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Goodbye Jesus

how many will he say ths to?...


BLACKGRAVITY

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Did He ever make contact with you? Did you have a real encounter with God? Or did you ascent to the teachings of the church or your parents at a very early age in life, without any real and tangible inward direction from God Himself. If He did indeed 'speak' to you, thereby eradicating doubt -- and then, after this, truly did abandon you, well whoop-dee-doo congratulations! You may have a real case against His goodness, one in which you'll be exonerated of all guilt and God will be condemned -- and all of us gathered here will be witnesses. But remember the question, did you have a real and genuine supernatural encounter with the Lord? Or was your so-called belief predicated on early teaching and the susceptibility of your youth?

 

Have I the right? ...the right to care and try to reach you in love ...well, God yes, I should hope so. Otherwise what kind of human being would I be. NS

 

You just don't get it. I prayed and prayed and listened desperately for a response for twenty years. If your god, presuming he even exists, had deigned to say a single thing to me in return for that devotion, he'd still have it. He didn't bother. THAT IS PROOF ENOUGH THAT YOUR GOD, EVEN IF HE EXISTED, IS A HEARTLESS ASSHOLE WHO WAS NOT THERE FOR ME WHEN I NEEDED HIM, TIME AND AGAIN. I obeyed the laws and kept the faith anyway, for a long, long time. It was a lot more than he deserved.

 

And you are NOT "reaching out in love". You are blithely dismissing my nightmarish experience in the face of your silent, indifferent, heartless, uncaring (and likely mythical) god.

 

An innocent, abused kid who believes and loves God and Jesus with all her heart deserves an answer. Comfort. SOMETHING. Where was your worthless god when I needed him?

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  • Nicole Simon

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Did He ever make contact with you? Did you have a real encounter with God?

Nicole, are you saying you aren't truely saved unless you have some kind of spiritual encounter with God? I thought all you had to do was be sincere and ASK. If a child asks his earthly father for a fish, would he give him a rock? How much more would the heavenly father give to those who ask? It is clear that all you need do to be saved is call upon the name of the lord and have faith. If you don't get a supernatural spiritual visit from God, who's fault is that?

 

Do you think some children are rejected by God because they didn't ask correctly or didn't know the right words, even though they sought Him and loved Him with all their hearts??

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Nicole, are you saying you aren't truely saved unless you have some kind of spiritual encounter with God?  I thought all you had to do was be sincere and ASK.  If a child asks his earthly father for a fish, would he give him a rock?  How much more would the heavenly father give to those who ask?   It is clear that all you need do to be saved is call upon the name of the lord and have faith.  If you don't get a supernatural spiritual visit from God, who's fault is that? 

 

Do you think some children are rejected by God because they didn't ask correctly or didn't know the right words, even though they sought Him and loved Him with all their hearts??

 

She's just rationalizing. If Biblegod had literally called me, in a supernatural sense, I would not have NEEDED FAITH IN THE FIRST PLACE!

 

Instead I had faith--far more than was healthy. I should have told The Silent God to go fuck himself at twelve, called CPS on my mother and FORCED a better situation for myself and my baby sister through reliable, material means. But instead, I really believed that God would take care of it.

 

I was an idiot, and my reward was nothing but pain.

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Nicole, are you saying you aren't truely saved unless you have some kind of spiritual encounter with God?  I thought all you had to do was be sincere and ASK.  If a child asks his earthly father for a fish, would he give him a rock?  How much more would the heavenly father give to those who ask?   It is clear that all you need do to be saved is call upon the name of the lord and have faith.  If you don't get a supernatural spiritual visit from God, who's fault is that? 

 

Do you think some children are rejected by God because they didn't ask correctly or didn't know the right words, even though they sought Him and loved Him with all their hearts??

Isn't it confusing? Either we should believe without seeing or testing God, or we should believe only if we get a spiritual encounter or apparation...?

 

1Co 14:33 KJVA  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

I'm sure Christianity is the religion of Anti-Christ. The real Jesus was forgotten when Paul and his posse came on board and twisted the message and wrote false books.

 

The true message is gone.

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Don't talk like that.  You were a Christian.

And you didn't even get a rock...

Or a T-Shirt... :(

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Only one little problem with your reasoning, Nicole.  (well, there's more than one, but one primary one comes to mind)

 

The first verses we were talking about were supposedly written by Matthew.  In Matthew, we see that simply believing in the Son is never mentioned as being the will of the father and sufficient for salvation.  In Matthew, we have a long long list of do's and dont's (don't get angry, don't lust, etc, etc) , and Jesus says that not one iota of the law is to be done away with.

 

It's only forty to fifty years later when the author of the book of John gets the theology fully developed, that the "will of the father" is simply to believe in the son. 

 

Don't you find it curious that Jesus' words are so drastically different between Matthew and John?  Was this even the same guy speaking?

 

Are you unable to see the writer's bias when observing these two writings?

 

Hi Mythra ...how is it going? You know, an even wider stretch than 50 years exists to the time of David, after he 'Lusted' and 'Lied' and 'Murdered' ...and yet, when God sent Nathan to him and David confessed and asked forgiveness -- God still forgave him. His Mercy endureth forever.

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Don't talk like that.  You were a Christian.

And you didn't even get a rock...

 

All right, all right, fine. I was a kid who was too innocent and desperate (and broken) not to believe the bible's lies about what a wonderful guy their homicidal, bigoted hypocrite of a god is. I really, honestly believed that God was good and loved me and would do something to at least acknowledge me if I tried hard enough to be his good kid.

 

It's not my fault that I was wrong. Frankly, I wish I could sue the bible's writers for the false advertising that ended up ENDANGERING MY LIFE multiple times.

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Hi Mythra ...how is it going? You know, an even wider stretch than 50 years exists to the time of David, after he 'Lusted' and 'Lied' and 'Murdered' ...and yet, when God sent Nathan to him and David confessed and asked forgiveness -- God still forgave him. His Mercy endureth forever.

 

Liar. Where was this vaunted mercy when I needed it? I was an innocent kid who thought I was a horrible person when I took the garbage out later than the parents I was supposed to honor wanted. I never lusted, rarely lied, and certainly never murdered anyone. Why didn't I rate so much as an "I love you" if that's the case?

 

It was really all I wanted.

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Hi Mythra ...how is it going? You know, an even wider stretch than 50 years exists to the time of David, after he 'Lusted' and 'Lied' and 'Murdered' ...and yet, when God sent Nathan to him and David confessed and asked forgiveness -- God still forgave him. His Mercy endureth forever.

Why didn't Jesus write anything?

 

Why don't we have any books written by the apostles from the years between 30-70?

 

Why didn't Philo write about Jesus?

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A friendly warning. Nicole, you might be taking on a bigger chunk than you can chew.

 

I'm not going to defend Becca, since I know she does it extremely well on her own, but I'm certain she was as true and honest in her search for God and her passionate will of knowing God.

 

It's dangerous to question how genuine anyone's intentions were. Maybe it was the lack of a supernatural encounter with the Lord is explained by the simple reason that there is no supernatural Lord to encounter? Maybe it was the supernatural encounter she was longing and asking for? How can you tell?

 

Han, I appreciate your concern and the 'heads-up' ...dutifully acknowledged.

 

But notice, please, I never nor do I now question her sincerity. That was never in question. I only wanted to know if she had directly experienced God's touch in an unmistakable way. Not teaching. Not rules and regulations and a wishful hoping that you are doing 'everything' right ...which, btw, He never requires of any of us. I only wanted to know if she had a personal, and supernatural, encounter with the Lord. That's what a means to be born again. It occurs from 'up above' ...not from this world.

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Hi Mythra ...how is it going? You know, an even wider stretch than 50 years exists to the time of David, after he 'Lusted' and 'Lied' and 'Murdered' ...and yet, when God sent Nathan to him and David confessed and asked forgiveness -- God still forgave him. His Mercy endureth forever.

 

Hey Nicole.

 

I don't see where this answers anything. We're not talking about God's forgiveness and patience here. We're talking about internal inconsistencies within the gospels. Matthew and John are diametrically opposed in their opinions of how to please God. Bottom line is that one or both of them are mistaken. Christians tend to chant the mantra of John 3:16. Perhaps they should pay more attention to Matthew's demands to follow the law or perhaps Luke 14:26.

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Why didn't Jesus write anything?

Why don't we have any books written by the apostles from the years between 30-70?

Why didn't Philo write about Jesus?

 

Hans, hans, hans. You know the reason.

 

Same reason no one can tell us the year Jesus was born or what he looked like.

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Nicole, are you saying you aren't truely saved unless you have some kind of spiritual encounter with God?

 

Yes. But Jesus said it first ... "no one can enter the Kingdom of God lest they be born again." As far as I can ascertain, this can't be done at General Hospital or your local emergency room. It is, as you assume I said, a supernatural transaction.

 

I thought all you had to do was be sincere and ASK.

 

And how has that been workin' for ya so far?

 

If a child asks his earthly father for a fish, would he give him a rock? How much more would the heavenly father give to those who ask?

 

These people are already believers. That's why Jesus can refer to God as the heavenly father ...and furthermore, the request He is speaking of deals directly with receiving the Holy Spirit. There is always that delineation in the NT, Jesus ony refers to God as a Father when he's addressing people who already believe. Does he ever use the term when he's talking to the children of the devil. No. He says their father is below, and has been a liar from the beginning.

 

It is clear that all you need do to be saved is call upon the name of the lord and have faith.

 

Now what in Heaven's name would possess you to do that? Wait! I know. . .as a matter of fact, I just answered it above. Heaven's name. God would, yes, have to call you to do that. It's not something we come up with on our own.

 

If you don't get a supernatural spiritual visit from God, who's fault is that?

 

Are you telling me you haven't? If that's true, well whoop-dee-doo, guess what? you're off the hook for the time being. enjoy the abundant freedom. you only have to be judged by what you know in your heart to be right and wrong. hope that works out for ya.

 

Do you think some children are rejected by God because they didn't ask correctly or didn't know the right words, even though they sought Him and loved Him with all their hearts??

 

That's between those children and God. They're not by children (I've got enough trouble with one. lol) I only know of the deal I signed on to.

 

Bitchin' lookin' avatar, by the way.

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Why didn't Jesus write anything?

 

 

He wrote something in the sand and the accusers walked away. Maybe we couldn't handle His Words. The accusers of the adultress obviously couldn't.

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Yes. But Jesus said it first ... "no one can enter the Kingdom of God lest they be born again." As far as I can ascertain, this can't be done at General Hospital or your local emergency room. It is, as you assume I said, a supernatural transaction.

 

Then that directly contradicts the bible, because it says by faith you are saved, and 100% of Christians are not saved since you can't prove the supernatural exists, or that they had supernatural encounters at all.

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Hey Nicole. 

 

I don't see where this answers anything.  We're not talking about God's forgiveness and patience here.  We're talking about internal inconsistencies within the gospels.  Matthew and John are diametrically opposed in their opinions of how to please God.  Bottom line is that one or both of them are mistaken.  Christians tend to chant the mantra of John 3:16.  Perhaps they should pay more attention to Matthew's demands to follow the law or perhaps Luke 14:26.

 

Sorry Mythra ...I just thought I'd take a swing for the fences and see if it would go over your head. Hey, ya can't blame a gal for tryin'

 

I'll have to take a look at that scripture later. I gotta get some dinner ready ... Daughter is gonna be back soon. Okay? Thanks

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Han, I appreciate your concern and the 'heads-up' ...dutifully acknowledged.

 

But notice, please, I never nor do I now question her sincerity. That was never in question. I only wanted to know if she had directly experienced God's touch in an unmistakable way. Not teaching. Not rules and regulations and a wishful hoping that you are doing 'everything' right ...which, btw, He never requires of any of us. I only wanted to know if she had a personal, and supernatural, encounter with the Lord. That's what a means to be born again. It occurs from 'up above' ...not from this world.

 

No. There was no answer. Not ever. I had faith (FAITH, remember that?) enough to love God and study the bible and obey the rules and keep TRYING AS HARD AS I COULD without a single shred of proof. That was how much I loved and trusted your god.

 

Your god never talked back or did anything. I went all those years giving love and obedience to him without getting anything back. And I still kept at it, until I couldn't stand it anymore.

 

In the end, it was either denounce Christianity as a myth or kill myself, because "god the father" never gave any indication of giving a shit about me. Just like with my crazy-ass abusive mother, I cut my losses to save my own sanity.

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Then that directly contradicts the bible, because it says by faith you are saved, and 100% of Christians are not saved since you can't prove the supernatural exists, or that they had supernatural encounters at all.

 

 

It also says, "God is the author and finisher of our faith."

 

What does that mean to you? Nobody speaks on stage until the author gives them their lines. . .no one comes to the Father lest the Spirit draw them nigh. . .no one enters the Kingdom of God lest they be born again. Seems to me, He has to be the one to initiate all these enterprises. He is the Author and Finisher. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is not going to help me get dinner ready, so I don't even bother to ask. See ya all later. Love, Nicole

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It also says, "God is the author and finisher of our faith."

 

What does that mean to you? Nobody speaks on stage until the author gives them their lines. . .no one comes to the Father lest the Spirit draw them nigh. . .no one enters the Kingdom of God lest they be born again. Seems to me, He has to be the one to initiate all these enterprises. He is the Author and Finisher. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He is not going to help me get dinner ready, so I don't even bother to ask. See ya all later. Love, Nicole

 

Watch her run. She can't address the issues I brought up, so she runs. They always either do that or do some asshole rationalization thing that lays the blame back on me.

 

Hey Nicole, your God's a prick. He never called, but I tried to be his good kid anyway. I didn't need a "call" to get me started--I just wanted to be his good kid, in the hopes he would actually notice me and say something. Anything. All the bastard had to do was throw me a bone. There is NO reason why he wouldn't, except he's either a heartless asshole who didn't love me at all, or he doesn't exist.

 

He didn't, so I left, and babbling about how wonderful he is won't change that. Besides, you keep saying that the ball's in that bastard's court anyway, not mine, so why bother?

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A friendly warning. Nicole, you might be taking on a bigger chunk than you can chew.

 

I'm not going to defend Becca, since I know she does it extremely well on her own, but I'm certain she was as true and honest in her search for God and her passionate will of knowing God.

 

It's dangerous to question how genuine anyone's intentions were. Maybe it was the lack of a supernatural encounter with the Lord is explained by the simple reason that there is no supernatural Lord to encounter? Maybe it was the supernatural encounter she was longing and asking for? How can you tell?

 

 

Very good Han....I agree. I can relate to both you and Becca very well.....

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Bitchin' lookin' avatar, by the way.

Thank you.

 

So you admit that besides the fact that I have a bitchin' avatar, it is God HimSelf that decides whether or not to save us, and it isn't up to us, no matter how hard we try. You place yourself into the predestination camp. That puts the responsibility on God and not us. Okay. And all those who WANT to be saved, but weren't chosen, can just go to hell. Fine. Niether Moses, the OT prophets or I believe in hell anyway.

 

Yes, I asked to be saved, asked for the Holy Spirit, gave my life to Jesus, and was babtized in water AND in the Holy Spirit. Stayed devoted for about 30 years. I never had a supernatural experience although I learned to speak in tongues and did often. But eventually I learned way too much to remain a believer. I am much happier and more free than ever before. I have knowledge of the bible and its origins that none of my Christian friends or pastors ever knew. I don't hate or even dislike MOST Christians, but I am convinced they are wrong.

 

So it's working out fine for me, thank you for asking. How about you?

 

(P.S. Hi Lisa!)

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Hans, hans, hans.  You know the reason.

 

Same reason no one can tell us the year Jesus was born or what he looked like.

Hey, Mythra, no cheating. Don't tell them the answers!!

 

Anyway. Isn't strange that the gospels are supposed to be eyewitness stories, while they tell legends about the birth of Jesus (none of the disciples where there), which they must have gotten from Mary (can we trust her story?), or when Jesus was praying and the disciples fell asleep, how do the writer know what Jesus did while they were sleeping? And so on...

 

 

**edit**

I spell like crap, and don't discover it until someone else quotes me, and I say "hey, those suckers can't spell", then I see it's my text... Damn it!!! :grin:

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He wrote something in the sand and the accusers walked away. Maybe we couldn't handle His Words. The accusers of the adultress obviously couldn't.

Maybe he was trying to invent the sand-paper, and it didn't work out.

 

The cut-and-past is not that easy with sand either... so they say...

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Watch her run. She can't address the issues I brought up, so she runs. They always either do that or do some asshole rationalization thing that lays the blame back on me.

 

Yes I did run. I ran to get dinner for my kid, and then I'm gonna run up stairs and grade a bunch of papers, and then I'm gonna straighten up things around here, and------well, why bother to explain, dearie. You're obviously not concerned with my insignificant little life when you've got real problems. What were they again? Oh yeah, God never revealed Himself to you. Well ask Him, and until He does be patient. Take one day at a time. It's up to Him to let you know...not the other way around. You don't win brownie points for believing in a God who hasn't revealed Himself to you. You'd only get weird looks, a shrug of the shoulders, and a, What are ya doin' that for? If you never heard from God, why bother? Isn't life hard enough without obeying an imaginary God that you've created in your own mind? But if He reveals Himself, then I'd advice doing what He requests. Faith is God's gift to you -- Not your gift to God. He can manage fine without you manufacturing an artificial love. Let Him love you first.

 

Hey Nicole, your God's a prick.

 

And how would you know? You yourself admitted He never said anything to you about anything ...ever ...in your whole life. So, tell me, how is it again you know what He is like?

 

 

He never called

 

But yet, you claim God is a prick. Interesting.

 

but I tried to be his good kid anyway. I didn't need a "call" to get me started

 

And that, precisely, is why you didn't get one. If you don't need one, why should He bother. He was probably busy with me ...I always need His help. Everyday. Today, for some reason, more than others.

 

Besides, you keep saying that the ball's in that bastard's court anyway, not mine, so why bother?

 

There ya go. Now you've got it. Let go and let God we like to say with a big wide grin. Just relax, kid. Ask Him once ...and then let it go. I promise, at the right time and at the right place God will come through for you.

 

But remember, if you tick Nicole off, you'll never make it to that day :nono:

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