Were You Ever A Christian?

[Ouroboros]

How about you? Did you sacrifice your life, belongings, time, and everything for church?

 

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

And so I did when I was Christian.

 

So, again, I was one. How about you?

 

It's obvious that you're not a real Christian.

[Ouroboros]

The bible doesn't say where babies go so how can I?

If you can't know that, then how can you know anything?

 

Since you already in your supernatural wisdom and thinking capabilities have proven to yourself that the Bible is God's word, then you must have the powers to figure out where babies go.

 

Or, are you saying that you don't have the supernatural powers to conclude eternal and absolute truths? Oh... that's a bummer.

 

---

 

Did you sell everything you own and gave it to the poor? If not, you're not a true Christian. If you're boasting and proudly proclaim that you're a "good" Christian to everyone (like here to us), then you're not a good Christian. You see, it's not the fruit of the Holy Spirit. The fruits of the Holy Spirit are meekness, kindness, etc. Self-adoration and boasting are not.

[PaulQ]

And "prove_17" ... I see just like the bable verses you are "cherry picking" to feed us here .... you are also "cherry picking" which posters you "attempt" to answer!

 

That's because prove_17 is wearing these:

 

[Ancey]

I still say I smell troll right now. (he strikes me as extremely different from the other Christians on this site, as he's really impersonal in all that he has posted, and that's already suspicious to me.)

 

I might be wrong. I'm just guessing. But it seems he's just quoting bible versus at us and not giving anything personal to the site, lacks imagination and personal touches (as his profile suggests to me).

 

Hey, prove_17, if you really aren't a troll, feel free to reply back to me and tell us all a little about yourself. Doesn't have to be anything revealing like a name or address, how about some hobbies, purpose here, the books you enjoy reading (we already know you like the Bible alot, so don't just tell us that, you have to read some fiction like most normal human beings) or magazines, what church you go/went/grew up in (again, just demoniation is fine. For example, I grew up a Lutheran).

 

Come'on. Let's get to know the person, not the bible-quoter.

[prove_17]

And "prove_17" ... I see just like the bable verses you are "cherry picking" to feed us here .... you are also "cherry picking" which posters you "attempt" to answer!

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

[prove_17]

I still say I smell troll right now. (he strikes me as extremely different from the other Christians on this site, as he's really impersonal in all that he has posted, and that's already suspicious to me.)

 

I might be wrong. I'm just guessing. But it seems he's just quoting bible versus at us and not giving anything personal to the site, lacks imagination and personal touches (as his profile suggests to me).

 

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

 

Hey, prove_17, if you really aren't a troll, feel free to reply back to me and tell us all a little about yourself. Doesn't have to be anything revealing like a name or address, how about some hobbies, purpose here, the books you enjoy reading (we already know you like the Bible alot, so don't just tell us that, you have to read some fiction like most normal human beings) or magazines, what church you go/went/grew up in (again, just demoniation is fine. For example, I grew up a Lutheran).

 

Come'on. Let's get to know the person, not the bible-quoter.

I can't tell you if I'm a troll on not considering I don't know what your definition of a troll is. It sounds hilarious nonetheless

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

.... arhhhh! but there was YOUR real problem Ouroboros! "Your" breed of christianity was NOT the correct one! I was taught the truth! Speaking in tongues was of the devil and an absolute no no with "true" christians!

Same with my sect, they thought it was the devil talking through you.

 

According to da babble, the earth is flat.

ummm.... The earth is flat:

 

According to the Bible, with the exception of not showing the mediterraenean, Ethiopia and Arabia, this is the world map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_Desert.png

 

Other than that, there is nothing else. The Bible is so right!

 

Yes the Bible does say that that is the world. Read the Table of Nations, it describes the birth of all the nations of the world. From Kaftor (crete/minoans) to Medes (madai). Though it leaves out Greece and Rome, those appear later.

 

The following do not exist:

Polynesians, Indians, Native americans, Chinese, Japanese, Siberians, etc...

 

 

Well, you don't have to be a believer to go to heaven. When I left being a Baptist fundie for other sects, I learned that even if you are a devout pagan, you can still go to heaven. As long as you are justified by your works.

[Ancey]

 

Hey, prove_17, if you really aren't a troll, feel free to reply back to me and tell us all a little about yourself. Doesn't have to be anything revealing like a name or address, how about some hobbies, purpose here, the books you enjoy reading (we already know you like the Bible alot, so don't just tell us that, you have to read some fiction like most normal human beings) or magazines, what church you go/went/grew up in (again, just demoniation is fine. For example, I grew up a Lutheran).

 

Come'on. Let's get to know the person, not the bible-quoter.

I can't tell you if I'm a troll on not considering I don't know what your definition of a troll is. It sounds hilarious nonetheless

 

And you avoid the point of the post completely. Either you're really clueless to what an internet troll is or you are an internet troll.

 

That is another characteristic of a troll, missing the point of a post. You've also used repetition, another characteristic.

 

I asked if you had any hobbies, read any interesting books (aside from the Bible, because we already know you read that), or do anything a normal human beings does. How about sports? You must like sports of some sort. Hockey? American Football? Soccer? How about movies? Do you like "the Godfather" or maybe you've seen Star Wars? Or is your only hobby bugging non-Christians and reading the Bible? Come'on! Show you're an actual person and not a troll!

 

[lunaticheathen]

I still say I smell troll right now. (he strikes me as extremely different from the other Christians on this site, as he's really impersonal in all that he has posted, and that's already suspicious to me.)

 

I might be wrong. I'm just guessing. But it seems he's just quoting bible versus at us and not giving anything personal to the site, lacks imagination and personal touches (as his profile suggests to me).

 

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

 

Hey, prove_17, if you really aren't a troll, feel free to reply back to me and tell us all a little about yourself. Doesn't have to be anything revealing like a name or address, how about some hobbies, purpose here, the books you enjoy reading (we already know you like the Bible alot, so don't just tell us that, you have to read some fiction like most normal human beings) or magazines, what church you go/went/grew up in (again, just demoniation is fine. For example, I grew up a Lutheran).

 

Come'on. Let's get to know the person, not the bible-quoter.

I can't tell you if I'm a troll on not considering I don't know what your definition of a troll is. It sounds hilarious nonetheless

 

Find him a bridge.

[Ancey]

 

Find him a bridge.

 

Haha.

Now I can't help myself here. You made me post this!! XD

 

 

I do still think prove_17 is still exhibiting troll-like behavior.

[Dagan]

This person isn't for real.

 

Whose twink is it?

[florduh]

Can the troll speak in anything other than Bible verses? Does it have an original thought of its own? Has it occurred to it that Ex-Christians don't accept the Bible as true or inspired and is therefore useless as authority in a debate? Does it realize that many here know the Bible as well or better than he? (Some even studied in the original languages. BTW, none of those languages were the tongue of King James.)

[hereticzero]

prove_17 has come to save us poor heathen. Read its profile, he is The Only True Christian™ in existence. I think it is wonderful that he wants to share his knowledge with us. We should promote the poster to the Lion's Den. he's a drive-by.

[Ancey]

For now, I am being rather entertained by the troll. I'll stop commenting on his stuff when I get bored/really annoyed. XD

[Overcame Faith]

Was this man baptised?

 

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

 

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

 

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

 

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:39-43.

 

 

He was not. Nevertheless, the bible doesn't leave us clueless on this subject: According to this passage, Jesus had the authority to forgive the "Thief of the cross" as he is known by, of his sins:

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

 

Do unbaptised babies who die go to hell? They must since only christians go to heaven and, according to you, baptism is essential for becoming a christian. And if you don't believe unbaptised babies go to hell, then it must be the case that baptism is not essential for everyone to become a christian and thus escape hell.

 

The bible doesn't say where babies go so how can I?

 

As for the thief on the cross, you have admitted that not everyone must be baptised to become a christian and thus get to heaven. So you're original post was wrong.

 

As for unbaptised babies who die, your answer is a major cop out. Come on, demonstrate the convictions of your beliefs. Here's your original post:

 

According to the bible, the only way to become a Christian is:

 

 

Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

So according to your bible thumping, a person must repent and be baptised otherwise they go to hell since they can't be christians. Unbaptised babies who die neither repented nor were baptised. They must, therefore, go to hell according to your twisted theology. If you can't live up to what you try to "teach" us here, then move along. Be consistent with the "word of god" as you try to foist it on us.

 

Now, I'll ease your mind a bit. Unbaptised babies do not go to hell since there is no hell for them to go to. Why don't you try to really find the truth and you won't be backed into the ugly corners of your "gospel" as we have done to you.

[prove_17]

As for the thief on the cross, you have admitted that not everyone must be baptised to become a christian and thus get to heaven. So you're original post was wrong.

 

To keep my post from being lengthy, I dealt with only the subject being discussed. Notice I said Christian as opposed to "being saved" This indicates New Testament, which started at the death of Jesus:

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 9:16 ¶For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

 

Notice the commandment to be baptized for salvation didn't come until after the resurrection of Jesus:

Mat 28:16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[Overcame Faith]

As for the thief on the cross, you have admitted that not everyone must be baptised to become a christian and thus get to heaven. So you're original post was wrong.

 

To keep my post from being lengthy, I dealt with only the subject being discussed. Notice I said Christian as opposed to "being saved" This indicates New Testament, which started at the death of Jesus:

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 9:16 ¶For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

 

Notice the commandment to be baptized for salvation didn't come until after the resurrection of Jesus:

Mat 28:16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

I suppose the United Methodists are wrong in their doctrine on baptism but you are correct in your interpretation of the Bible?

 

Q: Does baptism mean that I am saved?

 

A: No, salvation is a lifelong process during which we must continue to respond to God's grace. Baptism offers the promise that the Holy Spirit will always be working in our lives, but salvation requires our acceptance of that grace, trust in Christ, and ongoing growth in holiness as long as we live.

 

Q: Do I have to be baptized in order to be saved?

 

A: No, but baptism is a gift of God's grace to be received as part of the journey of salvation. To refuse to accept baptism is to reject one of the means of grace that God offers us.

 

http://www.gbod.org/site/apps/nlnet/content3.aspx?c=nhLRJ2PMKsG&b=5602801&ct=7189595

 

And if you are correct, why can't you just admit that your theology requires that unbaptised babies who die are destined to hell instead of ignoring that issue? At least the theology of the United Methodists don't require that unbaptised babies who die go to hell.

[prove_17]

I suppose the United Methodists are wrong in their doctrine on baptism but you are correct in your interpretation of the Bible?

 

 

The very concept of denominational-ism is a sin:

1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

1Cr 1:10 ¶Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

 

 

Q: Do I have to be baptized in order to be saved?

A: No, but baptism is a gift of God's grace to be received as part of the journey of salvation. To refuse to accept baptism is to reject one of the means of grace that God offers us.

 

What does Peter say:

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

The solution to this dilemma is quite simple. The book of Acts is the only book in the bible where there are examples of people becoming Christians. All you have do is find one convert that wasn't baptized and my post will be wrong. If you can't find at least one, then yes the United Methodist doctrine on baptism is also flawed.

[Ancey]

Okay, I'm done feeding the internet troll. Phew. It was fun while it lasted.

[Ouroboros]

Okay, I'm done feeding the internet troll. Phew. It was fun while it lasted.

He/she is not a True Christian after all, so no harm done.

[Overcame Faith]

I find it amazing that you think that you alone know the truth of christianity and that you are so intelligent that you can see and understand what the biblical scholars and theologians of the United Methodist Church with all their education and study of the bible can't see. Why don't you share your credentials with us so we can understand the scholarly basis which makes you so wise in interpreting the scriptures and leaves everyone else so lacking. It's very unfortunate that the United Methodist Church doesn't have your understanding because they are teaching that baptism isn't necessary for someone to get to heaven. They are thus condemning some people to hell who believe they don't have to be baptised. You need to get your gospel interpretation out there to save those poor souls who are being misled.

 

You also need to figure out how little babies are going to repent of their sins and get baptised so if they die before they do these things they don't go to hell. And yes little babies under christian theology are guilty of sin. Remember original sin? But that's right, you are ignoring this little dilemma and would rather focus on your self-imposed "delimma" of whether adults need to be baptised.

 

 

The solution to this dilemma is quite simple. The book of Acts is the only book in the bible where there are examples of people becoming Christians. All you have do is find one convert that wasn't baptized and my post will be wrong. If you can't find at least one, then yes the United Methodist doctrine on baptism is also flawed.

 

Since you place so much importance on the Book of Acts, let's take a look at what your Jesus said in that book before he floated up into heaven after his resurrection. Or more precisely, what he didn't say.

 

7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

 

9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

 

10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11.

 

He said not one word there about baptism. You conveniently chose Matthew for your quote a few posts ago, but now you say I must go to Acts. I did and found Jesus saying nothing about baptism.

 

But Jesus obviously did baptise some according to John.

 

22After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. John 3:22.

 

So Jesus baptised some, yet did not see the thief's lack of baptism to be a stumbling block and thus assured him he would be in heaven. This is consistent with the United Methodists' position on baptism and inconsistent with your stance. You choose to focus on Acts, but to ignore the gospels unless they are convenient for you. We call that cherry picking. Look at your hands. I'll bet they're red from the cherry juice.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Sounds like a Church of Christ Christian. I grew up in the CoC.

 

Is it appropriate to use musical instruments in worship?

[Guest Valk0010]

I was never baptized but I truely believed that jesus was divine and the son of god and of the trinty etc.

[Realist]

prove_17 has come to save us poor heathen. Read its profile, he is The Only True Christian™ in existence. I think it is wonderful that he wants to share his knowledge with us. We should promote the poster to the Lion's Den. he's a drive-by.

 

.... better still HereticZero I think his complete profile statement needs to be posted here in full!

 

Prove_17

More About Me: I'm the only true Christian I know of and believe many have been discouraged from The Faith by men. I'm not saying I'm the only true Christian, but that I'm the only one I know of.

 

What are you then Prove_17? By your OWN statement you HAVE to be one of the following! A person here just being a troll; a school kid; someone who has lived some EXTREMELY naive and sheltered existence and knows nothing at all of life; or you are just plain f.cking thick? Your call here ... tell us?

[PaulQ]

And "prove_17" ... I see just like the bable verses you are "cherry picking" to feed us here .... you are also "cherry picking" which posters you "attempt" to answer!

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

It's a good thing I didn't ask any questions, I only stated truthful facts.

 

Keep those blinders on; it's always fun having a mindless bleating sheep around the forums.