Vigile Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 In my response to our spammer today this thought came to mind. God is ominipotent right? It means he can do anything. So why is it that he can't save me even after I reject his offering of salvation? Why only one simple path to salvation? Pan forward into the future. I'm judged for being the heathen dirtbag that I am and cast into the fiery pits forever and ever. As I tumble down in all my weeping and teeth gnashing horror I cry out to god, God! please have mercy on me!!!!" And then god says, nope. Sorry, it's too late. I offered you salvation and you rejected it. Nothing I can do for you now buddy. What??? Nothing he can do for me? Why not? He's god. He's all powerful. He can do anything. And, if he forgoes this omnipotence of his and lets me burn forever and ever he becomes an evil monster, of the likes the world has never known. He lets me suffer and burn without hope when he COULD have done something. If he can't, then he is not all powerful and the story you believe is bullshit. Which is it? God is not all powerful or god is evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I've honestly never been too interested in debating God's omnipotence/omniscience, whatever. It's an interesting start, but there are arguments that have way more solid answers. Omnipotence/omniscience debates tend to eventually spiral into a series of cop-outs and rationalizations and leads to much unproductive bickering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 I've honestly never been too interested in debating God's omnipotence/omniscience, whatever. It's an interesting start, but there are arguments that have way more solid answers. Omnipotence/omniscience debates tend to eventually spiral into a series of cop-outs and rationalizations and leads to much unproductive bickering. But just like eating chips and watching the Sunday game, unproductive time can still be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 So why is it that he can't save me even after I reject his offering of salvation? Why only one simple path to salvation? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you look at Church as a business it should be quite clear why salvation in the afterlife isn't part of the product portfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Omnipotence/omniscience debates tend to eventually spiral into a series of cop-outs and rationalizations and leads to much unproductive bickering. I agree. I think their greatest value might be to some of the Christian readers, those who choose not to actively participate; that group may find themselves with some food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest queen annie Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 So why is it that he can't save me even after I reject his offering of salvation? Why only one simple path to salvation? Pan forward into the future. I'm judged for being the heathen dirtbag that I am and cast into the fiery pits forever and ever. As I tumble down in all my weeping and teeth gnashing horror I cry out to god, God! please have mercy on me!!!!" And then god says, nope. Sorry, it's too late. I offered you salvation and you rejected it. Nothing I can do for you now buddy. What??? Nothing he can do for me? Why not? He's god. He's all powerful. He can do anything. And, if he forgoes this omnipotence of his and lets me burn forever and ever he becomes an evil monster, of the likes the world has never known. He lets me suffer and burn without hope when he COULD have done something. If he can't, then he is not all powerful and the story you believe is bullshit. Where did you hear such nonsense? Surely you don't believe a word of it? Which is it? God is not all powerful or god is evil? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> christians are wrong. That's the root cause of the whole mess. Just because they use a name and tote bibles around, going to church on their so-called sabbath--doesn't mean they know shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I've honestly never been too interested in debating God's omnipotence/omniscience, whatever. It's an interesting start, but there are arguments that have way more solid answers. Omnipotence/omniscience debates tend to eventually spiral into a series of cop-outs and rationalizations and leads to much unproductive bickering. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ditto. There are usually hypothical situations. I am more interested debating about the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 In my response to our spammer today this thought came to mind. God is ominipotent right? It means he can do anything. So why is it that he can't save me even after I reject his offering of salvation? Why only one simple path to salvation? Pan forward into the future. I'm judged for being the heathen dirtbag that I am and cast into the fiery pits forever and ever. As I tumble down in all my weeping and teeth gnashing horror I cry out to god, God! please have mercy on me!!!!" And then god says, nope. Sorry, it's too late. I offered you salvation and you rejected it. Nothing I can do for you now buddy. What??? Nothing he can do for me? Why not? He's god. He's all powerful. He can do anything. And, if he forgoes this omnipotence of his and lets me burn forever and ever he becomes an evil monster, of the likes the world has never known. He lets me suffer and burn without hope when he COULD have done something. If he can't, then he is not all powerful and the story you believe is bullshit. Which is it? God is not all powerful or god is evil? You know, this is almost exactly what my roomie has been stuck on for years. He had a bloody mental breakdown over this shit, and after nearly sixteen years, he still can't give it up. Honestly. This very argument is practically the reason Christianity doesn't work. If God is All Knowing, then letting all of suffering and shit happen means God is also a sick motherfucker. If God isn't All Knowing, which is why bad things happen, then He isn't God. Trust me. We can have this discussion on a regular basis and he'll never get over his need to have a spiritual slave driver. Asking this of any Christian is bound to give you a massive headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 Where did you hear such nonsense? Surely you don't believe a word of it? Every Sunday and Wednesday for the first 25 years of my life. Do I believe it? I believe this is what christians believe. I'm an atheist. I think all of it's crap. I'm merely pointing out the logical improbabilities. christians are wrong. That's the root cause of the whole mess. Just because they use a name and tote bibles around, going to church on their so-called sabbath--doesn't mean they know shit. So you have the Truth about god at your disposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 So you have the Truth about god at your disposal? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *snicker*...how lucky, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 In my response to our spammer today this thought came to mind. God is ominipotent right? It means he can do anything. So why is it that he can't save me even after I reject his offering of salvation? Why only one simple path to salvation? Pan forward into the future. I'm judged for being the heathen dirtbag that I am and cast into the fiery pits forever and ever. As I tumble down in all my weeping and teeth gnashing horror I cry out to god, God! please have mercy on me!!!!" And then god says, nope. Sorry, it's too late. I offered you salvation and you rejected it. Nothing I can do for you now buddy. What??? Nothing he can do for me? Why not? He's god. He's all powerful. He can do anything. And, if he forgoes this omnipotence of his and lets me burn forever and ever he becomes an evil monster, of the likes the world has never known. He lets me suffer and burn without hope when he COULD have done something. If he can't, then he is not all powerful and the story you believe is bullshit. Which is it? God is not all powerful or god is evil? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree....this is another dum thing about xtianity...it makes no sense... Usually when xtians get into this, a whole host of other things come up along with it. I swear they make it up as they go along...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What??? Nothing he can do for me? Why not? He's god. He's all powerful. He can do anything. Of course He can save your sorry behind. But oh, oh you didn't even believe He existed. And, if he forgoes this omnipotence of his and lets me burn forever and ever he becomes an evil monster, of the likes the world has never known. He lets me suffer and burn without hope when he COULD have done something. He's being loving. He gave you a choice. Choose! If he can't, then he is not all powerful and the story you believe is bullshit. Which is it? God is not all powerful or god is evil? Not powerful. Just loving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 He's being loving. He gave you a choice. Choose! Okay. I've been trying to stay out of these discussions, but I simply MUST chime in on this bit. A choice? God has given us a CHOICE? "Love me or else"? WTF kind of "choice" is this? THAT is terrorism! If I've got to choose between loving someone who has a loaded gun pointed at my head, and having my head blown off for NOT loving this same person, do I REALLY have a "choice"? Not if I want to live! You Christians slay me! How is YOUR religious terrorism any better or different than the Muslims? Oh, I know! Muslims threaten to kill you TODAY, while Jehovah threatens to kill AND torture you in the future. Some choice. Tell me, pug. Have you ever read Kissing Hank's Ass? I highly recommend it. Great parody and fully on point. Go read that and then tell me again about how much "sense" it makes to have this free "choice" to "choose" to love god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Pug, you completely sidestepped the question in the OP. Do you have no answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Not powerful. Just loving. OH.....HOW.....ACK!!! Pug, I did wonder, now you have confirmed it. You don't worship a supreme being at all! You are worshiping an idealized mirror image of yourself! You bow to your own ego! The very idea of putting limitations of ANY kind on a supposedly supreme being is insulting basic intelligence. Even other christians would smack you upside the head for this statement. You say god is not powerful.......yeeeeaaah. Uh-huh. That makes sense. Why don't you just stick your biblegod in the antiquated hall o' mythology along with all the other flawed greek and egyptian gods. I much prefer believing in a true supreme being god without really knowing what the plan is, if there is one. Rather than a limited super-human I might eventually mistake as myself given enough self-aggrandizement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Of course He can save your sorry behind. But oh, oh you didn't even believe He existed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The problem I have with this statement, and understand, its one of the reasons I rejected the christian myth, can be sumed up in one question. Why is it that God is only willing to save me if I believe in and worship him? Think of it like this, if you saw a man hanging from the edge of a cliff, and it was obvious he could not pull himself up, his only chance of being saved was if you helped him. Would you help him without question or would you first say, "well I'll pull you up, but only if you promise to be my slave and worship me for the rest of your life" Well would you say that? Indeed you would probably think that someone who did such a thing was a dispicable person. Why then is the standard for good and evil totally oposite for God? Can you answer that? God does the same thing, according to christians, and he is called wonderful savior Yes I'm sorry, I will never understand that kind of nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Not powerful. Just loving. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Are you saying you embrace process theology? (the belief that god is not all powerful, and indeed is in a process of changing and growing just as we are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 God is ominipotent right? It means he can do anything.... And then god says, nope. Sorry, it's too late. I offered you salvation and you rejected it. Nothing I can do for you now buddy. It's at this point I like to switch it up. Right as God is supposed to throw us all in hell he adds "but since I'm all loving, merciful and compassionate I will simply forgive you all." This really seems to get xtians panties in a bunch. I start getting lectured about justice and rightousness and everything else. I tell them that us unbelievers truly are the lowest as we don't have God and so we require God's mercy, love and compassion far more than they ever would. Their arrogance simple doesn't like this answer. They require the "justice" of hell the god they proclaim to believe in wouldn't. They should really read up on the prodigal son and be happy God is accepting us back into the fold (but they stayed the whole time doesn't that mean more?). You could try asking them to ask God to let everyone out of hell once we're there. I tried this and the answers I got were along the lines of justice, I asked for it, it's not up to them (or they can't question god) and everything but the one that shows true compassion and that would be to ask god for our forgiveness and release. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Think of it like this, if you saw a man hanging from the edge of a cliff, and it was obvious he could not pull himself up, his only chance of being saved was if you helped him. Would you help him without question or would you first say, "well I'll pull you up, but only if you promise to be my slave and worship me for the rest of your life" Nice Kuro. *thumbs up* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hey, how come Saul of Tarsus (Paul) gets a break? According to the narrative in Acts, Saul held the jackets for the dudes who stoned Stephen. And, (according to the narrative) Saul was on a rampage to hunt down christians and persecute em. But God says, nope. I got plans for ya, dude. So Saul gets a special revelation, and gets taken up to the third heaven, and gets all kind of special treatment. Now, I've never killed anybody. Would never stand by while anybody was being murdered. And I've only told a christian or two that they were goofs here on this website. If I got a special revelation and taken up to the third heaven, I'd probably believe too. And get a one way ticket to the pearly gates. According to the bible, God is perfectly capable. Maybe I gotta be a bigger jerk before I'm eligible. ps: Where the hell is the third heaven? Exactly how many heavens are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 According to the bible, God is perfectly capable. Maybe I gotta be a bigger jerk before I'm eligible. Yes. We're actually working on our salvation as atheists and apostates!!! ps: Where the hell is the third heaven? Exactly how many heavens are there? I think its supposed to be seven. Seventh Heaven is where Glob himself sits on a big-fat-throne. (Wouldn't surprise me if this is taken from Gnosticism!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 The problem I have with this statement, and understand, its one of the reasons I rejected the christian myth, can be sumed up in one question. Why is it that God is only willing to save me if I believe in and worship him? Think of it like this, if you saw a man hanging from the edge of a cliff, and it was obvious he could not pull himself up, his only chance of being saved was if you helped him. Would you help him without question or would you first say, "well I'll pull you up, but only if you promise to be my slave and worship me for the rest of your life" Well would you say that? Indeed you would probably think that someone who did such a thing was a dispicable person. Why then is the standard for good and evil totally oposite for God? Can you answer that? God does the same thing, according to christians, and he is called wonderful savior Yes I'm sorry, I will never understand that kind of nonsense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that does sum it up nicely! Will have to remember that one. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I think its supposed to be seven. Seventh Heaven is where Glob himself sits on a big-fat-throne.(Wouldn't surprise me if this is taken from Gnosticism!) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, what a great name for a TV show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AudeSapere Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hey, how come Saul of Tarsus (Paul) gets a break? Now, I've never killed anybody. Would never stand by while anybody was being murdered. And I've only told a christian or two that they were goofs here on this website. If I got a special revelation and taken up to the third heaven, I'd probably believe too. And get a one way ticket to the pearly gates. According to the bible, God is perfectly capable. Maybe I gotta be a bigger jerk before I'm eligible. ps: Where the hell is the third heaven? Exactly how many heavens are there? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Mythra Why don't you ask for a special revelation? Think about what you would need to see in order to believe, and see if you get it. I got an answer and since so far I have not been diagnosed with a mental illness and I wasn't high at the time I will believe it and thus in God. Because in the end I want to. Now when I begin to get angry over what I feel is God being unjust I pray and I get an answer. Paul didn't ask for one but he got one because in his zeal for following God he had learned to be against Jesus and christians. In his heart he really thought he was doing what God wanted so God seeing that he would not hear the message anyother way decided to make an apperance. Salvation isn't a formula and its not the same for everyone. God meets everyone where we are at and he knows our hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hey, what a great name for a TV show Only the Young and Restless will go to Seventh Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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