible. All I can say is that I am so sorry, and my heart goes out to you. I never, never knew these kinds of things went on in Mennonite communities. Though I wasn't raised Mennonite, my heritage is Mennonite, and I had always taken some pride in the thought that my ancestors were peace-loving. I could have never imagined a story like yours. I hope this site will be a help to you, I know it has been for me and a lot of other people.

[Dagan]

Welcome! I hope you find a place here.

 

I believe you. I'm from a Mennonite Brethren background, so a lot more evangelical than what you described. But I know the "traditional" Mennonite communities suffer from lots of horrible stuff.

 

Glad you made it out.

[lunaticheathen]

I've honestly never heard a story like yours, but I believe you. My mom knew some mennonites, and said nothing but great things about them, but she also believed I worshiped the devil at one point. So, she can be wrong, or mislead easily.

But who thinks fundy mormons are alright? Seriously, fuck them sideways. I don't have a problem who marries who CONSENSUALLY, but children? Sick bastards.

I hope you find this site helpful, though I haven't come across any other ex-mennonites or ex-amish. We're all still ex-christians, and there's common threads with all fundy stripes. Like the oppression of women, and the idea that this world is "evil." Mennonites are likely more vehement about the latter, but more than one person here has encountered that silly fucking attitude.

Anyway, welcome to ex-c!

[Overcame Faith]

So sorry you went through all of that. It is evident that the scars run deep. You said that you were the only one of the four boys in your family who reached adulthood and did not seek professional help. Maybe you should consider changing that. Perhaps you could find a non-Christian counselor who could help you recover from your childhood trauma and begin living a better life as an adult. There's no shame in seeking help. You are every bit as traumatized as someone who fought on the worst battlefield. Maybe more so since a lot of what happened to you was when you were a child.

 

Welcome to Exchristian. You have friends here.

[Shyone]

I believe we have had (at least) two ex-mennonites. I don't know if they are currently active. (go to the members section and search for "mennonite" or other words likely to be in their profile, and you might also look at the general messages for testimonials with the word "mennonite").

 

You encountered the two things that make religion almost impossible without a lot of self-deception: Knowledge and empathy. Knowing the suffering of others, and feeling their pain, makes shunning them painful, even if that's what you are "supposed to do."

 

Welcome to Ex-C, and we look forward to your insight.

[ShallowByThyGame]

Your story turns my stomach. I've bought bread from mennonites at the farmer's market and now I feel guilty lol. Is your father's behavior typical, or do you think he was extra zealous? Can you talk about how you realized the way you grew up was wrong? How you left?

 

I hope you will find some comfort in telling your story.

 

If you are comfortable telling your story, I am curious if you would be interested in discussing your upbringing on a non-support site because it is more interesting than a typical deconversion tale in my opinion.

 

Well, I think you'd be supported in most places anyway given the tragic nature, but I often frequent Reddit's 'Ask Me Anything', and some people might find your story fascinating as you have inside information on a culture that few people know about, although some people there might take the side of Mennonite apologists which I understand may not be what you want to deal with. However you can reach a wider audience there if you are interested in exposing the dark side of that culture. If the site perplexes you I can give you some pointers. If you're not interested that is fine, this site is a safe place to discuss your thoughts and many of us have been stung by the damaging delusions of religion.

[Phanta]

Hi! I read through your piece. There is, indeed, a prevalent romantic view out there of the "plain peoples". That perception being so starkly contrary to your personal experience must add an extra layer of loneliness. I'm so sorry for what you've been through.

 

I second the suggestion to try out some of R. S. Martin's posts. Her About Us page, which I've linked to, gives a little bit of her background with the Mennonite church. She's also got a link to her testimony of deconversion in there.

 

Welcome.

 

Phanta

[StevoMuso]

Welcome to ExC - I read your entire story with fascination. I had no idea that these societies still existed in our "modern" world. The child abuse, as always, is what horrifies me the most. Children ... why is it always the children who get so hurt? It may be because they are the only hope those communities have of keeping themselves going, and internal children are prime targets because rational adults would NEVER allow themselves to become indoctrinated by the obvious cult-ish nature of Mennonite dogma.

 

Nothing we say can bring you any kind of comfort, Ichabod, but I reflect the thoughts of the others by saying we are glad you made it out and found us here.

 

Have you considered writing a book? The truth about the Mennonites. It may be therapeutic for you to "get it all out in the open" and expose those child-abusing monsters for who they really are. (Just a thought)

[HRDWarrior]

Hello and welcome to the site, thank you for sharing your story.

 

Where i grew up (rural Wisconsin) we had a lot of Amish, and a few Mennonites in the area. Although a lot of people saw them as "peaceful" and "kind," we actually got to know some of the families and I could see that things were not as perfect as the image presented to the rest of the world. That, and being a horse and animal loving person, I often saw their animals grossly mistreated - and I don't mean being made to work and not pampered, I mean literally starving with huge gaping sores where the harness rubbed them raw over old scars, and them standing tied in the blazing sun at 90+ degrees at the Walmart parking lot with no water and covered in sweat, while their plow horses were plump and healthy (since they weren't as discard-able). In my opinion, anyone who could do that to an animal would be more than willing to beat a child to make them obey. I also witnessed Amish beating their horses and other animals on occasion - and literal beatings leaving the animal covered in life-long scars, not giving a naughty horse a smack on the rump with a whip. Big difference.

 

Of course, not every single family was that way, but I would say over half of them were. There were a few who claimed to be horse trainers and some friends made the mistake of sending a horse there, only to have it come back terrified if anyone moved with (again) nasty cuts all over its back. The Mennonite communities were much smaller, so had less impact, but in any group when the women are that controlled, I'm sure there's a reason for it...

 

So, while I have not had personal experience in those types of communities, I can definitely believe everything you are saying from my limited contact.

 

Actually a lot of fundamentalist christians borderline on being just as bad, other than they can use more electronic equipment/technology. In fact, in my family we weren't much better off other than we had a car, owned a TV (but my parents removed the antennae, so no television to watch, only approved movies), and had a computer (again, very regulated though). But my mother has been shunned by all the churches in her area who believe even close to what she does because she finally divorced her abusive husband (who literally threatened to kill her - and had the means and ability to carry out that threat), because it was her "duty" to stay with him.

 

Sorry, got off track, but welcome, and I hope you can find some of the support you are seeking!

[dB-Paradox]

I am from a Mennonite family also. My wife and I got married in the Mennonite church she attended from birth (born Saturday, in church Sunday kind of thing!). Her parents are not physically abusive, but sure can dish out the verbal punishment, in a kind/cruel way. My biological father was also from a Mennonite background, or so I'm told. He was physically abusive (again, so I'm told). He went to prison for rape when I was only 3 years old. But I guess I may have carried some of the emotional baggage right on through to my adult years from his abuse to me as a baby.

 

One thing I really hate about Mennonites is how proud they are. "Oh, look at me and how much money I have" or "Look at my brand new fancy car I just paid cash for" or worse yet "Oh, look how good and humble I am in the sight of the Lord"! It's all BS! I'm so glad I didn't turn out a traditional Mennonite! I can hardly even speak a word of German! Ha! Down here, the Hutterites are even worse! All driving around in their super long van, inter-breeding and wearing their stupid same clothes all the time (maybe that's what the Mennonites are like in places, too, I don't know).

 

Anyway, sorry to hear about the super stupid crap you had to go through. That's just aweful. Welcome here and glad you're getting free!

[Franko47]

I live in a community with quite a number of Mennonites (they even have a civic committee in my town; although I prefer to call it a "mafia") and while modern liberal "Mennos" seem OK, I'm always wary of cloistered religious "communes" that wish to shelter themselves from the "big bad world".

[Galien]

Big hug for you Ichabod. I'm sad for you that your upbringing has had such a devastating effect on you. Mine had done too, violence for different reasons then cult involvement and overwhelming religious guilt and anxiety. I could never escape into a fantasy world, raw nastiness is in my face unfortunately. Sounds like your siblings have had their lives wrecked too.

 

Life sucks at times, but I have finally worked out at almost 50 that I deserve better. The way my family taught me to treat myself like shit has plagued me my whole life. I found a counsellor four years ago who helped retrain me to treat myself with the self respect my parents should have taught me. It's hard to know that ones' parents cared more about being right than they did about us, and the lengths they would go to for control. Its wrong and it never really stops hurting on one level or another.

 

I have tried so hard not to inflict that on my own children. I did for a while with my eldest, but was able to nip it in the bud. No point doing to another what was done to me.

 

I hope you meet a lovely soft hearted lady who will hold you through your journey. I hope you are able to become more trusting but I know how hard that is too, like a wound that never really heals over, you are constantly wondering when the next untrustworthy person will rip the scab off.

 

I hope this site is a help to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lunaticheathen]

Where i grew up (rural Wisconsin) we had a lot of Amish, and a few Mennonites in the area. Although a lot of people saw them as "peaceful" and "kind," we actually got to know some of the families and I could see that things were not as perfect as the image presented to the rest of the world. That, and being a horse and animal loving person, I often saw their animals grossly mistreated - and I don't mean being made to work and not pampered, I mean literally starving with huge gaping sores where the harness rubbed them raw over old scars, and them standing tied in the blazing sun at 90+ degrees at the Walmart parking lot with no water and covered in sweat, while their plow horses were plump and healthy (since they weren't as discard-able). In my opinion, anyone who could do that to an animal would be more than willing to beat a child to make them obey. I also witnessed Amish beating their horses and other animals on occasion - and literal beatings leaving the animal covered in life-long scars, not giving a naughty horse a smack on the rump with a whip. Big difference.

 

Holy fucksticks, not ever having lived around the Amish, I did not know this. If I had witnessed such a thing, I would have wailed the shit outta those assholes treating horses (or any living being) that way! Sounds like the "man having dominion" bullshit taken to a whole insane fuckin level, and would have ended in me stealing their fucking cart horses. Then beating the fucks with a bullwhip.

This makes me insane - there is no good reason to abuse animals, and people like that are certainly more inclined to abuse children. I personally don't see any fucking difference.

What the FUCK is WRONG with people???

[Ichabod]

I never, never knew these kinds of things went on in Mennonite communities.

 

See, that is the thing. Why does that suprise you? The people that make up the Mennonite communities are the same people that make up the general population. Religion doesn't change anybody. That fact that you are suprised means you have drunk the Koolade that makes people think that religion magicly changes people. It doesn't. If I said I was beaten by a working class father in Brooklyn, that would make the story more believeable? Why? It's all the same people just wearing different clothes.

 

Though I wasn't raised Mennonite, my heritage is Mennonite, and I had always taken some pride in the thought that my ancestors were peace-loving.

 

As well you should. There is much to be proud of in Mennonite History. But again, there is much to be proud of in complete secularist history as well. The presence of religion makes no difference. Mennonites have oppose (at least theoretically) a lot of the same issues that liberal intellectuals have opposed in American History e.g. slavery, war, proverty.

 

I could have never imagined a story like yours.

 

I am embarrassed that I posted that, and am ashamed to even reread it. It is full of self pity, hyperbole, and sensational language. The very thing I hate about other people's stories that I have read, most recently, Lost Boy by Brent Jeffs, a story very similiar to mine, both of us being born into the "ruling" class of the community. Both my father and my grandfather were bishops and a great uncle was a minister. When my older brothers and myself went "wrong" one of the sons of my father's brother was made minister and, oddly, got impatient and split the church before he could be made Bishop. Like the Jeffs, there was a power struggle between our families, though we lived cheek to jowl. But I digress.

 

I stand by what I said. I really was black and blue from the "spanking." I really was "spanked" a couple of times and not told the reason why (while still a preschooler.) I really did see my siblings violently "spanked." I really do know of numerous incest cases, etc. But I do not stand by my language or self pity. I was feeling down in the dumps when I posted that. Which is somewhat unusual for me. Being of good German stock I rarely get overly excited or overly depressed, just kind of an ongoing morose even keel.

[Ichabod]

Welcome! I hope you find a place here.

 

I believe you. I'm from a Mennonite Brethren background, so a lot more evangelical than what you described. But I know the "traditional" Mennonite communities suffer from lots of horrible stuff.

 

Thank you. The general population just can not wrap their heads around the idea that such "simple", "plain" folk can be just as troubled as the city slickers. When we went out in public it was not unusual to have non-mennonite people (fashionable people, as we called them) uh and ah to my parents, or each other, over the pretty, clean-cut, rosey-cheeked childern. What a beautiful family, and so quiet and well behaved -- if only the whole world could be so good and pure. Occasionaly, non-mennonite people would even inquire into adopting the life style.

 

Glad you made it out.

 

Thank you, but a person never really makes it out. It is your personal narrative. You can never escape it. It is your past that explains who you are today. If your internal narrative breaks down and you can no longer satisfactorily explain to yourself why you are who you are -- you've got problems. If that made any sense. Fortunately, most people never have to contemplate those sorts of issues, at least no overtly.

[Ichabod]

So sorry you went through all of that. It is evident that the scars run deep. You said that you were the only one of the four boys in your family who reached adulthood and did not seek professional help. Maybe you should consider changing that. Perhaps you could find a non-Christian counselor who could help you recover from your childhood trauma and begin living a better life as an adult. There's no shame in seeking help.

 

Thank you. No, I don't really think there is any shame in that. However, I don't really think that a paid for friend (a shrink) is a whole better than an imaginery friend (Jesus). The help my brothers got was pretty helpless. Both were on prescription drugs for a time, but kicked them to go on and lead relatively stable lives, at least one did. I don't communicate with either of them much anymore. One is quite a bit older and left home while I was still young. I don't know him that well. And the other went into hard-right-wing politics with his whole soul and being, which makes our relationship strained. My two sisters stayed in the church. Although the church does not overtly practice shunning as many old-order mennos/amish do, our lifestyles are so different and the distrust so deep that it is insurmountable. But I digress.

 

You are every bit as traumatized as someone who fought on the worst battlefield. Maybe more so since a lot of what happened to you was when you were a child.

 

Thank you for your understanding and kind words. But no, I completely dissagree. I would not even begin to compare my experiences with someone who has seen battle. I think that would be grossly unfair to them.

[Ichabod]

But who thinks fundy mormons are alright? Seriously, fuck them sideways. I don't have a problem who marries who CONSENSUALLY, but children?

 

Apparently a lot West Texans think they are alright. The prosecution had original hard copies of documents documenting underage marriage in the Texas community and they still could not get a case to court. No one had the political guts. When the law rescued the kids and confiscated evidence there was outrage in the national media. There was an excellent article in Texas Monthly about the case. There is a strong, right-wing libertarian streak in Utah, Arizona, and Texas that thinks people should do what ever they want. Plus the Mormons are very good at PR. They look so good and humble on TV. All those bad things just can't be true. Let them alone. But all of that has nothing to do with me or the relatively tame by comparison Mennos.

[Dagan]

 

Glad you made it out.

 

Thank you, but a person never really makes it out. It is your personal narrative. You can never escape it. It is your past that explains who you are today. If your internal narrative breaks down and you can no longer satisfactorily explain to yourself why you are who you are -- you've got problems. If that made any sense. Fortunately, most people never have to contemplate those sorts of issues, at least no overtly.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm still struggling with it myself. Some days are better than others. Some are really, really bad. The only thing sometimes that keeps me going is knowing there are people who love me, and also that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

Time to start writing our own stories, on our own terms, with our own characters, settings and we'll use whatever goddamn colourful metaphors we want!

[Ichabod]

Your story turns my stomach. I've bought bread from mennonites at the farmer's market and now I feel guilty lol.

 

Don't feel quilty about buying their homemade bread - it's great. My story while true in detail, was way over the top and needlessly sensational. Enjoy the bread. It's provinence is probably much more wholesome in every way than the bread that comes from Monsanto or any other huge, ruthless agro-corp that is impoverishing rural areas and polluting the world for quick profit. As in any religion there are many people who are a part of it who love it. They are happy. Wouldn't dream of leaving. They love to hide out from the real world. And are at peace with themselves and rarely if ever question right or wrong. Other people obviously have a different reaction to it. It is they who are tormented and misearable. I suppose it is similiar to those people who choose military life. They like it that hard decisions are made for them, like were to live, how to dress, who to socialize with. Some peole thrive in authoritarian communities.

 

Is your father's behavior typical, or do you think he was extra zealous?

 

He was extra zealous, being part of the ministry. However, violent corporal punishment is commonly used even on small childern. But it should be pointed out that this was common practice a few decades ago, particularly among lower class Applachians. And Mennonites are not known for quickly adopting new ideas. And like any other group of random people, there are some sickos that revel in the opportunity to indulge themselves. I knew of a few of those cases. However, that did not describe my father. He genuinely felt that what he did was right. And there is no doubt in my mind that if he read this he would fall to pieces and probably beg my forgiveness. It is the power of religion to destroy and debase otherwise decent people. Before he died he told my mother that he had made a lot of mistakes with his boys, and she relayed it to us, but he never gave any details as to what he thought the mistakes were. (I recently read Crazy for God by Francis' Schaffer's boy. He suggests that perhaps properly administrated corporal punish is to be prefered over the psychological munipulation often used on young kids.)

 

Can you talk about how you realized the way you grew up was wrong?

 

I don't know that it was really "wrong." It was probably right for some people. I don't know. That's a difficult question. Beating kids is obviously wrong, but that was common in the secular world not so long ago. And sexual funkiness is not exactly the sole domain of religious orders, although authortarianism and isolation from the larger world seem to foster it. For me I think the awakening came when I got older and started to come into contact with the non-Mennonite world. I began to see that what I was told about them just didn't make sense. I mean, come on, non-Mennos became doctors and lawyers, and I saw fathers who had relatively good relationships with their sons. Non mennonites just couldn't be all bad and accomplish those things and lead such successful lives. It became self-evident that being non-mennonite didnt always lead to vicious behavior and damnation. The Mennonites obviously didn't produce many great doctors or engineers. How come? I started to ponder those sorts of things.

 

How you left?

 

No big story there; I don't think. Anyone can leave, but it is very hard. And there are few success stories. With the advent of the Christian School movement among the mennos (which the Mennos adopted when the consolidation of the public school system began in the 1940s-50s) it is very, very hard to leave becuase the kids are so isolated from the outside world, which they find terrorising. Both of my parents went to public schools, but it was the one-room-school variety, and because it was in a large mennonite area the majority of the kids were Menno, although the teacher was non mennonite. This was satisfactory for the menno comunity. After WWII that all changed, and the menno private schools were started (most of which are godawfull and should be shut down by the State). Since the birth of the private schools the Mennonite communities have started to grow quickly because they are successfully keeping their childern "in the fold" because their ability to leave "the fold" is severely limited. Two of my mother's brothers completely left the mennonite community when they were teenagers and waltzed right into the non mennonite world, marrying and haveing very successful careers. Those days are past for the "plain" menno kids of today. But I digress. Actually, after my older brothers left the church and crashed and burned my parents more or less supported me in my desire for higher education, even though that meant leaving. It's kind of complicated; they didn't fight my leaving, but they didn't give me their blessing either which isn't easy for a teenager to deal with. When you are told weepingly, "Go. Go, but what you are doing is wrong." That's an emotional roller coaster for a a teen when you are just trying to better yourself. So I left to go to a conservative baptist university. Again, very confusing for a teen. These baptists I met were off their rockers religious nuts, but to the community I left they were "worldly" and unsaved. It's confusing. But I don't know that there is any great escape story. It's not like that. I didn't jump over any barbed wire fence late at night -- actually that may have been easier.

 

I hope you will find some comfort in telling your story.

 

If you are comfortable telling your story, I am curious if you would be interested in discussing your upbringing on a non-support site because it is more interesting than a typical deconversion tale in my opinion.

 

Thanks. I generally tell no one of my past. One of the reasons I feel I have to keep people at arms length is becuase I don't want to have to say what my past is and that I have never been married (or cohabited) -- revealing either of those instantly, dramacticly changes the nature of the conversation and usually stops it dead in its tracks and leads to akward silence. You would be suprised how often I have to act dumb and try and play along in conversation that includes references to movies, music, movies, or life experiences that everyone my age has seen, experiences, and take for granted but I am clueless about. There are so many "empty" spots like that in my "history." I generally dont tell anyone becuase I learnt early on that if I did I would get hammered with the oddest questions (even from people like conservatvie baptists who should know better.) People assume the oddist things about me, for example if I say I have a plain Mennonite background people call me "the mennonite guy" and assume that I am still a mennonite like a jew is still a jew even if they are not a part of the jewish religion. It is very uncomfortable and frustrating. And than people started analyzing my behaviour to spot the evidence of the odd background. After I told a fellow i worked with at a part job I worked in college that I was an ex-mennonite he said oh it all makes sense now, the simple blue jeans and white t shirts you always wear -- all of which of course are forbidden by hard line mennonites. And than hardest of all, "well, what do the mennonites believe?" I don't know. Most Mennonites don't know. Theology and systemic thought is not their strong point. It's primarily about life style and church doctrine. And church doctrine varies widely even within mennonite communities. Every little group of churches has their own unique rules and regulations. People don't understand. It's not like the Catholics. There is no central command structure. Every one is expected to have their own relationship with God and Bible, which usually boils down to making a lot of money and displaying it in a humble way. But I digress. I suppose online would be different. I don't know that it's all that interesting.

[Ichabod]

Have you considered writing a book? The truth about the Mennonites. It may be therapeutic for you to "get it all out in the open" and expose those child-abusing monsters for who they really are. (Just a thought)

 

I wish I could write like John Updike, or like Thomas Wolfe in Look Homeward, Angel - and tell the story of my family over a couple generations. I think my father in particular was a tragic and deeply flawed character that only Shakespeare could do justice to -- life cast my father in a role for which he was uniquely unqualified for -- and the results where tragic. Then there was my skinny bald headed Uncle who looked like Gandhi riding his bicycle in and out of town. There is just a lot of bizarre colorful characters that only an isolated community can produce in such plumage. Perhaps only the isolation of Faulkner's South could produce so much excess of American Gothic.

[Ichabod]

The Mennonite communities were much smaller, so had less impact, but in any group when the women are that controlled, I'm sure there's a reason for it...

 

It seems all fundy groups have control of women in common. It is interesting in the mennonite churches to look at who made the rules and who wears the funny clothes. Most of the mennonite men, except for when they are on their way to and from church, can blend in with the working class pretty well, but the women have to wear the get-up 7 days a week.

 

Actually a lot of fundamentalist christians borderline on being just as bad,

 

Yes, I discovered that during my time spent at the fundy baptist university. Some hardcore Baptist and Assembly of God "refugees" have a lot in common with my experiences. But they still do not flamboyantly isolate themselves from the "world" for many generations and purposely dress in clothing styles carried down from 18th Century Germany. There is a world of difference in that respect. And in respect to carrying arms and doing political and legal battle against "corruption" in the State. Most other fundy groups can't wait to go to war. A world of difference there.

 

Sorry, got off track, but welcome, and I hope you can find some of the support you are seeking!

 

No, please go off track. Mennonites don't have a monopoly on religious craziness. I read an excellent biography of Jimmy Swaggart (Assembly of God), forget the title of it, but I haven't enjoyed a book as much as I did that one in a long time. The turns that religous fundamentalism has taken in American over the centuries is fascinating.

[Ichabod]

One thing I really hate about Mennonites is how proud they are.

 

"I thank God for my humility." I think that's a Shakespearean line from Richard III.

 

"Oh, look at me and how much money I have"

 

A menno boy who was in my grade in school was made a millioniare in his 30s when his father's farm was sold to developers. What really gets me is when they say how much God has blessed them and their hard faithful work and clean living lifestyle because now they are wealthy. It's BS. They are wealthy because by sheer dumb luck they happen to own farm land near growing residential areas that is worth millions to developers. Boy that gets me mad. God has not blessed you because you've been evil.

 

or "Look at my brand new fancy car I just paid cash for"

 

It is ok to own an $80,000 cadillac - if it's black; but worldly to own a red $500 VW Bug.

 

I can hardly even speak a word of German!

 

Es macht mir spass deutsch zu learnen.

[Ichabod]

Big hug for you Ichabod. I'm sad for you that your upbringing has had such a devastating effect on you. Mine had done too, violence for different reasons then cult involvement and overwhelming religious guilt and anxiety. I could never escape into a fantasy world, raw nastiness is in my face unfortunately. Sounds like your siblings have had their lives wrecked too.

 

Yes, it left a lot of wreckage. But so has a lot of secular families. And I don't want to make it all bad. Compared to some childern I had an idyllic childhood. Sure there was the beatings, and cold, unaffectionate parents, and other screwed up issues. But I got to grow up in a rural area, spent all day outside everyday in the summertime from dawn till dusk, was well fed on home grown food, bathed every saturdaynight if I needn't it or not, got a lot of excersize, was taught good work ethics which have served me well, my parents never fought in front of us kids. It wasn't all bad. But, to be honest, I think I would trade all of that for some parental love and affection.

 

Life sucks at times,

 

Yes, but at other times its pretty awesome. Considering the pain in the world, I suspect that you and I got off lucky.

 

It's hard to know that ones' parents cared more about being right than they did about us,

 

I have been there. My father, being in the ministry, cared more about the Church than he did his family. He repeatedly made terrible decisions about his family becuase he had to to be a leader in the church.

 

I hope you meet a lovely soft hearted lady who will hold you through your journey. I hope you are able to become more trusting but I know how hard that is too, like a wound that never really heals over, you are constantly wondering when the next untrustworthy person will rip the scab off.

 

I hope this site is a help to you

 

Thank you for your kind words. I have been plagued by crushing self-doubt all my life and guilt over helping in the destroying of my parents lives. Sometimes I think my father was a saint (in his church work he probably was) and at other times I think I should drive the 1800 miles home to his grave and spit on it. I can't seem to have a trusting relationship with anyone. When trust is broken with your parents when you are still a very small child it leaves scars that just won't heal. And I have no reason to feel this way. I live a pretty good life, have two college degrees (BA & BS, not as brainy as it sounds), make a pretty good living, drive an expensive car that most single guys would love to own, live in an upscale urban apartment (having sold my house). But to the community that I left (and often in my own mind) I'm still scheisse.

 

It reminds me of a story I heard Garrison Kiellor tell about childern who leave small town religious backgrounds to go off and lead strange lives in big cities trying to meet people on Craig's List.

[Overcame Faith]

It is the power of religion to destroy and debase otherwise decent people.

 

Ichabod, you wrote the above quote when writing about your father. These words are so true. If otherwise good people truly believe that god would have them act in a way that is morally reprehensible, some of them would actually commit the morrally reprehensible act. The problem with Christianity is that there are examples of it in the bible which Christians view as being good, but that I, now that I have shed Christianity from my life, see as horrifying. One example is Abraham's willingness to kill his son simply because he thought there was a god telling him to do it. And Christians praise Abraham because it showed his great "faith" in god and Christians strive to live up to this sick standard.

 

What I think I hear you saying is that your father was a good man but was influenced by religion to commit bad acts that, absent the religious influence, he never would have done. Perhaps this could be a basis upon which you can eventually come to terms with your father's actions and thereby begin to rebuild your life. The "good man" within your father thought that obedience to religious doctrine was the ultimate good, even though I'll bet that deep within himself he hated what he was doing to you and the others in your family. What he really did wrong was not allowing his moral compass to overrule his religious dogma.

 

But the bright spot is now that you see the religion for what it is, you can take the good part of your father's heritage that he passed on to you and cultivate it and be the kind of man that he would have been had he not been blinded by his religion.