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Goodbye Jesus

Pertinent Questions for Christians


Vulgaris Prime

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Direct from the LiveJournal of an online friend of mine, I give you:

 

QUESTIONS!

 

I put the "FUN" in "Fundamentalism"...

 

Just for fun, here are a few questions you can try asking the Religious Right type in your life. It's easy and it's fun!

 

1. If "life begins at conception," then why do even you folks define and celebrate birthdays as the day we're taken from our mother's womb, rather than the day our fertilized egg begins the process of cell division? Should we all add nine months to our ages?

 

2. If God makes people, and if homosexuality can be conclusively proven to be the result of physical factors rather than a person's choice, then why would God hate someone He created to the point He asks His followers to destroy it?

 

(2a. For that matter, why is it the homosexuals you like to discriminate against the most are almost invariably male? Does God have a yuri fetish? Or is lesbianism simply more acceptable to you, because it's easier on your "almost invariably male" eyes?)

 

3. When you proclaim America as "God's country," do you suppose the Vatican might have something to say about that? Or maybe one of the Middle Eastern countries that, I dunno, were actually represented in the Bible?

 

4. Here's one of my favorites: The Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill." Does this apply to the death penalty, or the many times people throughout history have killed in God's name? (The Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials come to mind.)

 

5. If the only way into Heaven is to be born again through Jesus Christ, then what happened to people like Noah, Abraham, or Moses?

 

6. If God cares about who's President the way you say He does, then why were Pat Robertson's bids for the Oval Office all failures of Ishtar-ian proportions? I mean, if prayer can affect the weather, then surely it can influence the outcome of a simple national referendum...

 

7. Another personal favorite: Did Adam and Eve have navels?

 

8. Finally, if Jesus Christ was the Son of God... who was the mother?

 

Special offer, today only: Ask any of these questions at your local Baptist church and recieve a free argument. ^^

 

And my responses, indexed by number.

 

1: GET OUT OF MY HEAD. I was thinking this as I saw one of those stupid, pithy, not-worth-a-damn-unless-you-have-a-crowbar anti-choice bumper stickers today.

 

2: Typical fundie response: "But they CHOOSE to be homos! GAAAAWD wouldn't make them that way, it's all Satan's fault!!11"

 

And God asking his followers to hate or destroy that which he has made isn't new.

 

2a: Well, the Bible doesn't really say anything about lesbians... (doesn't really say anything about gay men, either, but try telling the fundies that)

 

3: TFR: "But America is GAAAAAAAAWD'S COUNTRY! We know because we don't have them evil amoral freedoms like them hellbound Europeans! And we know that America was founded by GAAAAAAWD-FEARING CHRISTIANS!!!11"

 

4: Yeah, you try to tell any Biblical literalist or hyper-Xtian that, you'll get this exact response: "It really says that you can't MURDER people." Nebver mind that these are people who say that the Bible is the infallible, unerring, exact word of God - in their eyes it doesn't say not to kill there, even though it does EXACTLY: Exodus 20:13 - "Thou shalt not kill." Not "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill unless thou killeth an abortion doctor or convict", just "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". No strings, no conditions, that's IT. (Odd part is, God commands his people to kill after this.)

 

You point that out, though, and they'll just tell you you aren't one of them and you don't know.

 

5: I think they get a free pass for being on God's good side already.

 

6: Maybe God just hates that fat terrorist slob.

 

7: <voice style="stoner>Whoa, you just melted my brain, man!</voice>

 

8: Probably the woman who popped his divine ass out of her crotch.

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Hello Vulgaris Prime!

1. If "life begins at conception," then why do even you folks define and celebrate birthdays as the day we're taken from our mother's womb, rather than the day our fertilized egg begins the process of cell division? Should we all add nine months to our ages?

I wondered about this too. It occurred to me that the only true pro-lifers are the Catholic... and maybe Mormons... and we see how that ideology turns out. It seems like everyone else is just trying to draw their own line somewhere. I remember when there were IUDs... yet no one said anything about that.

2. If God makes people, and if homosexuality can be conclusively proven to be the result of physical factors rather than a person's choice, then why would God hate someone He created to the point He asks His followers to destroy it?

Even IF it is choice... so what? I don't think the NT says anything about destroying homosexually oriented people... :shrug:

3. When you proclaim America as "God's country," do you suppose the Vatican might have something to say about that? Or maybe one of the Middle Eastern countries that, I dunno, were actually represented in the Bible?

I don't think we claim it as God's country. Maybe we would like to refer to it as one nation under God.

4. Here's one of my favorites: The Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill." Does this apply to the death penalty, or the many times people throughout history have killed in God's name? (The Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials come to mind.)

I remember reading a Suffi's remark to this, and thinking of it moreso for Osama Bin Laden. They said to determine what is right or wrong is elementary. Sometimes our choices are of the lesser of two wrong actions. It said that if our enemy comes by us and we kill him, then we are guilty of killing one person. If our enemy comes by us and we do not kill our enemy, and our enemy kills a hundred people... then how many deaths are we guilty?

5. If the only way into Heaven is to be born again through Jesus Christ, then what happened to people like Noah, Abraham, or Moses?

EVERYONE was predestined back to God before the foundation of the world, IMHO.

6. If God cares about who's President the way you say He does, then why were Pat Robertson's bids for the Oval Office all failures of Ishtar-ian proportions? I mean, if prayer can affect the weather, then surely it can influence the outcome of a simple national referendum...

Maybe we were praying he wouldn't get it. :Hmm:

:wicked::HaHa:

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If our enemy comes by us and we do not kill our enemy, and our enemy kills a hundred people... then how many deaths are we guilty?

 

But then again, if you don't love your enemies as Jesus has commanded, then you are therebye disobeying god and therefore you are sinning, and your ass is still going to hell. :woohoo:

 

Kill'em or love'em, you're still going to wind up being guilty/unclean/unworthy of something.

 

Go ahead...

 

Show me the Absolute Morality™ in this case. :mellow:

 

 

 

Better yet, don't show me. Your explanations tend to make me want to curl up in a corner and mumble to myself for days on end. :twitch:

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Hello Fweethawt!

But then again, if you don't love your enemies as Jesus has commanded, then you are therebye disobeying god and therefore you are sinning, and your ass is still going to hell.  :woohoo:

I believe hell is moreso an internal state... and if I killed someone, even in self defense... I know it would have some degree of impact for taking a life. How about you Fweethawt?

Kill'em or love'em, you're still going to wind up being guilty/unclean/unworthy of something.

Fweethawt, I'm curious to know what you would do if it was positively Osama Bin Laden in your presence, in your country, you have a gun, no time to call for help or he will get away... what would you recommend your own actions be? IF you decided to do nothing, and he bombs a building the next day where a thousand people die... how would you feel then? Just curious...

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Hello Fweethawt!

 

I believe hell is moreso an internal state... and if I killed someone, even in self defense... I know it would have some degree of impact for taking a life. How about you Fweethawt?

You ignored what I said. From a biblical point of view, you're fucked either way. This has nothing to do with how one feels after killing someone.

 

Fweethawt, I'm curious to know what you would do if it was positively Osama Bin Laden in your presence, in your country, you have a gun, no time to call for help or he will get away... what would you recommend your own actions be? IF you decided to do nothing, and he bombs a building the next day where a thousand people die... how would you feel then? Just curious...
How long have you been here, Amanda? Don't you know by now what a 'dodge' is? Once again, you ignored what I said.

 

<<<twitch>>> <--- See? Look! It's starting already!

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Just for fun, here are my answers...

 

1. If "life begins at conception," then why do even you folks define and celebrate birthdays as the day we're taken from our mother's womb, rather than the day our fertilized egg begins the process of cell division? Should we all add nine months to our ages? Chinese people actually add 1 year to their ages. Anyway does it matter? Age is also man-made.

 

2. If God makes people, and if homosexuality can be conclusively proven to be the result of physical factors rather than a person's choice, then why would God hate someone He created to the point He asks His followers to destroy it? BUT has it been conclusively proven to be the result of other factors than by choice?

 

(2a. For that matter, why is it the homosexuals you like to discriminate against the most are almost invariably male? Does God have a yuri fetish? Or is lesbianism simply more acceptable to you, because it's easier on your "almost invariably male" eyes?) Because males have been chosen to head the family.

 

3. When you proclaim America as "God's country," do you suppose the Vatican might have something to say about that? Or maybe one of the Middle Eastern countries that, I dunno, were actually represented in the Bible? Over zealous Americans! The world is God's! Well ok, Israel. But NT states Christianity is not just for Jews but for Gentiles too.

 

4. Here's one of my favorites: The Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill." Does this apply to the death penalty, or the many times people throughout history have killed in God's name? (The Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials come to mind.) That's the Commandment. If other Christians don't follow it ~ I can't answer for them.

 

5. If the only way into Heaven is to be born again through Jesus Christ, then what happened to people like Noah, Abraham, or Moses? OT people. Old program. Their entrance ticket is up to God's grace.

 

6. If God cares about who's President the way you say He does, then why were Pat Robertson's bids for the Oval Office all failures of Ishtar-ian proportions? I mean, if prayer can affect the weather, then surely it can influence the outcome of a simple national referendum... God answers prayers in His own way and time. Follow this link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestud...les/041215.html

 

7. Another personal favorite: Did Adam and Eve have navels? IMHO no! Or maybe yes, just for fun!

 

8. Finally, if Jesus Christ was the Son of God... who was the mother? No need! Not necessary.

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Just for fun, here are my answers...

 

(2a. For that matter, why is it the homosexuals you like to discriminate against the most are almost invariably male? Does God have a yuri fetish? Or is lesbianism simply more acceptable to you, because it's easier on your "almost invariably male" eyes?) Because males have been chosen to head the family.

 

Wow. As Clover from Totally Spies would say, "Sexist much?"

 

6. If God cares about who's President the way you say He does, then why were Pat Robertson's bids for the Oval Office all failures of Ishtar-ian proportions? I mean, if prayer can affect the weather, then surely it can influence the outcome of a simple national referendum... God answers prayers in His own way and time. Follow this link: (URL REMOVED)

 

NO SPAMMING! Either put up a real answer or don't answer at all!

 

8. Finally, if Jesus Christ was the Son of God... who was the mother? No need! Not necessary.

 

So, is that the reason why he needed some virgin to randomly pop out his kid? Odd thing, that - wouldn't you think that the one who carries him IS his mother?

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Just for fun, here are my answers...

 

(2a. For that matter, why is it the homosexuals you like to discriminate against the most are almost invariably male? Does God have a yuri fetish? Or is lesbianism simply more acceptable to you, because it's easier on your "almost invariably male" eyes?) Because males have been chosen to head the family.

 

Wow. As Clover from Totally Spies would say, "Sexist much?"

 

NO SPAMMING! Either put up a real answer or don't answer at all!

So, is that the reason why he needed some virgin to randomly pop out his kid? Odd thing, that - wouldn't you think that the one who carries him IS his mother?

 

 

Sexist is man-made. OOoops...oxymoron term.

 

Mary is JC's human mother on earth. My answer refers to JC's Heavenly mother. No, He does not have one in Heaven.

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Wow.  As Clover from Totally Spies would say, "Sexist much?"

Sexist is man-made. OOoops...oxymoron term.

 

Could you do me a big favor and MAKE SENSE? All I can get out of that statement is that you're trying to defend sexism, and even then I'm not sure.

 

And learn to quote correctly.

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Hello Vulgaris Prime!

Even IF it is choice... so what? I don't think the NT says anything about destroying homosexually oriented people...  :shrug:

 

Then what about Soddom & Gomorrah? And Leviticus says homosexuals should be destroyed:

 

20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

But of course, that's old school. Obviously that should be ignored in favour of Paul merely condemning homosexuals, saying they're worthy of death, and that being homosexual will keep you out of Heaven as well as making you profane.

 

2. If God makes people, and if homosexuality can be conclusively proven to be the result of physical factors rather than a person's choice, then why would God hate someone He created to the point He asks His followers to destroy it? BUT has it been conclusively proven to be the result of other factors than by choice?

 

So what difference does that make in what's been asked?  If God created everyone, He created the capability for homosexuality and gave us the choice.  Ergo, God created homosexuality.  Just as He created would have created hypocrisy.

 

(2a. For that matter, why is it the homosexuals you like to discriminate against the most are almost invariably male? Does God have a yuri fetish? Or is lesbianism simply more acceptable to you, because it's easier on your "almost invariably male" eyes?) Because males have been chosen to head the family.

 

"Chosen."  Chosen where?  Because Adam the whiny bitch was created first out of worm shit?    If you know of Jewish apocrypha, Lilith, Adam's first wife, was as strong as he was.  He tried to force her to submit, and she refused, knowing they were equals. 

 

 

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5. If the only way into Heaven is to be born again through Jesus Christ, then what happened to people like Noah, Abraham, or Moses? OT people. Old program. Their entrance ticket is up to God's grace.

 

 

There is no grace of god here. People were rewarded on the basis of their deed.

 

Ezek 18:20-22

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

 

Psa 119:1-5

Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Blessed are they that keep his testimonies(laws), and that seek him with the whole heart.

They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Thou(God) hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.

O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!

 

 

Following the law was a source of salvation for the Jews. That is what got them into heaven.

 

Judaism 101

 

Pritish

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2 Timothy 1:9

 

who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

 

2 Timothy 1:8-10 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

Romans 11:6

 

And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:5-7 (in Context) Romans 11

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Sexist is man-made. OOoops...oxymoron term.

 

Could you do me a big favor and MAKE SENSE? All I can get out of that statement is that you're trying to defend sexism, and even then I'm not sure.

 

And learn to quote correctly.

 

 

I'm not defending sexism. And I do not wish to debate who is MORE equal than the other. :thanks:

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"Chosen." Chosen where? Because Adam the whiny bitch was created first out of worm shit? If you know of Jewish apocrypha, Lilith, Adam's first wife, was as strong as he was. He tried to force her to submit, and she refused, knowing they were equals.

 

 

HERE:

 

1 Corinthians 11:3

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

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See? Supporting sexism.

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See?  Supporting sexism.

 

Yup, you can quote scripture all you want, but it's still inherently sexist.

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See?  Supporting sexism.

 

See? It's a quote to show him what the Scripture has recorded. Perhaps, in the end, it does not matter, we'll all be sex-less in Heaven (guessing...). :shrug:

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See? It's a quote to show him what the Scripture has recorded. Perhaps, in the end, it does not matter, we'll all be sex-less in Heaven (guessing...).  :shrug:

 

Right, and what we're saying to you is that the Scripture is inherently sexist. And anything that promotes a negative stigma like this can hardly be the creation of a perfect being.

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7. Another personal favorite: Did Adam and Eve have navels?

according to [catholic] apologetics - no.

 

8. Finally, if Jesus Christ was the Son of God... who was the mother?

mary. why is that even a question? it even says so in the bible, if i recall correctly.

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1 Corinthians 11:3

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

 

So you believe that to be true just because you've read it on a book that you've been *taught* to consider god's word just as the kur-an has been *taught* to the muslims to be god's word?

So, um, what if I consider "the neverending story" god's word? Let's all worship the almighty Luck Dragon! :grin:

I mean... come on.

It is just a book. You have no proof of it being god's word more than muslims have proof of the kur-an being god's word. So why do you believe it and not the kur-an? Or the Neverending story? :)

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Right, and what we're saying to you is that the Scripture is inherently sexist. And anything that promotes a negative stigma like this can hardly be the creation of a perfect being.

 

Right, and if the females were named the heads, the males will similarly throw a hissy fit about the Scripture being sexist!

 

And how do you know this is not part of His plan? It's not over yet you know.

 

And like I suggested, it does not matter, we may be sexless in His Kingdom. But then again, some wise person may whine why eternal life... so boring... give us death.

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So you believe that to be true just because you've read it on a book that you've been *taught* to consider god's word just as the kur-an has been *taught* to the muslims to be god's word?

So, um, what if I consider "the neverending story" god's word? Let's all worship the almighty Luck Dragon!  :grin:

I mean... come on.

It is just a book. You have no proof of it being god's word more than muslims have proof of the kur-an being god's word. So why do you believe it and not the kur-an? Or the Neverending story? :)

 

Yes, it's just a book. I am one of those Christians who think that the Bible is just my holy guide.

 

Umm... i do not follow or believe the quran or never-ending story because my God told me not to.

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Right, and if the females were named the heads, the males will similarly throw a hissy fit about the Scripture being sexist!

 

And how do you know this is not part of His plan? It's not over yet you know.

 

And like I suggested, it does not matter, we may be sexless in His Kingdom. But then again, some wise person may whine why eternal life... so boring... give us death.

 

Right, but the whole point is, the shoe isn't on the other foot. And according to your Bible, it will never be on the other foot. And, in fact, when matriarchial societies were the norm, violence was not as common as it is now.

 

And the whole sexless thing is just you dreaming. There's nothing that I've seen in the Bible to indicate that that is what's going to occur. And if there is, I'd gather it a tiny scripture in a massive book that only loosely supports it by happenstance or if you play with the semantics.

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Yes, it's just a book. I am one of those Christians who think that the Bible is just my holy guide.

 

Well that is at least better than thinking it is the inerrant word of god.

 

Umm... i do not follow or believe the quran or never-ending story because my God told me not to.

 

Hmm. An interesting approach.

I don't know if you have been raised as a christian of have been converted later in life. However, assuming it's the second case, what if a muslim had come to you and converted you before the christians had a chance to do that?

It's safe to assume that you, as muslims do, would now follow and believe the quran and reject the bible, don't you think?

So in the end you are saying that... you believe the bible to be your holy guide just because the christians managed to convert you before the muslims did so? Is it, in fact, a sort of race, and you believe the christian tenets just because the christians won the race? :grin:

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But of course, that's old school.  Obviously that should be ignored in favour of Paul merely condemning homosexuals, saying they're worthy of death, and that being homosexual will keep you out of Heaven as well as making you profane.

Sokudo Ningyou, if you're talking about Romans 1 popularly used in this regards, I don't think that Paul was speaking about homosexuality. It seems to me he was speaking of the 'judgemental condemning religous right'. That's why the very first verse in chapter 2 says if we judge them, then we're no better than they are. How could that possibly make sense in reference to homosexuality?

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