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Goodbye Jesus

REPENT and Return to Jesus


Guest evreos

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Like it or not, but that IS your religion.  Why are you busting a fellow brother in Christ's chops?  :grin:

 

What, don't you know? This "brother" of course isn't a True Christian™!!!111!!!

 

:lmao:

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Ok explain to me how someone who has never seen colors in her life could know what orange looks like? :scratch:

Er...I think she said "orange blossoms", not "orange" blossoms. In other words, she was describing the shape, not the color.

 

 

Maybe I am revealing my ignorance, but since when is orange a shape??

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Maybe it was orange-the-fruit-tree blossoms?

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Anesthesiologist Dr. Gerald Woerlee on the Pam Reynolds case:

 

http://www.mortalminds.org/reynolds.html

 

Pam's NDE is perfectly explainable in naturalistic terms.

 

From the link given above:

 

"Pam Reynolds reported initially undergoing an out of body experience during this operation, after which she underwent a tunnel and light experience during which she entered heaven and interacted with deceased family members. During her out of body experience, she found herself floating above her body, and was able to accurately describe all she saw and heard in the operating theater. The time period during which these experiences occurred was accurately given by her statement:

 

Someone said something about my veins and arteries being very small. I believe it was a female voice and that it was Dr. Murray, but I'm not sure. She was the cardiologist. I remember thinking that I should have told her about that ... (1)

 

She was not on cardiac bypass at the time of her out of body experience, because the cardiothoracic surgeon was having trouble introducing the cardiac bypass machine tubing into the blood vessels of her right groin - they were too small for the size of the tubing and the blood flow needed for cardiac bypass. So the cardiothoracic surgeon eventually used the blood vessels in her left groin (1). This means that at this time she had a normal body temperature, and the normal responses of a paralyzed person who was supposedly under general anesthesia. And I say "supposedly under general anesthesia", because what she described was a typical period of conscious awareness under general anesthesia. This is something familiar to all anesthesiologists, and is an event that all anesthesiologists try to prevent. She felt no pain, but was clearly able to able to hear and describe what happened to her. How was this possible?

 

* She felt no pain because of the effects of powerful painkilling drugs.

* She was unable to move, breathe, or speak, because all the muscles of her body were paralyzed by a muscle paralyzing drug. So she was attached to a respirator which performed her breathing through a tube inserted into her windpipe.

* She was conscious because the concentrations of drugs used to keep her unconscious were quite evidently insufficient to do so. However these drugs did calm her, as well as caused her to interpret her bodily sensations in an abnormal manner.

 

The ways in which the functioning of the body can generate clear out of body experiences during general anesthesia and other states of consciousness is extensively described in the book "Mortal Minds" (2). No immortal and separate mind is required, the functioning of the mechanisms of the body can generate all aspects of these experiences."

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Guest Iconoclastic1
Return to Jesus while you're still alive, once you die there is no more repentance available.

 

***snip a bunch of fallacious, fearmongering, whiney bullshit***

 

May you turn around and embrace the loving arms of your creator, Jesus the Christ

 

story.jpg

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That's an interesting article, Brother Jeff. And the doctor brings up some good points, but it doesn't explain everything. For example, how was she able to describe the instrument that was sawing into her skull, assuming her eyes were closed the whole time?

 

I still think that this phenomenon, whatever it is, warrants more scientific investigation rather than just being written off as mere hallucination.

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Maybe I am revealing my ignorance, but since when is orange a shape??

It's not...but an orange blossom is shaped...well, like a blossom.

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If hell were an actually existed, all the "I had a near death experience and saw hell" stories would describe hell in a similar way wouldn't they?

 

Yet I've heard one experience describe hell as a place of fiery tubes of misery that float above the earth, and another that describes hell as a pitch black dark place where the voices of angry men are heard. I didn't bother reading this guy's story, so I don't know how it describes hell. Nor do I care.

 

I think this person is just filling his/her/its "Great Commission" quota. Ie: "I don't really care at all about these people, so I'll just post this and piss off, and God will reward me."

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Ok explain to me how someone who has never seen colors in her life could know what orange looks like?  :scratch:

Er...I think she said "orange blossoms", not "orange" blossoms.  In other words, she was describing the shape, not the color.

 

Ok I see. It's a bit ambiguous.

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That's an interesting article, Brother Jeff.  And the doctor brings up some good points, but it doesn't explain everything.  For example, how was she able to describe the instrument that was sawing into her skull, assuming her eyes were closed the whole time?

 

I still think that this phenomenon, whatever it is, warrants more scientific investigation rather than just being written off as mere hallucination.

 

 

Contrary to popular belief, eyes are not always closed when you are put under anesthesia. This is why if you have ever had surgery you may remember waking up with greasy petrolatum in your eyes. They do that to keep your eyes from drying out.

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Ok I see. It's a bit ambiguous.

 

Yeah, I had to read it a couple of times, too.

 

Love your nick and avatar, by the way. Spaceballs is one of my all-time favorite movies.

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Contrary to popular belief, eyes are not always closed when you are put under anesthesia.  This is why if you have ever had surgery you may remember waking up with greasy petrolatum in your eyes.  They do that to keep your eyes from drying out.

Actually, I found someone who claims to know that Pam's eyes were taped shut. Whether this is true or not is unknown to me. I don't know how this person came by the information. But you can read it at the bottom of this page, which also contains an interesting e-mail exchange between Dr. Woerlee and the creator of the Near-Death.com website.

 

Additionally, you can find a critique of Dr. Woerlee's book (which I have now read the preface and first chapter of) at this website, which was written, admittedly, by a proponent of NDEs.

 

Interestingly enough, I have the TV on right now, and the episode of Unsolved Mysteries with Howard Storm's NDE just came on.

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I think this person is just filling his/her/its "Great Commission" quota.  Ie: "I don't really care at all about these people, so I'll just post this and piss off, and God will reward me."

You nailed it exactly. Insincerity is the hallmark of the evangelical. It's about them, not us.

 

Regarding so-called "NDE" experiences, the most telling is that the religious symbols always reflect the person's culture. Wouldn't it be amazing if a devout Catholic on the table were not to see the Holy Virgin, but instead saw a great big blue Krishna? Or a dying Hindu seeing a crucified Jesus with Renaissance artwork surrounding him? Hot diggity, now that might say something about the experiences being about a possible objective reality outside the beholder, rather then just being an obvious subjective experience!

 

I agree NDE’s are worth some scientific study, but it’s a long, long, loooonnnnggggg way to them being any sort of validatation of religious mythologies! What it does reveal, is peoples’ strong desires to justify their beliefs in unprovable myths.

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I agree NDE’s are worth some scientific study, but it’s a long, long, loooonnnnggggg way to them being any sort of validatation of religious mythologies! What it does reveal, is peoples’ strong desires to justify their beliefs in unprovable myths.

That is something I can completely agree with. In fact, I believe that NDEs may eventually lead to the disproof of all religious myths.

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I agree NDE’s are worth some scientific study, but it’s a long, long, loooonnnnggggg way to them being any sort of validatation of religious mythologies! What it does reveal, is peoples’ strong desires to justify their beliefs in unprovable myths.

That is something I can completely agree with. In fact, I believe that NDEs may eventually lead to the disproof of all religious myths.

Unfortunately what would most likely happen is that once we understood it, they would quietly forget about using it as proof of their beliefs in the supernatural, and then just move onto to the next unexplained mystery. After all, he's the God of the Gaps, ever and always changing residence in the holes of ignorance.

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Well, hopefully it will at least take care of the hateful and repressive parts of the religions. One can always dream, right? ;)

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What bums me a bit is the fact that right after my dad died I had a great reunion dream with him, and he told me he was ok. Probably just a vivid dream like a NDE is.

 

Sorry about that. I have had dreams about my mother, but they were more like nightmares than comforting dreams.

 

Ok explain to me how someone who has never seen colors in her life could know what orange looks like?

 

You could say it is a bright color, usually the color of the setting sun. But yeah, it'd be difficult.

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That's an interesting article, Brother Jeff. And the doctor brings up some good points, but it doesn't explain everything. For example, how was she able to describe the instrument that was sawing into her skull, assuming her eyes were closed the whole time?

 

I still think that this phenomenon, whatever it is, warrants more scientific investigation rather than just being written off as mere hallucination.

 

There is a theory that human consciousness may not entirely exist within the physical mind, but so far, it hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

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There is a theory that human consciousness may not entirely exist within the physical mind, but so far, it hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yeah, I've heard about that. It compares the brain to a radio that receives signals. It's an interesting theory, and one we'll probably never prove unless we were to find the source of this signal.

 

By the way, a thought just occured to me. I hope no one thinks I'm defending evreos's post or even his point of view. As a matter of fact, in my first post to this thread, I blasted him for misrepresenting Howard Storm's NDE.

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Repent Christian repent, join the great army of Kaless, All hail General Kaless and his benevolent Regime.

 

That is not logical. *raises eyebrow* Why would you believe such a thing, when Vulcan philosophy is more logical?

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Pfff. Your Klingons and Vulcans have nothing on the twin majesties that are...

 

The Autobots and Decepticons!

 

They could take on the Klingons, Vulcans, and Jesus! And win! And besides, from what I hear, Optimus Prime is pretty popular in the afterlife. They even keep a room ready for him and everything. :lmao:

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Hah! Your Autobots and Decepticons could never stand up to...

 

SON GOKU!

 

He could beat them and Superman and God up without even breaking a sweat!

 

(Is it just me, or did this thread just get waaaayyy off topic? :lmao::scratch: )

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Please. Son Goku used fat Buu as a punching bag. Kid Buu was a lot closer to Son Goku in strength. Son Goku had to resort to using a Genki Dama (Spirit Bomb) to destroy him.

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But....... If you like Autobots and Decpticons then why are you General Grevious? Surly Prime is better than Grevious.

 

Illogical! fasinating.

 

Sure, Prime is better than Grievous. But he's no match for him in terms of sheeeeer sexiness :wicked:

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Sure, Prime is better than Grievous. But he's no match for him in terms of sheeeeer sexiness :wicked:

 

Yeah! All that coughing, hacking, and wheezing is a real turn-on. :wicked:

 

 

:HaHa:

 

 

He is a really cool character though.

He was pretty enjoyable to watch in his few moments of the movie. :woohoo:

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