Poonis Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Regarding the necessity of a new heaven: Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 1. Necessity - What necessitates a new heaven? 2. "Destroy the village to save it" - I can 'understand' (from my christian days) the christian-logic of the necessity of doing away with the current earth, but why is it necessary to do away with the old heaven and replace it with a new heaven? Has the old heaven fallen from grace as the old earth which we now live in? 3. Corruption - Is the old heaven corrupted from events leading up to, or including the tribulation? If so, heaven is corruptable by evil. 4. Pefection redefined - Being the new heaven will not be the old heaven, what has changed? If the new heaven is deemed perfect, how is this in relation to the old heaven? If the new heaven is deemed perfect, and the characteristics differ from the old, then the old heaven (which is the current one), can only be imperfect. 5. Stadium seating - If the new heaven simply has more room than the old one, that is to say that god misjudged how many people will be going to heaven. 6. Difference - Mathematically, we can see what is found in the new heaven that is not in the old: NEW_HEAVEN - OLD_HEAVEN = DIFFERENCE. This very difference is what concerns me. What is the difference between the two heavens, old and new, that necessitates a new heaven over the old one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 5. Stadium seating - If the new heaven simply has more room than the old one, that is to say that god misjudged how many people will be going to heaven. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> God wasn't counting on Pug making such an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Redecorating? After all, wasn't there a "war" in heaven, with the devil and his angels rebelling? And didn't Jeebus say he was going to prepare a place for all? In his dad's crib there be many mansions and such. Sounds like a heavenly "Extreme Home Makeover" caper to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 5. Stadium seating - If the new heaven simply has more room than the old one, that is to say that god misjudged how many people will be going to heaven. Nah. Only a few thousand people are the actual True Christians and be saved (vs. 10 Billion people that won't), so the old one would do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Redecorating? After all, wasn't there a "war" in heaven, with the devil and his angels rebelling? And didn't Jeebus say he was going to prepare a place for all? In his dad's crib there be many mansions and such. Jesus was supposed to do that while he was dead for 3 days. So he didn't? He slacked? Jesus! YOU ARE FIRED! --- now I know how Donald Trump feels like Mansions! Phff! More like a couple of grass huts. There will be so much empty space in heaven that God will sit for eternity and think: "Man, it's loonely here. Only a few hundred guys, singing stupid songs all the time. It sounds like they have way much more fun down in Hell. They really got a party going! Maybe I should go there to join them? Nah, I'll do it tomorrow." 1 Day=1000 years, i.e. 1000 years later... "The party is still going on down there. Maybe I should go? Damn, I can't, it would look odd. 'Look, God is coming to join our party!'. I'll wait. I'll do it tomorrow." 1000 years... "I should have come up with some smarter salvation project. It didn't work too well. All the fun guys went to hell, and I'm stuck here with Falwell and Robertson. They just keep on talking. Can't they shut up? I've just have had enough, I'll go to hell, there was some special going on tonight. Two for price of one. I should go. But patience is a virtue. It stinks to be God." and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 "I should have come up with some smarter salvation project. It didn't work too well. All the fun guys went to hell, and I'm stuck here with Falwell and Robertson.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Poor god - can you imagine being stuck for eternity with a couple of stiffs like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Poor god - can you imagine being stuck for eternity with a couple of stiffs like that? And they wonder why I'm pleased to be told I'm going to Hell. At least I'll enjoy myself in their mythical torture chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead_hobbit Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I'd have to read the passage in context, but it might be worth noting that the hebrew word for heaven can also refer to the sky, and a new heavean and a new earth could be referring to a transformation of the land and skies, rather than the other definition of "heaven". I'd have to check into the underlying greek (and how it is in the peshitta) to be sure, but i'm too lazy to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 I'd have to read the passage in context, but it might be worth noting that the hebrew word for heaven can also refer to the sky, and a new heavean and a new earth could be referring to a transformation of the land and skies, rather than the other definition of "heaven". I'd have to check into the underlying greek (and how it is in the peshitta) to be sure, but i'm too lazy to do that. Then of course, this argument could be turned around, that "Heaven" in all the other verses wouldn't reference to any other place outer-world-place but to the sky. And all saints are going to the sky. ... The image of an angel-person playing 3-string-harp and sitting on a cloud comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead_hobbit Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Then of course, this argument could be turned around, that "Heaven" in all the other verses wouldn't reference to any other place outer-world-place but to the sky. And all saints are going to the sky.... The image of an angel-person playing 3-string-harp and sitting on a cloud comes to mind. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *shrugs* I'm really not that familiar with the NT, so I wouldn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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