Mythra Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 From reading his Biography it seems he still attends church?? I thought he was disproving Jesus? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whether or not he attends church, I couldn't say. But I have both of his books, and he is a fundamental christian's worst nightmare. He isn't dogmatic about Jesus having never existed, but in his second book he comes awfully close to outright saying so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I rather suspect you are right, but was hoping that someone had actually done a poll/study and reported the results. btw- the pastor in this case is a 'she', her particular church has a husband and wife as co-pastors. Yeah, I'd love to see that too. But there isn't one. Anybody who says they know what the majority of historians believe is selling something. We can hypostulate, but that's it, there's no hardcore polls or facts regarding the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Yeah, I'd love to see that too. But there isn't one. Anybody who says they know what the majority of historians believe is selling something. We can hypostulate, but that's it, there's no hardcore polls or facts regarding the subject. Agreed. Saying most people believe something doesn't mean anything, other than they're possibly all wrong. Who has the best supporting information is what really counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I'm doing an honest search. Brian Brian, Perhaps you received the answers you did because many of us did a similarly honest search and we just got ahead of you a bit. You have my respect because it appears to me you want the truth no matter the outcome and that can only be a healthy thing. Few christians I've encountered can say the same. I think I know where the road leads that you're heading down (notice I didn't say "I know") since I went down a similar road over a decade ago. I wish you the best in your pursuit of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 The fact is "Christians" were being killed for their belief, in what? Some guy who never existed even though it was a half century ago? That is very unlikely, that a mass of people, who were potentially one generation after the "supposed" Jesus', would believe in the lie that he never existed, and be killed for it. The Jews were slaughtered over the centuries for belief in a supernatural being that doesn't exist, the Pagans were killed for belief in a supernatural set of beings that didn't include Jesus, the "witches" -- who were more than likely Christian -- were killed for supposedly believing in the supernatural Satan, the Natives of America were killed for being primitive and un-Christian and believing in spirits that didn't exist.... From reading his Biography it seems he still attends church?? I thought he was disproving Jesus? A co-worker of mine was raised Seventh Day Adventist, and we get into rip-roaringly fun discussions over Christianity and why it's a load of shit. But he goes to a church nearby that he says is full of people who openly don't even believe in the religion; he goes just to hang out. Not because he believes in the bullshit. Says it's like a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Hi Dario You yourself can prove that Jesus was real, and supernatural. Just do what he said you would be able to in Mark 16 17"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Those are Jesus' (alleged) words. If you can't, then Jesus lied and according to your bible is a false prophet. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 So...Christian...did you drink poison yet? Waiting to hear the results of your proof of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 So...Christian...did you drink poison yet? Waiting to hear the results of your proof of faith. Wait stop! Jesus didn't say that. It was some later addition by some unkown author. You'll die! Oh wait, it's the innerrant word of God. I forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Just wanted to add to the Philo history. He also wrote a lot of philosophical ideas that later was incorporated into Christianity (100-200 yrs later). So obviously his ideas were intriguing and compelling enough to be part of the teaching of the religion, but at the same time, God knowing this, and Philo living in Jerusalem for some time, were never introduced to Jesus by God himself... Let me put it in other words: If Philo's teaching were good enough for Christians 100 years later to be adopted, why wasn't Philo good enough to meet Jesus? Especially the likelyhood for them to bump into eachother on the streets in Jerusalem was extremely high? Is God playing tricks on us with historical events, dogma and theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Let me put it in other words:If Philo's teaching were good enough for Christians 100 years later to be adopted, why wasn't Philo good enough to meet Jesus? Especially the likelyhood for them to bump into eachother on the streets in Jerusalem was extremely high? Is God playing tricks on us with historical events, dogma and theology? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here is the absolute bullshit christian answer: Jesus was just an obscure man who travelled about preaching the kingdom of god. No one took note of him. Nothing distinguished him. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. Three people raised from the dead. 5,000 fed with a basket of food. Lepers, paralytics, blind people, cripples, lunatics, all healed in front of hundreds if not thousands of witnesses. Zombies walking the streets. Just your everyday average routine shit. Now, I understand that cell service then was not what it is now, but surely these people were able to talk to one another. It wasn't like all of their conversations were tied up discussing Monday night football or whether or not they got a deer tag. Philo and Justus and Josephus could not have missed hearing and investigating these events. Any maroon can figure out that they never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Here is the absolute bullshit christian answer: Jesus was just an obscure man who travelled about preaching the kingdom of god. No one took note of him. Nothing distinguished him. Yeah. Sure. Whatever. Three people raised from the dead. 5,000 fed with a basket of food. Lepers, paralytics, blind people, cripples, lunatics, all healed in front of hundreds if not thousands of witnesses. Zombies walking the streets. Just your everyday average routine shit. Now, I understand that cell service then was not what it is now, but surely these people were able to talk to one another. It wasn't like all of their conversations were tied up discussing Monday night football or whether or not they got a deer tag. Philo and Justus and Josephus could not have missed hearing and investigating these events. Any maroon can figure out that they never happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What do you guys think of the Robert Price debate found on his site with John Rankin? http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/rob...kin/index.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Here is the absolute bullshit christian answer: Jesus was just an obscure man who travelled about preaching the kingdom of god. No one took note of him. Nothing distinguished him. I know about that answer, but it doesn't answer why God let such a thing happen. Philo was teaching key concepts the Christians later adopted. God would have know this and see it and considered Philo important to the early teachings. Hence God either decided that Philo was wrong, and the Christians that adopted his teachings misled the whole church, or God never sent Jesus. Philo is also the proof that there were learned and skilled people that were open to new ideas within religion and especially Judaism. (Philo was a Jew and a scholar) People were not dick-weeds without writing skills. Remember Jesus read from the scrolls at his synagoge. How can he read but not write? Jesus didn't write one letter to us! Wouldn't that have been a more powerful word from God, if God himself actually wrote the letters and the books??? If God wanted a trustworthy, open minded and skilled writer as an eyewitness, God should have picked Philo. But God didn't. Why? Imagine Philo traveling in Israel and living in Jerusalem at the EXACT time of Jesus preaching. Philo wanted to know God better, and God denied him the truth. What a good friend God is! With God at your side you wish for the devils company!!! Philo - God, I want to understand you and know you better. God - Screw you! Philo and Justus and Josephus could not have missed hearing and investigating these events. That is true. They should have heard something. Jospehus was basically combing the area with his journeys, and saw and heard nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Once you include God's will in the equation, the answer can only be one thing. The gate is narrow and God wanted it left that way. Perhaps there is limited seating available in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Once you include God's will in the equation, the answer can only be one thing. The gate is narrow and God wanted it left that way. God intentionally let people be born, with a guarranteed ticket to hell for eternity. He knows it and he does nothing about it. And only Frank (Croesus) is Christian enough to go to heaven. He'll be lonely, I tell ya'. Perhaps there is limited seating available in heaven. And yet, that was Jesus job to go to Heaven and prepare the "mansions" for all the re-born. Hmmm. Maybe he was a crappy carpenter, or maybe 3 days wasn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 God intentionally let people be born, with a guarranteed ticket to hell for eternity. He knows it and he does nothing about it. And only Frank (Croesus) is Christian™ enough to go to heaven. He'll be lonely, I tell ya'. No, my annoying cube mate will be there with him. Then they can debate each other for all of eternity and perpetually annoy themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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