how many will he say ths to?...

[Fweethawt]

Maybe someday ...if we get to know each other, and I can determine whether the above is sarcasm or sincerity. At the moment the scales are tipping toward you being a smart ass. But, hey, that's okay. That's your right. Just as it's my right to 'let you out up the road a ways.' And Mythra, dear, watch that door on your way out.

He was sincere in his asking of that question. We hear all different kinds of these stories. He just wanted to hear yours. That's all.

 

What difference is it to you what my particular experience is? Is it going to 'alter' the course of your life?

In a way, it will. His thinking will change, however minutely, about the way that he approaches and perceives believers of the Christian religion. In short, he'll be learning.

 

I hardly think so -- and you know that, you do? So why bother asking, it only shows you disingenuous. We each have our own account and that's all we need be concerned with. It's not like we're going to die and be judged as buck and wing act. It's not vaudeville, sweetie.

This is obviously a touchy subject for you, and it sounds like something that you'd rather not talk about right now. That's all you had to say.

[Kuroikaze]

Sorry. I'm at a loss---- the Bible, you say, is plagiarized, meaning what? that people 'lifted' from the Bible? Or is it the other way around -- did you mean to say others stole from prior literature in order to write the Bible ...and if that's true (oh please, tell me that's what you believe!) ...from whom did they steal. 'They' in this instance being the 34 authors who wrote the Bible over the span of 1400 years. They must've taken meticulous notes and kept the lines of communication open--- somehow. But How? Do tell. That in itself is miraculous. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to sustain a narrative timeline within a novel -- let alone an epic? Please. Help me out here. Lucy!~ you got some 'splainin to do Lucy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

uh....but the narrative is not consistant...even a little bit.

 

In the Torah (first 5 books of the bible) God is not treated as omnipotant, or all knowladgeble.

He changes his mind, it argued into changing his actions by Abraham, He regrets making man before the flood, and yet God's personality seems to change much durring the progresion of the old testement.

 

Ever wonder why, Hell, Heaven, Demons, Angels, Satan...so on and so forth, aren't mentioned in the old testiment, with the exception of Daniel. Because those concepts were imported from Babylon during the exile.

 

 

Why is it that the two geneologies of Jesus do not agree with each other, or with the geneologies they reference in the old testement?

 

Where is the consistancy you speak of, because frankly I'm clueless. I don't know what Bible you are reading, but you need to read it more closely.

[Nicole Simon]

What are you basing this reply on, if it is not an assumption?  Have you received verbal communication from your god directly telling you that he will personally see to every single person alive or dead?

 

You state, all-believing perhaps, that god 1) exists, 2) cares whether or not we know him, and 3) will purposely introduce himself to everyone in order to ensure that they know him.  What are you basing these statements on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Look... mind if I ask you a question? Do you want to know Him or not? I can't tell, that's why I'm asking. I'm sensing hostility. Are we hostile, Cerise? Or are you in a bit of genuine doubt?

[Fweethawt]

Look... mind if I ask you a question? Do you want to know Him or not? I can't tell, that's why I'm asking. I'm sensing hostility. Are we hostile, Cerise? Or are you in a bit of genuine doubt?

 

You're moving into Pugatory* here, Nicole.

 

Do you want to know Him or not?

She did once. Remember, this is an ExChristian site.

 

 

 

 

* - not to be mistaken for purgatory. this is simply a play on words to reflect that you're making comments similar to those of Pug's over in that other thread.

[Nicole Simon]

You can regard yourself lucky then, that you got this gift before your last minute in life, and without having to pray in faith to get it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The following, directed to Han, is also pretty much of a statement for all of you. I've received some news tonight, on a personal family matter, one that will be greatly dividing my time. Consequently, I won't be able to post as often as I'd like. But perhaps it's for the best. For those of you searching, and still seeking God -- when you do, might I ask a favor, ask for His help in regard to a very old and very sick man, one who wishes, I believe, to have life be over and done. Thank You

 

You used the word 'circular' in your post (most of which I deleted in that I have neither the will nor strength to go round and round ...something which I fear we're beginning to do. Why waste each other's time, right?) So here it is, one last time ...yes, of course I'm basing my claim on what I've personally experienced. That, and what the Bible says. What else do I have to offer. Certainly not scientific proof. I have only my own personal experience, or encounter if you will. In time, I feel, you reach an impasse in discussions such as this. We've arrived, I believe.

 

There is no amount of talking to persuade any of you to think differently. I knew that from the beginning, but enjoyed the heated and fiery passion of our earlier encounters. We were young then, we were alive. Okay, let's move on...

 

If you truly desire a personal experience with the Lord Jesus Christ, I'll stand with you to believe it will come to pass. Other than that, I'm powerless to help ...sorry to say. I wish it weren't so, but I'm afraid it is. One way or another, may you find the best that life has to offer. Sincerely, Nicole Simon

[Fweethawt]

For those of you searching, and still seeking God -- when you do, might I ask a favor, ask for His help in regard to a very old  and very sick man, one who wishes, I believe, to have life be over and done. Thank You

 

At the beginning of this month, someone in my family died at the age of 95. He was very old and very sick. He wanted to live. His wife, also 95, wants to live even more now.

 

 

 

Nicole,

 

By the sounds of things, it looks like someone close to you is on the brink of passing away. I think I speak for a great many of us godless, yet compassionate unbelievers when I say, you have our sympathy, and our hearts go out to you.

 

Take care, and come back when you can.

[Cerise]

Look... mind if I ask you a question? Do you want to know Him or not? I can't tell, that's why I'm asking. I'm sensing hostility. Are we hostile, Cerise? Or are you in a bit of genuine doubt?

 

How do I know if I want to know Him when currently there isn't anything to support that there actually is a Him to know?

 

Which Him? The slightly childish god of abraham? The hippy-guru god of Paul? Unless one of these speaks up first, or at least calls attention to himself in some way, how will I know if I want to know them?

 

In any case, I hope you don't talk to your student with the half-sneer perpetually in your words as I have noticed you do here. Are we hostlie Cerise? That kind of attitude is never productive for learning.

 

Do you intend to answer these question, or is getting defensive a signal that I shouldn't have bothered asking them?

[BeccasStillSeeking]

Yes I did run. I ran to get dinner for my kid, and then I'm gonna run up stairs and grade a bunch of papers, and then I'm gonna straighten up things around here, and------well, why bother to explain, dearie. You're obviously not concerned with my insignificant little life when you've got real problems. What were they again? Oh yeah, God never revealed Himself to you. Well ask Him, and until He does be patient. Take one day at a time. It's up to Him to let you know...not the other way around. You don't win brownie points for believing in a God who hasn't revealed Himself to you. You'd only get weird looks, a shrug of the shoulders, and a, What are ya doin' that for? If you never heard from God, why bother? Isn't life hard enough without obeying an imaginary God that you've created in your own mind? But if He reveals Himself, then I'd advice doing what He requests. Faith is God's gift to you -- Not your gift to God. He can manage fine without you manufacturing an artificial love. Let Him love you first.

And how would you know? You yourself admitted He never said anything to you about anything ...ever ...in your whole life. So, tell me, how is it again you know what He is like?   

But yet, you claim God is a prick. Interesting.

And that, precisely, is why you didn't get one. If you don't need one, why should He bother. He was probably busy with me ...I always need His help. Everyday. Today, for some reason, more than others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I ALREADY INVITED HIM. I SPENT TWENTY YEARS INVITING HIM.

 

I spent twenty years begging for him to say one word for me. He never said a thing no matter how much I needed him or how hard I worked to obey him. That is the bit you keep glossing over, and that is why I am getting increasingly disgusted and frustrated with you.

 

I invited. I begged. I pleaded. I worked very hard. I was incredibly dedicated--and unlike you, I HAD no presumption of "engraved invitation" to strengthen my faith.

 

I was answered with cold silence.

 

So once again--your god's either a heartless asshole, or does not exist.

 

I will never EVER bother with him again. Twenty years of silence is more than enough.

 

There ya go. Now you've got it. Let go and let God we like to say with a big wide grin. Just relax, kid. Ask Him once ...and then let it go. I promise, at the right time and at the right place God will come through for you.

 

But remember, if you tick Nicole off, you'll never make it to that day

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, because you're the arbiter of who gets into Heaven.

 

Fuck you and fuck your god. If he exists, he's a heartless monster who rejected a desperate, abused child who was willing to give her whole life to him. If he doesn't, which I really do believe is the case, then the argument's ridiculously moot anyway.

 

No god who would leave me high and dry after so much devotion is deserving of anything but my contempt.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

I find it interesting, Becca....um....that you don't believe in God, yet you contain such malice towards it.  Isn't that kind of like being angry at Santa?

 

God is a concept....like Santa....that is used for many reasons relative to each person.  Now this concept is taken as a reality for some people, but why you?  Why say "God is a prick"?  Cuz he's not...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Twenty years of trauma and disappointment that was ultimately caused by lies and fictions is trauma and disappointment nonetheless, and sometimes my rage gets the better of it. Let's face it: lifelong atheists really do have it easy--you never have to wrestle with this particular pain.

 

The sad part is: if this Yahweh was an actual real person, I could go up to him, bawl him out for hours for demanding so much of me while not even being willing to offer love and comfort in return, call him out on his misogyny, genocidal mania and general evil, slap him across the face, denounce him as a complete bastard and deadbeat Dad whom I REJECT, and be done with it.

 

But whose feet do I lay this pain and trauma at now? It's not like it disappears just because I understand that the Christian concept of God is full of shit! It's all lies, but I'm STILL tearing up just writing this. The memory of that disappointment is, in some ways, even more painful than the memory of what my parents did. At least Mommie Dearest has the excuse of being insane, and at least she's REAL and around, so I can when I'm healed enough tell her exactly what she did and tell her to go fuck herself.

 

But these Christian jerks keep coming by and babbling about what a wonderful guy he is, when for me he's either fiction or a THIRD abysmally crappy, neglectful, abusive, impossibly demanding, heartless parent! It infuriates me. I suffered unimaginably because of that lie--in fact, I nearly killed myself over it. But here the smiling zombies come, trying to "win me back".

 

I can find the priest who told me to pray to God instead of calling CPS. I can antagonize all the churches who promised me they were the One True Way. I can write the Catholics and ask to be excommunicated. I can remind myself again and again that Biblegod is a lie. But it doesn't take that pain away.

 

Frankly, I wonder if anything will.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

No.

Again, no. It's no assumption. Either God will call on you while you're living, or you'll show up on His doorstep at the moment you take your last breath. One way or the other we're all headed for that face to face encounter. I don't know what more a person can do but ask sincerely, and once they've done that, be patient. What's so hard about living the golden rule and moving on from there. If you were truly sincere in asking, and God never got back to you, I don't see where it can be your fault. And I don't believe you'll find in the Bible that it is. It does say many are called in the last hour, maybe lying in a hospital bed. That would make it important not to abandon hope and miss out on that opportunity in the end. Sadly, many do. Having thought that God abandoned them, they went their own way, and in the end, when He came round for them...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, so, here I am trolling YET AGAIN FOR A STRAIGHT ANSWER:

 

Twenty years of inviting him.

 

Answer me STRAIGHT this time:

 

Where was that heartless bastard when I DESPERATELY NEEDED him, and was inviting him every day?

 

Where? Where was he?

 

Innocent kid. Inviting him every day. Believing he would answer. Working to please him despite his lack of an answer--which you dismiss as extraneous instead of praising--that's a very interesting double standard.

 

Where was your god when I had only him to rely on?

 

Where?

[BeccasStillSeeking]

The one that brings you closest to God. Pick one. Anyone. Your pain is palpable and causes me heartache, Han. You know that much, I hope. Gotta go. Busy day tomorrow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I intensively studied several different flavors of Christianity, and also studied the Bible independently for years. I "invited" your god in many different dialects.

 

Where was his answer? I left because I couldn't take him breaking my heart again. That makes it his fault. If he knew I would give up inviting him because his silence hurt me so badly, WHY DIDN'T HE ANSWER?

[BeccasStillSeeking]

Asimov,

 

Please don't push these particular buttons. If I'm not mistaken, you were one of the lucky ones who were never really sucked into the religion, correct? If so, then you wouldn't know how "real" the personification of nothing can seem to a believer.

 

If one spends much of their life trying to communicate with this "nothing", only to find that this "nothing" never really existed, the disillusionment pains continue to blur the lines between fantasy and reality within the unbelieving mind long after rationality has taken hold.

 

It seems quite silly to someone who has never had to deal with it. I know.

 

It's just part of the growing pains, methinks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's not being as callous about it as I've seen some hardline atheists be. Ive actually had them SCATHINGLY CRITICIZE me at length for being so sad about this, or for remaining a spiritual seeker instead of believing solely in what science has defined.

 

Anyway, I tried to explain it in a way someone who has never been religious would grok. Hopefully it was clear.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

Look... mind if I ask you a question? Do you want to know Him or not? I can't tell, that's why I'm asking. I'm sensing hostility. Are we hostile, Cerise? Or are you in a bit of genuine doubt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If we wanted to know Biblegod, we would not be ex-Christians.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

The following, directed to Han, is also pretty much of a statement for all of you. I've received some news tonight, on a personal family matter, one that will be greatly dividing my time. Consequently, I won't be able to post as often as I'd like. But perhaps it's for the best. For those of you searching, and still seeking God -- when you do, might I ask a favor, ask for His help in regard to a very old  and very sick man, one who wishes, I believe, to have life be over and done. Thank You

 

*snip*

 

If you truly desire a personal experience with the Lord Jesus Christ, I'll stand with you to believe it will come to pass. Other than that, I'm powerless to help ...sorry to say. I wish it weren't so, but I'm afraid it is. One way or another, may you find the best that life has to offer. Sincerely, Nicole Simon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I already gave those bastards twenty years of begging for them to talk to me. I TRULY DESIRED A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH JESUS AND GOD AND BEGGED FOR IT NIGHTLY FOR TWENTY YEARS. If they exist, they couldn't be bothered. That makes them heartless, horrible, and unworthy of worship.

 

It didn't come to pass.

 

That makes you a liar.

[Mythra]

Becca: I feel so bad for ya, kiddo.

 

That's a tough way to start your life. And anger and hatred are tough pills to swallow.

 

I do think that those emotions will fade with time. Don't let the thumpers get to ya. They're just so thoroughly brainwashed that they are oblivious to your or anyone else's pain. All they want to do is plant seeds for Jesus. That's all that matters in their trivial little microcosm of artificial reality.

 

The more you come to realize that God is a fiction, the less you will find there is to hate. I'm sure that you will always be resentful of your past. Rightly so.

 

Just remember. We're on your side.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

Becca:  I feel so bad for ya, kiddo.

 

That's a tough way to start your life.  And anger and hatred are tough pills to swallow. 

 

I do think that those emotions will fade with time.  Don't let the thumpers get to ya.  They're just so thoroughly brainwashed that they are oblivious to your or anyone else's pain.  All they want to do is plant seeds for Jesus.  That's all that matters in their trivial little microcosm of artificial reality.

 

The more you come to realize that God is a fiction, the less you will find there is to hate.  I'm sure that you will always be resentful of your past.  Rightly so.

 

Just remember.  We're on your side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks. This month is being especially rough, so my resistance to these bouts of anger and sadness are kind of at a low right now. So I fear I may rant a lot. But anyway--thank you.

 

Funny how she still can't come up with a straight answer, eh? Yesterday, she had to go prepare dinner at three in the afternoon, and suddenly she has a dying relative.

 

Or maybe I'm just really snarky and suspicious because of all the similar excuses the OTHER evangelists have come up with when I pin them like this. In which case, she actually does have my sympathy--in spite of her compassionless god-bothering.

[Mythra]

For now, I'm gonna give Nicole the benefit of the doubt. She's not cut from the same cloth as savedbyfear or troy or pug. Those guys are over the top.

 

It's always the same with them. We gave up because we failed the time of testing.

 

Have a clue, thumpers. We didn't give up. We escaped.

[Ouroboros]

Have a clue, thumpers.  We didn't give up.  We escaped.

Or we just dropped the extra weight.

 

Jesus said, that his cross was easy, but I realized that not carrying a cross at all was even easier.

[BeccasStillSeeking]

For now, I'm gonna give Nicole the benefit of the doubt.  She's not cut from the same cloth as savedbyfear or troy or pug.  Those guys are over the top.

 

It's always the same with them.  We gave up because we failed the time of testing.

 

Have a clue, thumpers.  We didn't give up.  We escaped.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Feh. Even if that were true, if someone gets "tested" so hard that it's leave the faith or kill themselves, what's the point?

[Guest queen annie]

I don't twist people's words, but perhaps I've misunderstood you, if so, I am sorry. Are you a universalist concerning the bible?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a hard time describing my perspective and understanding with categories and labels (which usually have an 'ism' or an 'ist' tacked onto the end).

 

I'm not criticizing your question, though--I understand that labels also describe for the purpose of explaining things in a relatively specific manner. I just wanted to offer some further definition by way of sharing with you my aversion to definitions of that sort.

 

My comment about twisting words was more to get your attention than to accuse you in any way--I've been told a I have a somewhat sharp tongue and I must admit I do enjoy using it. IOW, why beat around the bush when you can stab right through it?!?

 

I got carried away with my answer, and so I decided to apply my efforts toward my first thread on this forum, since it is both off-topic as well as potentially of no interest to anyone else outside of curiosity about what I believe and why I defend the bible but consider it blasphemy to call myself something like a christian.

 

I'll just post this link where it's at and continue there.

[Guest queen annie]

And no one can un-de-convert.

No doubt! It's funny how we are most readily deceived of ourselves in many situations, yet when we happen to get a glimpse of reliable truth that we cannot deny, we cannot seem to talk ourselves back into believing the delusion. It seems like that might be a bit of evidence in our favor--to the effect of 'no one wants to fool themselves, or anyone else... but we just can't always see as well as we'd like to think we are.'

 

I'm definitely not closed of, but if I gonna believe in something, then it be rather darn good argument to convince me.

I'd have to say, judging strictly from the basis of my own experience, that an argument will never satisfy such a concept--experience is the only source of conviction for the deeper things which are not provable outside of our own heart/mind.

 

 

Are you a Gnostic Christian or Mandean or so?

Last I checked, I was a Scotch-Irish mystic from New Mexico.

 

 

 

(Last week someone asked me if I was a 'preterist' (had to look that one up -- and I still couldn't tell you what it signifies in a theological sense LOL)

and I had a pretty good answer, so I thought I'd use it again. Hope you don't mind my poking at you.)

 

 

HEY! That's what I said in one of my other posts today! That must be a sign! If two or three agrees, then it's true!!!

*Wow* that's actually twice that has happened--a few minutes ago I posted a reply to you on another thread along the lines of professing some sort of synchronicity and/or synergy with you. Hmmm.... It would seem it doesn't matter how many there are--if we continue to agree like this we can just say we're right and back each other up. It seems to work in politics and religion (which, IMO are basically the same thing--the latter being dosed with a healthy shot of superstition)

 

 

Eh. No. We do throw tomatoes, even at each other all the time!

I've learned that if you can get the timing down pretty good some forums actually can make someone like me a quick and tasty salad!