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Goodbye Jesus

Converting BACK to Xiantity Possible?


seeker

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

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No. I will continue to honor the gods/goddesses of my ancestors...I neither love nor hate the God of Abraham; he is simply there, as the gods of any other religion that I don't follow are there. Existence does not obligate me to love or worship a being who isn't part of my religion--period.

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

 

If someone could prove Jesus did exist, DID perform miracles, WAS a son of god (ie. the impossible...) then, I'd become a Satanist. Fuck that God prick.

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

 

I don't believe any of it. At best, Jesus was a well-intentioned Jewish reformer who was murdered for his beliefs. Not a bad guy at all, and admirable for his commitment to his beliefs, but not divine.

 

As for Yahweh: he's a PRICK. I don't care if he's real or not--after my experience of Christianity I'd never reverence someone so bloodthirsty, arbitrary, bigoted and cruel.

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If Jesus was real, and was proven to have existed, and also proven that he was Gods son. Then I would conclude that the whole Bible got the stories completely wrong, and had to find the truth about Jesus through other sources. NT doesn't jive with reality, and many of the quotes of Jesus doesn't fit experience either, so the Bible is still wrong. I would accept Jesus as a representative of a new God, separate from Christianity, and maybe even give him a new name, not to confuse him with Christianity.

 

According to Jesus own words, the Church will prove that Jesus was for real by its love to each other. This it has failed to do with all the fights between the denominations. The Church has because of it's internal struggle proven that they're not true followers of Jesus. So either, there's not true christians, or Jesus were not true son of God.

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There are some who do, but I think it's mostly chritian kids who deconvert for reasons as :'I don't like church'

I know of two online christians who came back after deconverting. Both online though.

 

O and I do believe Jesus existed.

There are loads of hisorical ancient figures who are very scarsely documented and/or surrounded by myths.

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And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

No, I would not consider returning to Christianity for the main reason that if Jesus is the son of God, then his father is immoral. The issue is greater than just mere flaws and discrepancies in the text that would need to be rectified. We'd have an insane "madman" for God.

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I would never go back either. The god of the bible is not the one that I grew up worshiping....that musta been someone else. After I realized what the biblegod was REALLY like, I ran far.

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Tried going back once and it didn't work out. Until someone can offer me definite proof that Jesus existed, and that he was god as the Bible claims, I'm not converting back.

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I was gonna call you an asshole for converting back to xtianity, seeker....but then I read the thread.....so nevermind.

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When you think about it.....there really isn't any "christianity".

 

There IS Paul-ianity. But if you compare his instructions for the church to the example led by the figurehead he based the religion on (Jesus), the life example really doesn't match the stuff Paul came up with.

 

So it really doesn't matter if Jesus were real or not, the message (real or not) was warped and distorted completely by asshole Paul. Since I have no way NOW of knowing the real purpose or intent of such a being (unless he decides to speak up and tell me personally), I'm not about to follow the warped and distorted "instructions" simply because that is the religion available.

 

Religion fails the individual by making the person insecure, miserable, paranoid, depressed, and devalued. Therefore I cannot condone it.

 

If I were to decide there was sufficient evidence for Jesus being the son of god, I'd live by the example depicted in the book. But first I'd research and make sure what I was following was not tainted by too many authors, OR that jerk Paul.

 

So......how much of the Jesus story would that leave?

 

:shrug:

 

I don't think......any of it is left.

 

The son'o'god better speak up then.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aaaaannnnnd it's quiet. Must not be that important.

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I'm kind of with HanSolo on this one.

 

If somebody managed to demonstrate to me that Jesus was in fact god, in some unimaginable, totally undeniable way, well - I'd probably be compelled to believe it, just knowing how I am with stuff like that. I like to work with reality, and if reality was that Jesus was god, well - I don't know what else I could do.

 

But I sure as hell wouldn't take the Bible as being accurate at all. I don't now, and I wouldn't then. That book has been chopped up like nobody's business, no matter how loudly any Xian shouts that it hasn't, that it's inerrant, that it's perfect and complete. Yeah, right - bullshit. Because of this, I know I'm sure as hell not going to find any realities about Jesus in the Bible - and I wouldn't find them, if it were otherwise proven to me that Jesus is god. I'd look elsewhere.

 

Fwiw. Thanks for reading. :)

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That's kind of an murky question - do you mean simply proof that Jesus once actually lived, or undeniable proof that everything he said and did was also true (ie, water to wine, driving demons into pigs, ascended into heaven after the resurrection, etc.)

 

As to whether he actually existed being proved true - no, that wouldn't do it. So what if he was really real? I still dislike his religion and the book that's propped it up for so long. Buddha was much more ethical, IMO.

 

If he was really the son of god, and performed all the miracles and everything? If it were true, our world would be so fucked up we'd have to reconvert! All kinds of crazy magical stuff would be going on - people coming back from the dead, miracle healings, angels and demons flitting about causing chaos, oceans turning to blood, etc.

 

Fortunately for all concerned, that's a choice we never have to worry about! :phew:

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If someone could prove Jesus did exist, DID perform miracles, WAS a son of god (ie. the impossible...) then, I'd become a Satanist.  Fuck that God prick.

 

:lmao:

 

I'm with you there. I'd hate to side back with a god that designed a system that will let over 90% of humanity fall through the cracks into eternal torture. That, among other things makes him an immoral son of a bitch and one that I want nothing to do with.

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian?

 

To me, the two most sick parts of christianity are:

 

A god who has planed for his own son to die on a cross.

A god who send non believers to hell.

 

If I should believe in a god, it would be far more easy for me if that god did not have a son who came to rescue us.

 

Actually, when I first found out, that Jesus of the gospels wasn't more real than Donald Duck, I thought that praying to him would be praying to a false god. So out fo respect for the real god (that I still did belive in for a while), I left Jesus out of my faith.

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

 

No, Truth matters more to me then Faith. I think some others wish to have Faith because the truth is to cold, and if they lose their perceived reality they will no longer have someone 'saving them', some people just wouldn't be able to cope with that reality.

 

That being said, I think it's taken me a long ass time to get to this point, and I hope theirs something out their, but I don't know or Count on it.

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No, I would NOT return to Christianity™ based on "Jesus" being "proven" a real boy. (ala Pinnochio) "Real" does not mean "God in human form". Only that there was a "person" to hang the legend upon.

 

For me to believe at this point would take a "Doubting Thomas"/Paul on the road to Damscus experience.

 

"Jesus" would have to walk through my locked door, show himself to me and tell me in person The Truth™. He'd have to burn every holy babble and deny quite forcefully EVERYTHING written therein. He'd have to explain to me that everybody got his words wrong and were following God incorrectly. He'd have to explain WHY he has done nothing to prevent his "followers" from doing evil in His name. He'd have to sufficiently explain why God allows evil and sickness to pervade humanity, while God does nothing to prevent it.

 

This "Jesus" would have MUCH to answer for before I'd believe in "him".

 

And unlike "Job" I wouldn't cower before any bluster and thunderings. I'd be like Dorothy standing up to the "Wizard"! "Hey, fuckhead! You're just mean!"

 

So, no. No "true Jesus" sightings would ever convince me of anything.

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I'm wondering how many here have left the Christian faith for whatever reason, but still believe Jesus MIGHT have been the son of God/God itself/whatever..And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian?

 

No, and no. Hail Thor! :pureevil:

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I don't believe any of it. At best, Jesus was a well-intentioned Jewish reformer who was murdered for his beliefs. Not a bad guy at all, and admirable for his commitment to his beliefs, but not divine.

 

As for Yahweh: he's a PRICK. I don't care if he's real or not--after my experience of Christianity I'd never reverence someone so bloodthirsty, arbitrary, bigoted and cruel.

Becca, I am with you there. Except Jesus was for slavery - so you know... umm? :scratch:

 

Why didn't Jesus just start a labor movement?

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I am sorry that I can't reference the book, but I read that one theory going around was that there were hundreds of organizations that came before Jesus to overthrow the current government. Jesus saunters into town on his two donkeys promising to overthrow the leaders and is punished by crucifixion.

It was not a big deal because, according to the author, this sort of thing happened pretty consistently.

 

Anyway, forget about Jesus. If God did exist, and the current Christian rules applied, I would voluntarily burn in hell for the rest of eternity with a smile on my face.

 

I am greatful that everything ends in death, otherwise I would have a pretty crispy hell-burnt body.

 

 

:fdevil:

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No, and no. Gilgamesh probably existed, too, but that doesn't mean that I believe he was some demigod. It's a big step to go from proving existence to proving godhood.

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When you think about it.....there really isn't any "christianity".

 

There IS Paul-ianity. But if you compare his instructions for the church to the example led by the figurehead he based the religion on (Jesus), the life example really doesn't match the stuff Paul came up with.

 

So it really doesn't matter if Jesus were real or not, the message (real or not) was warped and distorted completely by asshole Paul. Since I have no way NOW of knowing the real purpose or intent of such a being (unless he decides to speak up and tell me personally), I'm not about to follow the warped and distorted "instructions" simply because that is the religion available.

 

 

 

 

This is a thought I had just before I left for the last time. I was banned from one board for expressing those same thoughts, that most "follow Paul" as opposed to "following Jesus."

Let me clarify that. I was banned from one board for expressing those thoughts on another board.

 

But, there is a group who state emphatically that "we follow Paul, he is our spokesman for this church age."

 

Its how they nullify Jesus' purported words "These signs shall follow..." because those words were written to the Jew and Paul speaks for the Gentile..uhm..ok..

Its truly the only way to make it all "fit".

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To me, the two most sick parts of christianity are:

 

A god who has planed for his own son to die on a cross.

A god who send non believers to hell.

I'm with you there, Thomas. A god who demands human sacrifice to appease himself is absolutely repulsive to me. A god who would send anyone to an eternal fiery hell does not deserve to be worshipped by anyone.

 

But, there is a group who state emphatically that "we follow Paul, he is our spokesman for this church age."

Lizard, I've heard that before but I can't remember what group that is. Care to enlighten me? I'm just curious.

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And if somehow someone proves that Jesus did exist would you then reconsider going back to being a Christian? Even knowing ALL of the contradictions in the text and the obvious flaws? Do you think you could overlook them if someone proved Jesus was here?

 

I can say with 100% certainty that, "No. I could not go back." When I reached the point of full and complete deconversion, meaning I knew I did not believe in God and could not consider myself a Christian, I still believed in a very literal Jesus. I believed he existed as a real person, actually did most of what the bible said he did, and even died on the cross for believing he was God. It was only later, after more serious research into the actual facts supporting what I believed, that I let those ideas go.

 

I found the belief in a literal Jesus and semi-accurate biblical record of his life, to be completely separate from believing and being a Christian. Of course, at this point I do not believe in a literal Jesus but I did and I did it as an unbeliever just as easily as I had done as a believer.

 

:shrug:

 

So... it makes it very easy to answer the question with a firm certainty. His existence or non-existence is not a [signifigant] factor in my belief or non-belief.

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I'm with you there, Thomas. A god who demands human sacrifice to appease himself is absolutely repulsive to me. A god who would send anyone to an eternal fiery hell does not deserve to be worshipped by anyone.

Lizard, I've heard that before but I can't remember what group that is. Care to enlighten me? I'm just curious.

Its usually an Independant Fundamental Baptist who spouts this stuff. The statement goes something like "Following Paul, following Christ".

 

Its the same group who divides the bible into "dispensations"..stating that this part is for the Jew, that part is for the Apostles and this latter part is for us today. Its all neatly divided and makes the argument that gifts and signs were only for the Apostles..which explains why we don't see them functioning today. In my view, it takes great acrobatics to come to those conclusions and totally negates what Jesus said..making it a whole different "gospel", if you know what I mean.

 

Hmm..brings me to another thought. Paul was an interloper, in my view. He took over (this is on the assumption that these "acts" actually took place :lmao: )..he told the followers to reject anyone who brought a gospel different from the one HE brought..which makes me wonder why the original 11 would allow this? Could it be because Paul was a Pharisee..and could still have made "trouble" for them? :scratch:

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