Im A Christian Again

[Guest Justyna]

I heard a joke that a comedian said once. I dont even remember his name, but he said this: When people are on an airplane and it goes down..it does not matter who the people are..they automatically start praying to Jesus to save them. They do not pray to Allah and Buddha and all these other gods, they start praying to Jesus for help....lol

 

Aint that the truth!

 

You may say you do not believe right now cause things are going well in your life..but I am willing to bet that when some of you are much older and therfore closer to death, you will reach out to Him. And remember He will forgive you and accept you..thats how awesome He is. Hopefully this will happen sooner than later, but who knows. Also I hope it is not too late because tomorrow is not promised. Any one of us can be in some freak accident and die suddenly (God forbid).

[Caretaker]

I heard a joke that a comedian said once. I dont even remember his name, but he said this: When people are on an airplane and it goes down..it does not matter who the people are..they automatically start praying to Jesus to save them. They do not pray to Allah and Buddha and all these other gods, they start praying to Jesus for help....lol

 

Aint that the truth!

 

I'm not laughing.

 

You may say you do not believe right now cause things are going well in your life..but I am willing to bet that when some of you are much older and therfore closer to death, you will reach out to Him. And remember He will forgive you and accept you..thats how awesome He is. Hopefully this will happen sooner than later, but who knows. Also I hope it is not too late because tomorrow is not promised. Any one of us can be in some freak accident and die suddenly (God forbid).

 

Don't hold your breath. You will suffocate.

[Michael]

Its easy to belief a lie.

It is. But it is difficult to believe a lie when you know that it is a lie.

 

Not that God wants us to lose our faith in Him, but He can use those bad things and turn them for good like He is doing in my case.

Xianity does not make any sense. You expect people to give their entire life just because you feel good about xianity. The e-n-t-i-r-e life!!!! But as I have written: It is not possible for you to understand. And I am convinced that if I would open my heart and tell you my story that you would use it against me and tell me that I am a quitter and looser and that you would treat my emotions in a bad way. Because there is nothing that can make you understand our ways. NOTHING.

 

You are not listening to people and you are not willing to accept their experience. Your starting point is: I am right-they are wrong. Your thread is not a discussion on eye level it is your monologue.

[Vigile]

I guess I just dont understand people's experiences with the church

 

Why do xians always assume we deconverted because of problems with the church? I was in church for over 20 years and never had any real problems. I liked the people there. I, and almost everyone here, deconverted because xian claims are just clearly untrue, the bible isn't inspired, and god, at the very least the xian god, clearly doesn't exist. He's make believe and claims made by the xian religion are not grounded in fact.

[Vigile]

They do not pray to Allah and Buddha and all these other gods, they start praying to Jesus for help....lol

 

I have advanced kidney disease and death is a very real concept to me. I don't pray to Jesus nor do I feel any compulsion to. The idea is as silly to me as asking Santa for presents for xmas.

 

The claim that most people pray in these situations is probably true, the claim that most pray to god or jesus is probably statistically true when they come from xian nations like the US because it's what they know. The claim is clearly false when addressing those in other nations that are not xian.

[Caretaker]

I have used my Psychology degree...a lot actually.

 

---snip---

 

I guess I just dont understand people's experiences with the church.

 

What university did you get your degree? I want to know so that I know what school not to attend.

[Michael]

Justyna,

 

you have no empathy and no acceptance. But you are definitly congruent. As long as you are missing the first two, your counseling will not be on a high level.

[OnceConvinced]

Did anyone ever think that perhaps that was a lie in and of it self? Its easy to belief a lie. YOu start doubting the Bible, stop reading it. Start doubting the fact that God exists and before you know it, you dont believe anymore. YOu forgot who He is.

 

I fought tooth and tail against disbelief. At first I thought it was the devil attacking me, but then I got real on that one. The evidence was just too stacked against the bible and Jesus. In the end there was only one conclusion I could possibly make and that's that I didn't believe it anymore. If it was Satan, then that makes Satan more powerful than the holy spirit.

[OnceConvinced]

I heard a joke that a comedian said once. I dont even remember his name, but he said this: When people are on an airplane and it goes down..it does not matter who the people are..they automatically start praying to Jesus to save them. They do not pray to Allah and Buddha and all these other gods, they start praying to Jesus for help....lol

 

Aint that the truth!

 

There is no evidence to support that would be the case. It's wishful thinking on behalf of Christians. I find it hard to believe that Muslims would be crying out for Jesus. It will be Allah they're crying out to.

 

I was just telling Thumbelina (who said a similar thing to this) that I was in a life or death situation about three years ago where I was caught in a rip in a surf beach and my legs cramped up on me. I was being smashed about by waves and being dragged out, taking in a lot of salt water. I thought I was a goner. I never did call out to Jesus.

[OnceConvinced]

I guess I just dont understand people's experiences with the church

 

Why do xians always assume we deconverted because of problems with the church? I was in church for over 20 years and never had any real problems. I liked the people there. I, and almost everyone here, deconverted because xian claims are just clearly untrue, the bible isn't inspired, and god, at the very least the xian god, clearly doesn't exist. He's make believe and claims made by the xian religion are not grounded in fact.

 

I for one had nothing but positive experiences in the church. I had lots of good times, lots of friends, was given lots of respect and responsibility. Hell they even gave me starring roles in big budget stage shows. Why would I want to give up all that? I lost a lot when I lost my faith. But as much as I might like to go back to church and play at being a Christian (which would be easy, because there is no holy spirit disernment when it comes to identifying fakes), I cannot live a lie. I'm sure Satan if he existed would love me to pretend, wouldn't he? But no, my strong morals and principles are still in tact, which proves to me there is no Satan.

[Guest Justyna]

Love is stronger than logic.

 

Actually love is not logical. Love is when you are loved when you do not deserve it. Love is when God reaches down and pulls you out of a pit that you would have never been able to escape. Love is patient, and kind even when we are not. Love does not make sense.

[Guest Valk0010]

I am going to come off as a bitter prick but I don't care. And this is something I realized after I no longer considered myself a believer.

 

I was "saved" in 1999 at the age of nine(the various ethical problems I have with that are another matter, but anyhow). I don't remeber alot about religion from before then, either.

 

I remeber it starting in august of 2000. I started getting this terror of a fear of committing the unforgivable sin(I though it was something different then it was, but that is irrelevant really) and I thought I may have, and I might do it again (this time for real).

 

This started a almost 8 year issue with what is called OCD.

 

About 15 I learned what the actually unforgivable sin was, and the problem was translated to it.

 

This is while I managed to get my issue under control for almost a year between 10 and 15, on my own.

 

Well what happened at 15 caused for me, worse OCD then I ever had before, to the point that my grandmother wanted to take me to the hospital on one occasion. My health was noticeably worse. (I remember one teacher asking me if I was doing alright because I had noticeably lost weight).

 

Well fast forward through some hell and ineffective and slow counseling at the age about 17. After being put on medicine for it. I was finally able to get under control, and I successfully did what would be called cognitive behavioral therapy, by forcing myself not to be so worried and all.

 

About 10-11 was really bad, 12-14 wasn't so bad,15-17 was about the worse time in my life.

 

Where was god in this picture? Was I somehow not good enough, not sinless enough or, somehow not worthy. Those many dark evenings with tear in my eyes trying to stop myself, depressed because I couldn't enjoy life.

 

If you truely believe that god is in control, then why that relatively brief time between 12-14 where I had at least some relief, why not just take it away entirely and not allow me to relapse like I did at 15.

 

You know what got me to stop, realizing that.

 

If I hadn't said it, it wouldn't matter since I was already saved, and if I was wrong and somehow did there was nothing I could do.

 

There was no god involved.

 

OCD scared my childhood, it was the perfect time for a miracle(which was something that didn't violate free will or any bullshit like that).

 

So justya. Is god not there,not willing or does he not care?

[Dibllsmek]

The thing is, We don't doubt. Unlike you, we know. There are no ifs about it. You didn't deconvert, you simply started doubting, thats the first step. I do wish you did deconvert, you would be such a more likable person.

[Guest Justyna]

In the past..I have been on such a spiritual high....it was as though I was flying...like I could do anything with HIm.

 

Ive also been in the pitt..and guess what? In the pitt He never left me. He was there too!

 

Was the ride worth it? Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes! I would do it again in a heartbeat..all of it. The ups the downs and everything in between. Finding God was the single best thing in my life...ever. I place such little importance on everything else because everything falls short to finding your Father..the One that made you, knows you soo well and loves you perfectly. Theres nothing like it.

 

Obama could say tomorrow that all religion is banned, and that God is non-existent. It would not change my mind. I KNOW what I experienced...I know what I heard, I know who He is, and nothing and no one will change that.

[Guest Valk0010]

Love is stronger than logic.

 

Actually love is not logical. Love is when you are loved when you do not deserve it. Love is when God reaches down and pulls you out of a pit that you would have never been able to escape. Love is patient, and kind even when we are not. Love does not make sense.

 

Outside of the scratched out sentence I agree with you. So you point is?

[Guest Valk0010]

In the past..I have been on such a spiritual high....it was as though I was flying...like I could do anything with HIm.

 

Ive also been in the pitt..and guess what? In the pitt He never left me. He was there too!

 

Was the ride worth it? Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes! I would do it again in a heartbeat..all of it. The ups the downs and everything in between. Finding God was the single best thing in my life...ever. I place such little importance on everything else because everything falls short to finding your Father..the One that made you, knows you soo well and loves you perfectly. Theres nothing like it.

 

Obama could say tomorrow that all religion is banned, and that God is non-existent. It would not change my mind. I KNOW what I experienced...I know what I heard, I know who He is, and nothing and no one will change that.

Replace obama with whatever leader you want. And a muslim would say the exact same thing, some foresight and think through would be nice.

[Vigile]

It would not change my mind. I KNOW what I experienced...I know what I heard, I know who He is, and nothing and no one will change that.

 

Yeah, we know that about you. This is not a positive thing.

 

I felt that high you discuss as well. Your psych degree should have taught you what causes it. It's purely all in your own mind.

[Guest Justyna]

Psych degrees are made by man...concepts that are from theories taken from men.

 

God is real. Living. Breathing. The Great I AM. Ever-present. All-Knowing.

 

Its different. Trust me.

 

I choose to believe God than the text book.

[Vigile]

Justyna,

 

Next time you go to church, pay attention to the formula. They start off the service with fun songs, then before the preacher comes on to preach they ease you in with slower, more worshipful songs that put you in a state where you feel peaceful, grateful and spiritual. The pastor will then start off slow and soft, building up to a crescendo and then he'll bring it back down again and your worship leader will send you out with another slow, deep spiritual song.

 

Just pay attention and see if I'm right.

[Guest Valk0010]

Psych degrees are made by man...concepts that are from theories taken from men.

 

God is real. Living. Breathing. The Great I AM. Ever-present. All-Knowing.

 

Its different. Trust me.

 

I choose to believe God than the text book.

Did god's own hand write your textbook(the bible) or did men. God wouldn't have taken over said men, since in your eyes it would violate free will. So a man can make a mistake right. What a real good mean to write your holy book.

[Dibllsmek]

Justyna seems like more than your average Christian, She's Batshit crazy. Talking voices, ignoring scientific facts like its witchcraft, and only listening to herself.

 

She doesn't even retain one bit of information we present, she just makes up some excuse about how "humans are wrong and God is right." I think shes a lost cause, we should just leave her alone an enjoy her "happy" life.

[Guest Valk0010]

Justyna seems like more than your average Christian, She's Batshit crazy. Talking voices, ignoring scientific facts like its witchcraft, and only listening to herself.

 

She doesn't even retain one bit of information we present, she just makes up some excuse about how "humans are wrong and God is right." I think shes a lost cause, we should just leave her alone an enjoy her "happy" life.

A Punching bag is still a fun.

[Vixentrox]

In the past..I have been on such a spiritual high....it was as though I was flying...like I could do anything with HIm.

 

Ive also been in the pitt..and guess what? In the pitt He never left me. He was there too!

 

Was the ride worth it? Ohhhhhhhhhhh yes! I would do it again in a heartbeat..all of it. The ups the downs and everything in between. Finding God was the single best thing in my life...ever. I place such little importance on everything else because everything falls short to finding your Father..the One that made you, knows you soo well and loves you perfectly. Theres nothing like it.

 

Obama could say tomorrow that all religion is banned, and that God is non-existent. It would not change my mind. I KNOW what I experienced...I know what I heard, I know who He is, and nothing and no one will change that.

You could do anything with him? Did that mean you cured some amputees?

[bornagainathiest]

Justyna knows God exists in the same way a schizophrenic knows his cat is plotting to steal his car.

 

Hi Justyna!

 

Following on from Caretaker's irreverent post, please look at these questions - but don't bother answering them. They are rhetorical and simply there to make a point.

 

1. Am I hungry now?

2. How do I feel (emotionally, that is) about my Uncle Jim?

3. Is the bruise on my left knee still hurting?

 

Now, if you do have a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology, you'll know straight away that you cannot possibly answer these questions. Why? Well, the questions have to do with my subjective experience of physical sensation and my subjective experience of my emotional state. Nobody else is privy to these emotional and physical 'feelings'. Nobody ever can be. Unless I show some outward signs of hunger, pain or emotion, nobody will ever know what I am currently 'feeling' about these things.

So, if you do have this Degree, you'd know all about the difference between Subjective and Objective experiences, right?

 

You'd also know that it's impossible for one person to directly share in the emotional, mental or physical sensations of another individual. All that can be done is to look for the outward signs of these things or for the person in question to communicate what they are 'feeling' thru speaking, writing or gestures. You'd also know this, hmmm...?

 

You'd also know that that this kind of personal testimony is fraught with problems. Problems not just of communication, but also problems of perception, self-analysis and self-delusion. If the person's self-analysis is faulty or biased, what they communicate

will be equally faulty or biased. In the same way, if they are indulging in some kind of self-delusion, anything they report about what they 'feel' is highly suspect and should be taken as unreliable. Likewise, perception. As someone tutored in Psychology, you'll readily understand that what we perceive does not necessarily square up with reality. We make mistakes. We suffer from errors of judgement. We are often wrong. Similarly, our memories are often at fault when it comes to recalling events, even relatively recent ones.

 

That is why one person's testimony of their experiences should always be weighed up in the wider context of the testimonies of others.

As a Christian you'd know this, because the eyewitness testimonies given in the four Gospels must be weighed up against each other to give a full and proper picture of the life of Jesus, right?

Objective, corroborating evidence given by many is much more reliable than the evidence of just one person. Even more so when the evidence comes solely from the subjective experiences of that individual. Can you see where I'm going with this?

 

OK, now to my point.

 

Justyna, why do you keep telling us about your subjective experiences of God, when, if you really do have a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology, you'd surely know the following?

 

A. That your subjective experiences of God are totally unverifiable. You can't verify them and neither can we. This kind of subjective testimony cannot be taken as reliable and so cuts no ice. Period.

B. If you really understood that, you wouldn't keep on handing us what God-said-to-you-today , what you 'feel' about Him or what your emotional states are. These things are only proof that you think you've experienced them - nothing more.

C. Nobody with a bona fide Degree in Psychology would even try to persuade anyone else with this sub-standard level of unreliable, subjective testimony. You'd have learned and understood this. You wouldn't have bothered us with it in the first place and you certainly wouldn't persist with it.

 

I'm sorry, but I must count myself among those of us here as being one who has grave doubts about you being qualified in the way you claim.

It's possible that you are, but it's also possible that you are some kind of fantasist who believes they have this Degree or that you are playing some kind of game with us. What you've said and the way you've said it persuades me that you are NOT what you say you are. So please... live up to your training and stop giving us your subjective experiences, come clean and tell us the truth or quit this forum.

 

I'll put this in everyday speech, for the sake of clarity. Stop jerking us around. We aren't fooled by you. Shut up, shape up or ship out.

 

 

BAA.

[xandermac]

I guess I should read all 44 pages of this before I ask why this person is still coming here and why people are still trying to convince her or him. Person doesn't know that once you make an account here your going straight to hell.