What Exactly Do I Believe?

[Shyone]

God damn I hate me. I'm sick of looking at my worn out stressed face in the mirror. Everywhere I go I'm like a walking zombie, it's like I forgot how to feel normal. I am such a fucking loser, on so many levels.

Try looking into a mirror and seeing an old geezer staring back at you.

 

I could focus on my faults, my shortcomings, my failures and my ambitions that have crumbled, but I won't. And I don't see you as a loser. With only your writing to go by, I see an intellect, intensely searching, logical and patient. Your patience is really something in the face of some replies you have gotten, but you have been considerate and thoughtful.

 

I know that some day you will look in that mirror and see what someone else sees in you that you never thought of; It will be a good day. A day to relish, remember, and learn from.

 

You have a lot to learn.

[renoliz]

Just checking in with you P.I. - Sounds like the people here are giving You good thouhgts and advice. I wouldn't discount agnosticator when he says eventually this will all fade away. He is being truthful about his experiences.

 

I don't think you are a loser. I think you are just putting negative spin on things.

 

For instance, I live in a mobile home in tiny no-wheres-ville desert town. Do I kick myself for not having a mansion and living in Beverly Hills. I do not. My home is very pretty and it is warm in the winter and cool in the summer and I have created for not too much money a covered breezeway and I built a greenhouse and lots of cool things I would never have done living somewhere else. Also, I have a clean house and clean water and good food. There have been times when I didn't have a nice place to live. And there are lots of people who don't have a nice place to live or clean water or nice food.

 

I could think "What a loser." or I could think, "Boy, am I fortunate." To me life is often a matter of perspective. Abraham Linclon said, "Most people are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." I think that is true.

 

I totally agree with what Shyone just said about the good qualities that are showing in your writings.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Try looking into a mirror and seeing an old geezer staring back at you.

 

I'll probably be in the same position by then.

 

I could focus on my faults, my shortcomings, my failures and my ambitions that have crumbled, but I won't. And I don't see you as a loser. With only your writing to go by, I see an intellect, intensely searching, logical and patient. Your patience is really something in the face of some replies you have gotten, but you have been considerate and thoughtful.

 

I don't know, I don't really see it that way. I see a lot of failure, and very little good. And I defintely wouldn't say I've been patient.

 

I know that some day you will look in that mirror and see what someone else sees in you that you never thought of; It will be a good day. A day to relish, remember, and learn from.

 

I look forward to that day.

 

You have a lot to learn.

 

I sure do.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Just checking in with you P.I. - Sounds like the people here are giving You good thouhgts and advice. I wouldn't discount agnosticator when he says eventually this will all fade away. He is being truthful about his experiences.

 

Not everybody's experiences are the same, though.

 

I don't think you are a loser. I think you are just putting negative spin on things.

 

I know I'm a loser - I'm just trying to find a way to change that.

 

For instance, I live in a mobile home in tiny no-wheres-ville desert town. Do I kick myself for not having a mansion and living in Beverly Hills. I do not. My home is very pretty and it is warm in the winter and cool in the summer and I have created for not too much money a covered breezeway and I built a greenhouse and lots of cool things I would never have done living somewhere else. Also, I have a clean house and clean water and good food. There have been times when I didn't have a nice place to live. And there are lots of people who don't have a nice place to live or clean water or nice food.

 

I could think "What a loser." or I could think, "Boy, am I fortunate." To me life is often a matter of perspective. Abraham Linclon said, "Most people are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." I think that is true.

 

Whether or not a person is a loser has nothing to do with what they do or do not own, or how much money they have, but who they are as a person.

 

I totally agree with what Shyone just said about the good qualities that are showing in your writings.

 

I don't see it. Especially in my first thread, all I did was bitch and moan about my problems, and when advice was offered, I would (unconsciously, I think) reject it. With some of the things I was saying, some were questioning me, thinking I might be a troll. When I look back, I don't blame them for thinking that.

[renoliz]

PI - Well, you have one important fact of life figured out. It is not the home you live in, the car you drive or the money in your pocket that makes you a winner. I know plenty of people who haven't figured that out yet.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

PI - Well, you have one important fact of life figured out. It is not the home you live in, the car you drive or the money in your pocket that makes you a winner. I know plenty of people who haven't figured that out yet.

 

That's one of the few things that I know for a fact. I'd rather have a dollar in my pocket and have joy and meaning, than to have all the money in the world and be empty. Unfortunately, I'm very empty at the moment, so what I'm saying doesn't mean much coming from me.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Emptiness..... I've always felt empty, even as a Christian. What will fill this void? What will patch up all the insecurities, failures, and hatred of self?

[Shyone]

Emptiness..... I've always felt empty, even as a Christian. What will fill this void? What will patch up all the insecurities, failures, and hatred of self?

Different things for different people.

 

It's not easy to make recommendations because recommendations almost have to come from our own preferences. If I could distill the process of filling a void in one short phrase, it would be: Set Goals.

 

Most people do that automatically. We have long term goals, short term goals, and change goals as often as necessary depending on circumstances. There are times in our lives when we don't feel that we are sufficiently in control to make any plans for the future. Those are tough times, but you can still figure out your interests.

 

Once you have a vague idea, you start seeing what it involves, what it takes to achieve, and what the consequences of it are. Always have a Plan B if it turns out your goal is not what you had hoped for, or if it is unachievable.

 

Want to be Pope? President? Computer graphics artist for movies or games? Hospital administrator?

 

What are you having for lunch tomorrow? With whom? Where?

 

What plans for the weekend? Or vacation?

 

I'm contemplating another video. I may never make it, but I'm going through my mind what it would take, whether it would be meaningful or helpful to anyone, and generally how I would approach the subject. It's a way of organizing my thoughts. And I inevitably learn while I'm going things like that. I can even sometimes prove myself wrong if I'm trying to prove a particular point.

 

Sometimes just taking a walk is helpful. Getting away from my minor concerns or even my plans gives me a new perspective. Sometimes I listen to music and see what I like, save some, edit some, or even write some.

 

The other day I wrote a Haiku poem just to see if I could do it. I like what I wrote, but I have no plans now to write any more. I don't even generally like poetry, and I'm surely not an expert. But it was fun - even more so when I read what I wrote.

 

Obviously, there isn't any single way to "fill the void." You just do stuff, and the void is filled.

[Deva]

Just an observation. Pardon me if I am too direct.

 

Perfect Insanity - while you may not know what you believe about religious matters and the nature of god and the universe, you have some very definite and profoundly certain convictions about what you, yourself are. A "loser" etc...

 

I only wish you could question that as much as you do the other religious explanations you have heard and reject.

 

What would be a "winner'? Do you think that a winner must have absolute certainty and that will fill the void?

 

I am just trying to throw some questions out and ask if you would think about them.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Different things for different people.

 

It's not easy to make recommendations because recommendations almost have to come from our own preferences. If I could distill the process of filling a void in one short phrase, it would be: Set Goals.

 

Most people do that automatically. We have long term goals, short term goals, and change goals as often as necessary depending on circumstances. There are times in our lives when we don't feel that we are sufficiently in control to make any plans for the future. Those are tough times, but you can still figure out your interests.

 

Once you have a vague idea, you start seeing what it involves, what it takes to achieve, and what the consequences of it are. Always have a Plan B if it turns out your goal is not what you had hoped for, or if it is unachievable.

 

Want to be Pope? President? Computer graphics artist for movies or games? Hospital administrator?

 

What are you having for lunch tomorrow? With whom? Where?

 

What plans for the weekend? Or vacation?

 

I'm contemplating another video. I may never make it, but I'm going through my mind what it would take, whether it would be meaningful or helpful to anyone, and generally how I would approach the subject. It's a way of organizing my thoughts. And I inevitably learn while I'm going things like that. I can even sometimes prove myself wrong if I'm trying to prove a particular point.

 

Sometimes just taking a walk is helpful. Getting away from my minor concerns or even my plans gives me a new perspective. Sometimes I listen to music and see what I like, save some, edit some, or even write some.

 

The other day I wrote a Haiku poem just to see if I could do it. I like what I wrote, but I have no plans now to write any more. I don't even generally like poetry, and I'm surely not an expert. But it was fun - even more so when I read what I wrote.

 

Obviously, there isn't any single way to "fill the void." You just do stuff, and the void is filled.

 

I understand what you're saying. Actually, I think I know what a few of the missing pieces are. But something tells me, even after that, there would still be something missing. Something bigger. But apparently it's not salvation through Jesus Christ, because that clearly didn't work... it gave the opposite effect, it backfired, it created a void.

 

 

Just an observation. Pardon me if I am too direct.

 

Perfect Insanity - while you may not know what you believe about religious matters and the nature of god and the universe, you have some very definite and profoundly certain convictions about what you, yourself are. A "loser" etc...

 

I only wish you could question that as much as you do the other religious explanations you have heard and reject.

 

What would be a "winner'? Do you think that a winner must have absolute certainty and that will fill the void?

 

I am just trying to throw some questions out and ask if you would think about them.

 

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a loser. That's not up for debate. I can see that, clear as day, when looking back through my life. The question is not "am I a loser" but "how can I change". For various reasons, I know I am a loser, I know that more than I know anything. I won't try to convince myself otherwise, because I would be lying to myself. All I can do is attempt to change.... so far, I suck at trying. You asked me, what would be a winner.... That's not something I know how to answer. That can vary in different people. I don't know how to answer that question. I could make a list explaing why, but meh....

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I feel like I've lost my soul. Like the life has been sucked out of me. Like I'm walking dead. I feel like shit. Such a failure..... Such a loser.... Such a dumbass.... Even when trying to do things to get my mind off myself, all I can do is isolate myself, sit down, and hang my head down. I can't snap out of it. I can't break these chains. I don't know what is wrong with me. I don't know why I'm posting this. Outside these forums, I have no one I can talk to that is open minded enough to actually listen to what I'm saying. I want to choke the life out of whatever the source of this problem is.

[Guest Valk0010]

I feel like I've lost my soul. Like the life has been sucked out of me. Like I'm walking dead. I feel like shit. Such a failure..... Such a loser.... Such a dumbass.... Even when trying to do things to get my mind off myself, all I can do is isolate myself, sit down, and hang my head down. I can't snap out of it. I can't break these chains. I don't know what is wrong with me. I don't know why I'm posting this. Outside these forums, I have no one I can talk to that is open minded enough to actually listen to what I'm saying. I want to choke the life out of whatever the source of this problem is.

To me this sounds like really really bad depression, I dunno.

[Shyone]

I feel like I've lost my soul. Like the life has been sucked out of me. Like I'm walking dead. I feel like shit. Such a failure..... Such a loser.... Such a dumbass.... Even when trying to do things to get my mind off myself, all I can do is isolate myself, sit down, and hang my head down. I can't snap out of it. I can't break these chains. I don't know what is wrong with me. I don't know why I'm posting this. Outside these forums, I have no one I can talk to that is open minded enough to actually listen to what I'm saying. I want to choke the life out of whatever the source of this problem is.

Nothing can replace real human contact. I am fortunate to have lived long enough to see suffering, and I have found that I think much less of my own suffering. I made the relief of suffering my life's goal, but I had no idea about what I was going to see when I was in high school. I just knew I didn't want to be a priest (even though I believed every tale I had been told).

 

Sometimes you have to step outside of your comfort zone, your shell, to gain perspective. It may seem pointless to make sandwiches for the homeless - until you see them eat. It may seem like a waste of time to care for animals in a shelter - until you appreciate that they want to live.

 

If you have time, spend it with people, even if you don't know them. There is work to be done.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I feel like I've lost my soul. Like the life has been sucked out of me. Like I'm walking dead. I feel like shit. Such a failure..... Such a loser.... Such a dumbass.... Even when trying to do things to get my mind off myself, all I can do is isolate myself, sit down, and hang my head down. I can't snap out of it. I can't break these chains. I don't know what is wrong with me. I don't know why I'm posting this. Outside these forums, I have no one I can talk to that is open minded enough to actually listen to what I'm saying. I want to choke the life out of whatever the source of this problem is.

To me this sounds like really really bad depression, I dunno.

 

That much I already figured out.

 

I feel like I've lost my soul. Like the life has been sucked out of me. Like I'm walking dead. I feel like shit. Such a failure..... Such a loser.... Such a dumbass.... Even when trying to do things to get my mind off myself, all I can do is isolate myself, sit down, and hang my head down. I can't snap out of it. I can't break these chains. I don't know what is wrong with me. I don't know why I'm posting this. Outside these forums, I have no one I can talk to that is open minded enough to actually listen to what I'm saying. I want to choke the life out of whatever the source of this problem is.

Nothing can replace real human contact. I am fortunate to have lived long enough to see suffering, and I have found that I think much less of my own suffering. I made the relief of suffering my life's goal, but I had no idea about what I was going to see when I was in high school. I just knew I didn't want to be a priest (even though I believed every tale I had been told).

 

Sometimes you have to step outside of your comfort zone, your shell, to gain perspective. It may seem pointless to make sandwiches for the homeless - until you see them eat. It may seem like a waste of time to care for animals in a shelter - until you appreciate that they want to live.

 

If you have time, spend it with people, even if you don't know them. There is work to be done.

 

Eh, the good things in life are usually the things that make me depressed, so I might as well go show myself some human suffering or something. Maybe the sick twisted little fuck I am might get cheered up by it.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I find it odd that almost everything in life brings me down.

 

Seeing people enjoying themselves, that brings me down.

 

Seeing happy couples, that brings me down.

 

Seeing other people suceed in their goals, while I fail at my own, that brings me down.

 

History brings me down.

 

Religion brings me down, a lot.

 

Seeing deeply religious people brings me down, because it reminds me of the inner misery that I felt trying to live that kind of life. It also makes me feel that they're better than me, and I'm some worthless heathen.

 

Seeing a good movie brings me down.

 

Going to nice places brings me down and makes me feel empty, for reasons I don't understand.

 

Looking at my own face in the mirror brings me down, a lot.

 

Hearing myself talk brings me down and makes me angry.

 

Having to watch myself wear different masks around different people makes me very angry. It's gone on so long I don't know how to control it.

 

Seeing an attractive girl brings me down, because I feel that attraction is fueled by nothing but sin, and that I'm not meant to feel that way.

 

Reading the Bible brings me down, for obvious reasons.

 

A large part of American culture brings me down.

 

Almost everything under the sun brings me down. Makes me depressed. I can't snap out of it. What the hell is wrong with me?

 

I'm empty... worthless.... unfulfilled.... religion makes it worse.... Seeing the best that this life has to offer just makes me feel.... down..... because..... I don't know why. I hate the person that is unfortunately me.

[Guest Valk0010]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

 

If I'm treatment resistant, how can I get treated?

[Guest Valk0010]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

 

If I'm treatment resistant, how can I get treated?

People that are treatment resistant, usually have a very very hard time, finding proper medication. So if you fail a lot on finding meds, that means your treatment resistant.

 

You just got to keep trying different meds and dosages till you find what you need.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

 

If I'm treatment resistant, how can I get treated?

People that are treatment resistant, usually have a very very hard time, finding proper medication. So if you fail a lot on finding meds, that means your treatment resistant.

 

You just got to keep trying different meds and dosages till you find what you need.

 

At times I feel like I can fight it with one hand behind my back, by sheer willpower alone. At other times, I feel like I couldn't overcome it, even with the best help, resources, and medications in the world. My level of optimism/pessimism varies at different times. I'll be at my most broken state, then I'll slowly work my way up to the "I can do this, there is hope" position.... and then, right when I almost get to that position of hope.... I fall. Hard. To my most broken, hopeless, depressed state. Then I'll very slowly start to work my way up again. It's a cycle.

[Guest Valk0010]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

 

If I'm treatment resistant, how can I get treated?

People that are treatment resistant, usually have a very very hard time, finding proper medication. So if you fail a lot on finding meds, that means your treatment resistant.

 

You just got to keep trying different meds and dosages till you find what you need.

 

At times I feel like I can fight it with one hand behind my back, by sheer willpower alone. At other times, I feel like I couldn't overcome it, even with the best help, resources, and medications in the world. My level of optimism/pessimism varies at different times. I'll be at my most broken state, then I'll slowly work my way up to the "I can do this, there is hope" position.... and then, right when I almost get to that position of hope.... I fall. Hard. To my most broken, hopeless, depressed state. Then I'll very slowly start to work my way up again. It's a cycle.

But keep trying, you will find the stuff you need.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What you are saying is a perfect case, of what I understand, of extreme depression. You got to get treated man, you might be treatment resistant, but you got to get treated.

 

If I'm treatment resistant, how can I get treated?

People that are treatment resistant, usually have a very very hard time, finding proper medication. So if you fail a lot on finding meds, that means your treatment resistant.

 

You just got to keep trying different meds and dosages till you find what you need.

 

At times I feel like I can fight it with one hand behind my back, by sheer willpower alone. At other times, I feel like I couldn't overcome it, even with the best help, resources, and medications in the world. My level of optimism/pessimism varies at different times. I'll be at my most broken state, then I'll slowly work my way up to the "I can do this, there is hope" position.... and then, right when I almost get to that position of hope.... I fall. Hard. To my most broken, hopeless, depressed state. Then I'll very slowly start to work my way up again. It's a cycle.

But keep trying, you will find the stuff you need.

 

Will I? I'm not so sure. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't. As I said a long time ago, time will tell. So far, time has told me "no."

[DesertBob]

At times I feel like I can fight it with one hand behind my back, by sheer willpower alone. At other times, I feel like I couldn't overcome it, even with the best help, resources, and medications in the world...It's a cycle.

I think you have multiple things going on at the same time ... but I notice a theme that weaves its way through everything you've posted, and it's this: "I don't know what [i'm supposed] to believe".

 

Let me suggest an idea to you: there is no given truth, not even any given reality, that is "out there" for the finding. Realizing this might be quite liberating for you, because it removes the performance anxiety of "getting it right" and the fear of making "one false move".

 

My experience has been that I find my own way. I make mistakes, and I adjust for them, and try again. Rinse and repeat. Don't judge yourself for making mistakes, and don't accept the judgment of others. And realize that you are much, much, more resilient than you probably give yourself credit for.

 

Living life is like reading a book -- I've never read a book that I didn't end up just borrowing a coupe of key ideas from. A nugget here, a nugget there. There are things you like about Christianity, and things you hate. Borrow the things you like. Ignore the things you hate, while keeping an open mind that might be changed someday by new evidence and perspectives that you encounter. Do the same with any other "-ity" or "-ism" that you encounter, but most importantly, realize that you have the right to truly have your own beliefs.

 

My first name is Bob, and I sometimes think, when people inevitably want to label me or know my beliefs, that I am really a "Bobbist monk". I really have my own thing going. And it works for me. I don't impose it on anyone because only "their" own thing would work for them.

 

Don't be afraid of this lack of imposed, discoverable structure. You are not on a quest for absolute, revealed, one-size-fits-all truth. You are on a quest for what is true FOR YOU.

 

Christianity is billed as "the faith once [and for all] delivered to the saints [of old, and it hasn't changed since]." This is a comforting template for people afraid to discover what life means TO THEM, who don't feel they have a right to their feelings, preferences, and inclinations. You are rebelling against this internally, and rightly so. But you are afraid of what might happen if there is any significant truth to "the faith". I'm here to tell you, that when you strike out on your own, the sky does not fall. You don't become depraved and unloving. Indeed, you do the "right thing" for the right reason (you want to) rather than the wrong one (fear of punishment). It puts you on a higher moral plane right away.

 

Besides, what have you got to lose? It's not like your belief system is working for you. It sounds like it's eating you out like acid from the inside. Flee the burning building and enjoy the cool air outside.

[DesertBob]

Emptiness..... I've always felt empty, even as a Christian. What will fill this void? What will patch up all the insecurities, failures, and hatred of self?

It's fairly clear that the emptiness is a pre-existing problem that is not helped (and is probably made worse) by Christianity. Christianity -- particularly the Evangelical / fundamentalist flavor -- actually pushes itself as an "answer" to feelings of emptiness, worthlessness, confusion, and purposelessness. As such, it attracts people with those issues. In many cases it provides a temporary or intermittent relief for those feelings, but only if the convert adheres to approved practices and beliefs.

 

My oldest brother was the first in my family to convert -- his conversion "turned his life around" in the sense that he quit running with his drinking buddies, stopped throwing up / passing out on the steps to our home, and generally stopped alarming my parents. It never occurred to anyone, apparently, that any sense of belonging and structure probably would have worked about as well at that point in his life. It ended up being attributed to divine intervention.

 

At any rate, in his case it was "successful" -- it met his needs and he adhered to his faith for the ensuing 45 plus years, until his death from bone cancer at age 67. That was the first thing that shook his faith at all. I'll never forget the way he looked like a whipped puppy, not sure what he had done wrong. Thankfully he went fast, and didn't have much time to suffer -- either from the cancer, or from the existential implications of it regarding the beliefs that had "informed" his entire adult life.

 

Others, like yourself, don't find yourself such a close "fit" with the faith and have an uneasy relationship with it. You need something more than just a "group hug", such as was satisfying to my brother.

 

I identify with that "empty" feeling. I've struggled with it all my life, just not as intensely. I find little in life compelling without certain prerequisites in place. In my case I need one or more persons that I completely respect, care about and love, that I can give to and receive at least a reasonable amount of appreciation in return. If that dynamic is in place, my life feels reasonably purposeful. Without it, I feel like I'm just passing pointless time. Even hobbies and interests seem pointless. Generalized giving to random people, as in volunteer work, doesn't really cut it for me.

 

Your mileage may vary, etc., but I'm just saying that you need to find whatever it is that inspires YOU. Believe me, it's there, someplace. It may take considerable trial and error and persistence to locate it. It may depend to some extent on Other People, and at times, Other People, as Satre said, are Hell. But it's worth being patient.

 

In the end it always seems like once you find what floats your boat, it's actually been there all along and the actual life changes necessary are amazingly minor. You will find that thought structures such as those provided by religion and past dysfunctional relationships keep you from these simple epiphanies. Just keep shedding your programming and trying new things and you WILL eventually come into your own.

 

Here's a small example from my own life. I am the product of a home with depression-era, blue-collar, one-foot-in-front-of-the-other parents. Entrepreneurial efforts, being in business for yourself, or any kind of professional work was done by Other People. People like me, punch clocks and hope for a nice gold watch someday. It never occurred to me that my life would consist of anything else until one of my brothers started his own successful business. It opened a whole new world of possibilities to me. It caused me to consider and try whole ranges of possibilities I would have completely missed, thinking they somehow didn't apply to me.

 

The upshot is that my professional life as an independent contractor developing software has been the one thing in my adult life that has consistently Just Worked. I love it, never grow tired of it, and it makes me embarrassing amounts of money -- and at its best, it does so while draining surprisingly little life-force from me. Frankly, as much of a clusterfuck as the rest of my life has been until fairly recently, if it hadn't been for my work, I'd have never made it.

 

All of this because of a slight change of perspective, being modestly open to a couple of new concepts.

 

Keep on trying -- the answer for you will be different but it's THERE. You're not a loser except at living an inauthentic life. We're all losers at that. You just need to figure out what is authentic for you. You can, and you will.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I think you have multiple things going on at the same time ... but I notice a theme that weaves its way through everything you've posted, and it's this: "I don't know what [i'm supposed] to believe".

 

That sounds about right.

 

Let me suggest an idea to you: there is no given truth, not even any given reality, that is "out there" for the finding. Realizing this might be quite liberating for you, because it removes the performance anxiety of "getting it right" and the fear of making "one false move".

 

But what if you're wrong? What if there is one Truth out there, with a capital T? Who knows? I think even if I came to a partial realization of this, I still don't think I could switch mindsets. The anxiety is still there. And to tell you the truth, I don't know why. I feel sad, depressed, angry, anxious, all the time, and I don't really know why. The performance anxiety that comes with trying to be a perfect Christian is gone, but I still can't snap out of it.

 

My experience has been that I find my own way. I make mistakes, and I adjust for them, and try again. Rinse and repeat. Don't judge yourself for making mistakes, and don't accept the judgment of others. And realize that you are much, much, more resilient than you probably give yourself credit for.

 

It's not necessarily that I beat myself up for making mistakes. What it really is, is that I hate the person that I've become. I hate everything about this person. And I want to commit mental suicide, slay the person inside that is me, and be reborn into something else... something much different.

 

Living life is like reading a book -- I've never read a book that I didn't end up just borrowing a coupe of key ideas from. A nugget here, a nugget there. There are things you like about Christianity, and things you hate. Borrow the things you like. Ignore the things you hate, while keeping an open mind that might be changed someday by new evidence and perspectives that you encounter. Do the same with any other "-ity" or "-ism" that you encounter, but most importantly, realize that you have the right to truly have your own beliefs.

 

To an extent that works, when it comes to moral things. But to another extent, it doesn't.

 

My first name is Bob, and I sometimes think, when people inevitably want to label me or know my beliefs, that I am really a "Bobbist monk". I really have my own thing going. And it works for me. I don't impose it on anyone because only "their" own thing would work for them.

 

If it works for you, cool.

 

Don't be afraid of this lack of imposed, discoverable structure. You are not on a quest for absolute, revealed, one-size-fits-all truth. You are on a quest for what is true FOR YOU.

 

What is true for me? It doesn't quite work that way. What is true is the truth for everybody, it doesn't vary from person to person. You can't say, Jesus is true to one person and Allah to another. It doesn't work like that. If Jesus is real, that means he's real, and that he's the way, the truth, and the life, and nobody comes to the father except through him. If Allah is real. that means Allah is real for everybody, whether they accept it or not, and not just for some people. Truth is truth, it doesn't matter who the person is.

 

Christianity is billed as "the faith once [and for all] delivered to the saints [of old, and it hasn't changed since]." This is a comforting template for people afraid to discover what life means TO THEM, who don't feel they have a right to their feelings, preferences, and inclinations. You are rebelling against this internally, and rightly so. But you are afraid of what might happen if there is any significant truth to "the faith". I'm here to tell you, that when you strike out on your own, the sky does not fall. You don't become depraved and unloving. Indeed, you do the "right thing" for the right reason (you want to) rather than the wrong one (fear of punishment). It puts you on a higher moral plane right away.

 

I've already left the faith. I'm not a Christian anymore. Biblically, I don't believe it's even possible for me to go back, for more than one reason. Whether it's true or not is irrelevent. There's no going back, most likely. So the problem is not that I'm holding myself back from taking that leap. I've already took it. It's more like, I'm held down by tons of baggage, and I don't know what to do with it.

 

Besides, what have you got to lose? It's not like your belief system is working for you. It sounds like it's eating you out like acid from the inside. Flee the burning building and enjoy the cool air outside.

 

Acid is exactly what it is. But how do I flee the burning building, when I thought I already did? What move do I have left to make? I'm just stuck, I can't go back, but I can't move forward either. It's not necessarily the hell thing holding me back. I've already accepted, I'm probably going to hell. I probably don't have much of a say in that anyway, as I'm probably damned and unforgivable where I sit. It's too late for me, biblically. So what's holding me back? I don't know.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

It's fairly clear that the emptiness is a pre-existing problem that is not helped (and is probably made worse) by Christianity. Christianity -- particularly the Evangelical / fundamentalist flavor -- actually pushes itself as an "answer" to feelings of emptiness, worthlessness, confusion, and purposelessness. As such, it attracts people with those issues. In many cases it provides a temporary or intermittent relief for those feelings, but only if the convert adheres to approved practices and beliefs.

 

I don't know what caused this emptiness, or when I got it, but I know it was, at the very least, made worse by Christianity, if not caused by it.

 

My oldest brother was the first in my family to convert -- his conversion "turned his life around" in the sense that he quit running with his drinking buddies, stopped throwing up / passing out on the steps to our home, and generally stopped alarming my parents. It never occurred to anyone, apparently, that any sense of belonging and structure probably would have worked about as well at that point in his life. It ended up being attributed to divine intervention.

 

Makes sense.

 

At any rate, in his case it was "successful" -- it met his needs and he adhered to his faith for the ensuing 45 plus years, until his death from bone cancer at age 67. That was the first thing that shook his faith at all. I'll never forget the way he looked like a whipped puppy, not sure what he had done wrong. Thankfully he went fast, and didn't have much time to suffer -- either from the cancer, or from the existential implications of it regarding the beliefs that had "informed" his entire adult life.

 

Sad. About his bone cancer, I mean.

 

Others, like yourself, don't find yourself such a close "fit" with the faith and have an uneasy relationship with it. You need something more than just a "group hug", such as was satisfying to my brother.

 

Exactly right.

 

I identify with that "empty" feeling. I've struggled with it all my life, just not as intensely. I find little in life compelling without certain prerequisites in place. In my case I need one or more persons that I completely respect, care about and love, that I can give to and receive at least a reasonable amount of appreciation in return. If that dynamic is in place, my life feels reasonably purposeful. Without it, I feel like I'm just passing pointless time. Even hobbies and interests seem pointless. Generalized giving to random people, as in volunteer work, doesn't really cut it for me.

 

Have you found any ways to take away from that feeling, other than what you mentioned above?

 

Your mileage may vary, etc., but I'm just saying that you need to find whatever it is that inspires YOU. Believe me, it's there, someplace. It may take considerable trial and error and persistence to locate it. It may depend to some extent on Other People, and at times, Other People, as Satre said, are Hell. But it's worth being patient.

 

I already know what inspires me. I don't even have to think about it. But, too bad I suck at it myself.

 

In the end it always seems like once you find what floats your boat, it's actually been there all along and the actual life changes necessary are amazingly minor. You will find that thought structures such as those provided by religion and past dysfunctional relationships keep you from these simple epiphanies. Just keep shedding your programming and trying new things and you WILL eventually come into your own.

 

I don't know if I will or not.

 

Here's a small example from my own life. I am the product of a home with depression-era, blue-collar, one-foot-in-front-of-the-other parents. Entrepreneurial efforts, being in business for yourself, or any kind of professional work was done by Other People. People like me, punch clocks and hope for a nice gold watch someday. It never occurred to me that my life would consist of anything else until one of my brothers started his own successful business. It opened a whole new world of possibilities to me. It caused me to consider and try whole ranges of possibilities I would have completely missed, thinking they somehow didn't apply to me.

 

The upshot is that my professional life as an independent contractor developing software has been the one thing in my adult life that has consistently Just Worked. I love it, never grow tired of it, and it makes me embarrassing amounts of money -- and at its best, it does so while draining surprisingly little life-force from me. Frankly, as much of a clusterfuck as the rest of my life has been until fairly recently, if it hadn't been for my work, I'd have never made it.

 

All of this because of a slight change of perspective, being modestly open to a couple of new concepts.

 

Cool.

 

Keep on trying -- the answer for you will be different but it's THERE. You're not a loser except at living an inauthentic life. We're all losers at that. You just need to figure out what is authentic for you. You can, and you will.

 

I'm a loser for other reasons.