Apology & Rant

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Actually i think you have hit on a good idea

 

Read the entire thing, critique the shit out of it. And see after your critique, if you can still even consider it.

 

Do something that I have not even done, read the ENTIRE BIBLE.

 

Yeah. The ironic thing is, what keeps me believing has nothing to do with the Bible. It's all these fucking stories that I've read, heard about, watched, and listened to over the last... couple of years I guess.

 

I'm guessing that during the time this was written, yahweh, or whatever the fuck he's called, was still considered just a mountain god or something. I bet the omniscient, omnipresent characteristics weren't invented yet.

 

You're probably right.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Yeah. The ironic thing is, what keeps me believing has nothing to do with the Bible. It's all these fucking stories that I've read, heard about, watched, and listened to over the last... couple of years I guess.

 

 

But shouldn't the bible mean more then just regular old testimony. Shouldn't Christianity be try on its holy book, its supposed most accurate representation of god?

[Guest Valk0010]

When I would read that thing about righteousness for enoch and noah and the like, I couldn't help but wonder, isn't Jesus the only true righteous person on earth ever. Then why call people like noah righteous, without blaspheming Jesus? I took the position that there was different standards of righteousness which god used. Thinking about it right now, I think, but if there is actually different version of righteousness, and if one is more valuable then another, then why not be upfront and say so.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

But shouldn't the bible mean more then just regular old testimony. Shouldn't Christianity be try on its holy book, its supposed most accurate representation of god?

 

Yeah, it should. Don't mean it is, though.

 

 

When I would read that thing about righteousness for enoch and noah and the like, I couldn't help but wonder, isn't Jesus the only true righteous person on earth ever. Then why call people like noah righteous, without blaspheming Jesus? I took the position that there was different standards of righteousness which god used. Thinking about it right now, I think, but if there is actually different version of righteousness, and if one is more valuable then another, then why not be upfront and say so.

 

I think one problem is, the OT and NT are two seperate things that never should have been put together. Christianity and Judaism don't belong together. Without Judaism, Christianity is nothing. So maybe that means Christianity is bogus. Maybe Judaism is the right religion. Maybe they're both a crock of shit. Who knows.

[Shyone]

I'm guessing that during the time this was written, yahweh, or whatever the fuck he's called, was still considered just a mountain god or something. I bet the omniscient, omnipresent characteristics weren't invented yet.

Makes sense to me. I suppose that's why Moses had to go to the top of the mountain to "commune with god."

 

Otherwise, he could have just gone into his tent. But then they would have heard the clinking on the rock (assuming the "stone" was not clay...).

 

And that burning bush might have belonged to his wife. Ok, that was crass.

 

But it wasn't a coincidence that Mount Sinai was the place where god met mankind. I wonder if the verses in Exodus 19 had to be changed to make god "come down to the mountain" instead of "come down from the mountain." Hmmm?

 

23. Moses said to the LORD, "The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, `Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.'"

 

It seems clear to me that the translators of the bible specifically chose certain words that conveyed the ideas they held rather than other words that had a different connotation. Poke around a literal bible with strong's numbers and check the definitions.

 

At any rate, it appears that the ancient Hebrews held the belief (supported by their stories) that God could reside at one place at a time, and he couldn't be everywhere.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I'm guessing that during the time this was written, yahweh, or whatever the fuck he's called, was still considered just a mountain god or something. I bet the omniscient, omnipresent characteristics weren't invented yet.

Makes sense to me. I suppose that's why Moses had to go to the top of the mountain to "commune with god."

 

Otherwise, he could have just gone into his tent. But then they would have heard the clinking on the rock (assuming the "stone" was not clay...).

 

And that burning bush might have belonged to his wife. Ok, that was crass.

 

But it wasn't a coincidence that Mount Sinai was the place where god met mankind. I wonder if the verses in Exodus 19 had to be changed to make god "come down to the mountain" instead of "come down from the mountain." Hmmm?

 

23. Moses said to the LORD, "The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, `Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.'"

 

It seems clear to me that the translators of the bible specifically chose certain words that conveyed the ideas they held rather than other words that had a different connotation. Poke around a literal bible with strong's numbers and check the definitions.

 

At any rate, it appears that the ancient Hebrews held the belief (supported by their stories) that God could reside at one place at a time, and he couldn't be everywhere.

 

Things like this make it easier to see that it very well could be a man made lie.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Yeah, it should. Don't mean it is, though.

Well if it should, then try it, that way.

 

 

 

 

I think one problem is, the OT and NT are two seperate things that never should have been put together. Christianity and Judaism don't belong together. Without Judaism, Christianity is nothing. So maybe that means Christianity is bogus. Maybe Judaism is the right religion. Maybe they're both a crock of shit. Who knows.

Christianity I would say is a perversion of judaism. Of course apologists say, that, there wouldn't have been on its own a perversion of judaism, without there being some truth to Christianity. But the apostles were normal human beings, if they could believe in a perversion, that means a perversion is possible. And other people would convinced by said perversion, so a person that could believe a perversion could easily make a perversion he the creator, be able to believe on there own and are willing to accept.

 

Essentially I am saying, if there was no possibility on its own of perversion,without divine help, then no one could believe jesus.

 

Sorry I am rambling, but that is a somewhat common apologetic, that would come up in a discussion like this involving a christian.

[MagickMonkey]

And that burning bush might have belonged to his wife.

 

Yeah, and it talked, too.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

 

Yeah, it should. Don't mean it is, though.

Well if it should, then try it, that way.

 

 

 

 

I think one problem is, the OT and NT are two seperate things that never should have been put together. Christianity and Judaism don't belong together. Without Judaism, Christianity is nothing. So maybe that means Christianity is bogus. Maybe Judaism is the right religion. Maybe they're both a crock of shit. Who knows.

Christianity I would say is a perversion of judaism. Of course apologists say, that, there wouldn't have been on its own a perversion of judaism, without there being some truth to Christianity. But the apostles were normal human beings, if they could believe in a perversion, that means a perversion is possible. And other people would convinced by said perversion, so a person that could believe a perversion could easily make a perversion he the creator, be able to believe on there own and are willing to accept.

 

Essentially I am saying, if there was no possibility on its own of perversion,without divine help, then no one could believe jesus.

 

Sorry I am rambling, but that is a somewhat common apologetic, that would come up in a discussion like this involving a christian.

 

I don't know. Humans can be stupid. Who knows who's lying/deceived/telling the truth. Why the fuck do we trust anything. That goes for an old collection of superstitious writings, what scientists say, everything.

[MagickMonkey]

Why the fuck do we trust anything.

 

You can't trust anything 100%. Except for maybe what you learn in math classes. That's what I love about math. There's proofs for everything, and math truths are truly self evident when examined. That aside, you have to judge weather or not a source of truth is credible. The scientific method is a great way to learn truth, but it is practiced by humans whose imperfections will occasionally adversely effect the truth.

 

The good news is you do not have to have absolute knowledge of the truth to be happy. Just try to do the best you can with the information available.

[Crazy Donna]

I've started reading the Bible again. I'm only up to the 20th chapter of Genesis and I've already started to pick up on a few things. Some of these things have already been mentioned here on the forums, but they come across differently when you actually come across them in the Bible yourself.

 

For one thing, the serpent didn't lie to Eve.

 

Now the serpent was the shrewdest of all the creatures the LORD God had made. "Really?" he asked the woman. "Did God really say you must not eat any of the fruit in the garden?" "Of course we may eat it," the woman told him. "It's only the fruit from the tree at the center of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God says we must not eat it or even touch it, or we will die." "You won't die!" the serpent hissed. "God knows that your eyes will be opened when you eat it. You will become just like God, knowing everything, both good and evil."

 

Afterwards, God said "The people have become as we are, knowing everything, both good and evil. What if they eat the fruit of the tree of life? Then they will live forever!" Then he kicked them out of the garden.

 

I don't know about the whole "you won't die" thing, I'm still thinking about that. But about the other thing, about the serpent telling Eve that they'll get the knowledge of good and evil, he told the truth! There's not a whole lot of deceit in that.

 

Another thing. God called Noah righteous and blameless. The only one on the earth at that time. Yet, he later apparently inspires Paul to write that there are none that are righteous. Now, I already know the Christian answer to this one. That, when it speaks of someone being righteous, it means it in a different way than it does when it says that there are none righteous, no not one. Maybe one is righteous by human standards, and the other means righteous by God's standards. Maybe the apologists say that, maybe they don't, I don't know. But the thing about it is, God calls Noah righteous HIMSELF. Quoting the first verse in the 7th chapter of Genesis: "And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation." And that's from the KJV, because I know some Christians won't take me seriously if I keep quoting the NLT. So God himself admitted that Noah, an imperfect and "fallen" human being, was righteous IN HIS SIGHT. He was righteous. The only righteous man on the earth at that time. Then, much later, God speaks through Paul and says that no man is righteous. Besides that, this "righteous" man, after the flood, gets drunk!

 

God apparently rewarded Abram for lying, and punished Pharaoh for being the victim of that lie.

 

At that time a severe famine struck the land of Canaan, forcing Abram to go down to Egypt, where he lived as a foreigner. As he was approaching the border of Egypt, Abram said to his wife, Sarai, “Look, you are a very beautiful woman. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife. Let’s kill him; then we can have her!’ So please tell them you are my sister. Then they will spare my life and treat me well because of their interest in you.” And sure enough, when Abram arrived in Egypt, everyone spoke of Sarai’s beauty. When the palace officials saw her, they sang her praises to Pharaoh, their king, and Sarai was taken into his palace. Then Pharaoh gave Abram many gifts because of her—sheep, goats, cattle, male and female donkeys, male and female servants, and camels. But the Lord sent terrible plagues upon Pharaoh and his household because of Sarai, Abram’s wife. So Pharaoh summoned Abram and accused him sharply. “What have you done to me?” he demanded. “Why didn’t you tell me she was your wife? Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ and allow me to take her as my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and get out of here!” Pharaoh ordered some of his men to escort them, and he sent Abram out of the country, along with his wife and all his possessions.

 

Here's something else. This really surprised me.

 

That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again.” “Oh no,” they replied. “We’ll just spend the night out here in the city square.” But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. “Please, my brothers,” he begged, “don’t do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”

 

The above bolded text was spoken by a man that Peter called righteous.

 

Something else.. This was spoken by God when they were building the tower of Babel.

 

But the Lord came down to look at the city and the tower the people were building. “Look!” he said. “The people are united, and they all speak the same language. After this, nothing they set out to do will be impossible for them! Come, let’s go down and confuse the people with different languages. Then they won’t be able to understand each other.”

 

It almost seems like God is frightened by finite humans right there. That also seems to imply that, if they had gone on with it, they would have actually reached the heavens as they planned to.

 

One other thing, then I'll shut up. I've noticed that in the OT, God seems almost like a physical person. In many places, even in the short chapters in Genesis that I've read so far, God appaears to actually be talking with people in the flesh. When, in the NT, God is spirit, doesn't have a body, and has never been seen by anyone. He also seems to not be as "all-knowing" as he is said to be in the NT.

 

So the LORD told Abraham, "I have heard that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely evil, and that everything they do is wicked. I am going down to see whether or not these reports are true. Then I will know."

 

What's up with that?

 

I'm sure none of this is new to any of you here. Actually, for the most part, it's not even new to me. But there's something about reading it in the Bible for yourself that makes it different. I'm not sure if I really do believe this stuff anymore. That feeling probably won't last, but still.

I am SO glad you have started to do this. It might not feel like it now, but this is the way up. You can't be told that the bible is bunkum. You have to SHOW YOURSELF that it's bunkum. And you're doing it. You're seeing it for what it is -- manmade bullshit. I read the bible when I was a christian, but it was these discrepancies (like the ones you have mentioned here) that sewed the seeds for the dismantling of god, in my experience. You're chipping away at a huge boulder that is your belief. You'll chip away, and chip away, and it'll look like you've got nowhere.

 

Then one day, you'll be reading the bible, through these new eyes you're discovering, and you'll chip something, and the whole fucking boulder will crack in two. That's what it was like for me. I went from really wanting to believe god was real, to being UNABLE to believe he is real, and by extrapolation, hell and the rapture. When you're UNABLE to believe, your fear of hell, and of demons, will begin to erase itself.

 

You should print what you wrote here, and date it, and put it somewhere safe. Then, in twelve months, take it out and read it again. This is the turning point. I am very proud of you.

[DesertBob]

Christians have tap dances for everything. Were you to point out that some Biblical figure they call "righteous" was guilty of some heinous sin, they would say the "saint" was forgiven for his sins and got God's righteousness imputed to him or reckoned him. This allows them to talk out both sides of their mouth all the time, rejoicing in borrowed righteousness while simultaneously carrying on about the sinfulness of man. "All our rightousness is as filthy rags", so you need God's righteousness. They can also use this to discount the fact that unbelievers are capable of moral, ethical, compassionate acts. Nope -- doesn't count! All righteousness is not created equal! Nothing beats our grade A pure virgin righteousness.

 

Now I can see that kindness is kindness, objectively. But back in the day I could not objectively evaluate, say, kindness based on its own merits. An unbeliever's kindness was somehow counterfeit. Man, was I ever an arrogant prick.

[Shyone]

Things like this make it easier to see that it very well could be a man made lie.

The saying, "Man made gods in his own image" is pretty easy to see. Every pantheon, from the Sumerians to the Greeks and Roman Catholics, has a structure or hierarchy that just happens to mimic human structures. King of kings, nepotism, a close circle of confidants, messengers (like they would be necessary?), and the holy host of ordinary subjects. Just like humans.

 

At the saying, "you know your god is man-made when he hates the same people you do" also holds true generally.

 

Humans can come up with some interesting ideas, philosophies and attitudes that go beyond the strictly religious, but even those that are unlike the general tendencies that religions have are still man-made. They may just happen to be based on better humanistic principles.

 

A lot of Christians have been trying like hell to get rid of hell. I wish them luck, but in the great scheme of things, religion has nothing to say about life that we can't figure out ourselves.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

You can't trust anything 100%. Except for maybe what you learn in math classes. That's what I love about math. There's proofs for everything, and math truths are truly self evident when examined. That aside, you have to judge weather or not a source of truth is credible. The scientific method is a great way to learn truth, but it is practiced by humans whose imperfections will occasionally adversely effect the truth.

 

The good news is you do not have to have absolute knowledge of the truth to be happy. Just try to do the best you can with the information available.

 

Too bad I suck at math. Badly.

 

 

I am SO glad you have started to do this. It might not feel like it now, but this is the way up. You can't be told that the bible is bunkum. You have to SHOW YOURSELF that it's bunkum. And you're doing it. You're seeing it for what it is -- manmade bullshit. I read the bible when I was a christian, but it was these discrepancies (like the ones you have mentioned here) that sewed the seeds for the dismantling of god, in my experience. You're chipping away at a huge boulder that is your belief. You'll chip away, and chip away, and it'll look like you've got nowhere.

 

Then one day, you'll be reading the bible, through these new eyes you're discovering, and you'll chip something, and the whole fucking boulder will crack in two. That's what it was like for me. I went from really wanting to believe god was real, to being UNABLE to believe he is real, and by extrapolation, hell and the rapture. When you're UNABLE to believe, your fear of hell, and of demons, will begin to erase itself.

 

You should print what you wrote here, and date it, and put it somewhere safe. Then, in twelve months, take it out and read it again. This is the turning point. I am very proud of you.

 

I've read the NT a few times, but I haven't the OT. I figure reading it will either make it or break it for me. I'm actually enjoying it so far, I think the OT is more enjoyable to read than the NT. Then again, I know that will change when I get to all the Jewish laws.

 

Christians have tap dances for everything. Were you to point out that some Biblical figure they call "righteous" was guilty of some heinous sin, they would say the "saint" was forgiven for his sins and got God's righteousness imputed to him or reckoned him. This allows them to talk out both sides of their mouth all the time, rejoicing in borrowed righteousness while simultaneously carrying on about the sinfulness of man. "All our rightousness is as filthy rags", so you need God's righteousness. They can also use this to discount the fact that unbelievers are capable of moral, ethical, compassionate acts. Nope -- doesn't count! All righteousness is not created equal! Nothing beats our grade A pure virgin righteousness.

 

Now I can see that kindness is kindness, objectively. But back in the day I could not objectively evaluate, say, kindness based on its own merits. An unbeliever's kindness was somehow counterfeit. Man, was I ever an arrogant prick.

 

Many of these Christian "answers" are very hard to buy into.

 

Things like this make it easier to see that it very well could be a man made lie.

The saying, "Man made gods in his own image" is pretty easy to see. Every pantheon, from the Sumerians to the Greeks and Roman Catholics, has a structure or hierarchy that just happens to mimic human structures. King of kings, nepotism, a close circle of confidants, messengers (like they would be necessary?), and the holy host of ordinary subjects. Just like humans.

 

At the saying, "you know your god is man-made when he hates the same people you do" also holds true generally.

 

Humans can come up with some interesting ideas, philosophies and attitudes that go beyond the strictly religious, but even those that are unlike the general tendencies that religions have are still man-made. They may just happen to be based on better humanistic principles.

 

A lot of Christians have been trying like hell to get rid of hell. I wish them luck, but in the great scheme of things, religion has nothing to say about life that we can't figure out ourselves.

 

Hmm. Maybe.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I've now reached the book of Exodus. I am confused.

[Ro-bear]

God must like you much better than he likes me. In thirty-eight years of atheism he has never called once. My sleep pattern is the envy of mankind.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

God must like you much better than he likes me. In thirty-eight years of atheism he has never called once. My sleep pattern is the envy of mankind.

 

I doubt that. He's never called me either.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

With or without God, life is empty and meaningless. All the things that people fill their lives with are really just pointless distractions. Sure, they bring enjoyment, which is important, I would say. But what happens when that gets stripped away? Take all those distractions away.... and you've got an empty, pointless, depressing existence. It's all empty. And, for some reason, religion makes life more empty and void than it ever was to begin with. People talk about having a God shaped hole. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. All I know is, trying to fill the hole with God made the hole bigger. It didn't give me any fulfillment, meaning, or purpose, it just gave me a bigger void than I already had. Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

[MagickMonkey]

With or without God, life is empty and meaningless. All the things that people fill their lives with are really just pointless distractions. Sure, they bring enjoyment, which is important, I would say. But what happens when that gets stripped away? Take all those distractions away.... and you've got an empty, pointless, depressing existence. It's all empty. And, for some reason, religion makes life more empty and void than it ever was to begin with. People talk about having a God shaped hole. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. All I know is, trying to fill the hole with God made the hole bigger. It didn't give me any fulfillment, meaning, or purpose, it just gave me a bigger void than I already had. Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

 

I remember having the same attitude towards life immediately after deconversion. For me, the feeling of emptiness passed.

[Overcame Faith]

Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

 

Perhaps you would consider changing the last sentence to say, "Somehow, nothing I can do have tried can has yet take taken me back to that mentality."

 

I can't tell you what to do to get you back to a healthy mental attitude, but you are not a lost cause. It may feel that way, but you are a human being with much worth.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

With or without God, life is empty and meaningless. All the things that people fill their lives with are really just pointless distractions. Sure, they bring enjoyment, which is important, I would say. But what happens when that gets stripped away? Take all those distractions away.... and you've got an empty, pointless, depressing existence. It's all empty. And, for some reason, religion makes life more empty and void than it ever was to begin with. People talk about having a God shaped hole. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. All I know is, trying to fill the hole with God made the hole bigger. It didn't give me any fulfillment, meaning, or purpose, it just gave me a bigger void than I already had. Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

 

I remember having the same attitude towards life immediately after deconversion. For me, the feeling of emptiness passed.

 

If it's something that passes on its own, it's sure as hell taking its sweet time doing it.

 

Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

 

Perhaps you would consider changing the last sentence to say, "Somehow, nothing I can do have tried can has yet take taken me back to that mentality."

 

I can't tell you what to do to get you back to a healthy mental attitude, but you are not a lost cause. It may feel that way, but you are a human being with much worth.

 

I see nothing to try. Trying to find the right words to say to a doctor, when I have no idea how the hell I'm supposed to explain my situation to him? Nah. Cramming drugs down my throat, making me feel like shit physically til I finally find one that masks the problem good enough? Nah. Trying to think good, positive, happy thoughts, when that's not life, that's not real, and that's not healthy? Nah.

[Overcame Faith]

I see nothing to try. Trying to find the right words to say to a doctor, when I have no idea how the hell I'm supposed to explain my situation to him? Nah. Cramming drugs down my throat, making me feel like shit physically til I finally find one that masks the problem good enough? Nah. Trying to think good, positive, happy thoughts, when that's not life, that's not real, and that's not healthy? Nah.

 

How about finding something, anything, that you enjoy doing and concentrating on that for a while? It could be something like getting a pet, going for walks, making friends, doing cross word puzzles.... You get the picture. Finding something, no matter how insignificant it may seem to you, that you can actually enjoy doing. Anything (so long as it's not self-destructive or harmful to someone else).

 

Check this out:

 

http://www.discoverfun.com/freeinfo/500fun/when_severly_bored.html

[Shyone]

I've now reached the book of Exodus. I am confused.

They leave Egypt.

 

What's confusing? I find a lot of strange things in there, but then I "understand" that it's from a barbaric culture that accepted that punishment of an individual by killing his children was acceptable.

 

Moses and the Egyptian sorcerers? They both did a magic trick where sticks were turned into snakes. Moses snakes were better.

 

Is it something else?

[Shyone]

With or without God, life is empty and meaningless. All the things that people fill their lives with are really just pointless distractions. Sure, they bring enjoyment, which is important, I would say. But what happens when that gets stripped away? Take all those distractions away.... and you've got an empty, pointless, depressing existence. It's all empty. And, for some reason, religion makes life more empty and void than it ever was to begin with. People talk about having a God shaped hole. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. All I know is, trying to fill the hole with God made the hole bigger. It didn't give me any fulfillment, meaning, or purpose, it just gave me a bigger void than I already had. Actually, I didn't have much of a void to begin with, before religion came into the picture. Things used to be good. Very good, actually. I don't know what happened. It all went straight to hell. Somehow, nothing I can do can take me back to that mentality.

At first, I thought you were quoting the book of Ecclesiastes.

 

1. The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2. "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless."

 

17. So I hated life, because the work that is done under the sun was grievous to me. All of it is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

 

But, as with the book, it gets better.

 

13. I saw that wisdom is better than folly, just as light is better than darkness.

 

24. A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work.

 

22. So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

 

13. Better a poor but wise youth than an old but foolish king who no longer knows how to take warning.

14. The youth may have come from prison to the kingship, or he may have been born in poverty within his kingdom.

 

15. So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun.

[PocketAces]

I know what someone may be thinking.

 

"I knew he was faking it" "I knew he didn't really leave" "I knew he was trying to mess with us" "I knew he couldn't go through with it"

 

Whatever. Think what you want. I'm not here to post like I did before.

 

First off, I'd like to say this. If I offended anyone, or came across a certain way, I'm sorry. To be honest, I don't really see how I could have, but apparently I did. Talking over the internet doesn't always get everything across the way they were intended to, and things can be easily misunderstood. That last post I replied to rubbed me the wrong way, and really pissed me off. It took me by surprise. But like I said, if I come across that way, I'm sorry. It wasn't intentional, as far as I can understand myself. Anyway, no hard feelings, I hope.

 

I've been wrestling with the same fears and anxieties as before. But something happened just now.... I won't go into details about it.... I'm truly starting to believe, I think God really is trying to draw me back in. I can't get any rest or peace, and I think that may be because God will not let me have any rest or peace, until I come back. Or it also could be the OCD. Or it could be a little of both. I don't know. I can't say. But as I was saying, something happened that made me start to see what I think is God protecting me. If things had gone normally, I could have been killed today. But my plans changed yesterday when I made an appointment with my doctor. I kept thinking about canceling the appointment, but for some reason I never got around to it. So I kept the appointment, didn't do what I normally would have, and I'm alive right now, when there's a chance I might have died if I had canceled the appointment. I'm sure this doesn't sound convincing to any of you, but if you could see the full story from my perspective, you might. On one hand, I feel slightly amazed and thankful that God might actually be still protecting me from harm, even though I've talked so much shit about him. But on the other hand, I feel... slightly depressed, that this might confirm such a depressing worldview. Not depressing that maybe God cares enough to have intervened and saved my life, for that I'm thankful. But depressing as far as the biblical worldview goes. If I'm interpreting it right, then this worldview/mindset is indeed a mindfuck. Maybe there's a chance that I'm caught up in unbiblical legalism, and the "truth" is actually a lot more liberating than I see it to be. I hope that's the case. But unfortunately, I don't think so. So I don't really know what to do with these feelings. I think I need to pray.

 

I just wanted to tell this to someone and get it off my chest.

 

I wasn't sure what forum to put this under. This probably doesn't fit well into "ex-Christian Life", but it doesn't really fit under any others either. If this is out of place, feel free to move it.

I'm not getting into the argument for God that I see in this post simply because...

Maybe focusing on an illness that makes you suffer with anxiety problems and then leave the god stuff for like, accidental musings.

 

Simply because, if you are living out of control with your anxiety, you can have multiple enlightenment moments and they won't mean a damn thing until you get your anxiety levels and any type of emotional or mental illness you may suffer from.