Apology & Rant

[Guest Valk0010]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Because all religions are the same really, at least imo, different shades of the same stuff. You would be assuming a ton about religions in general to do otherwise. Think about though muslims for example would be like christians in this respect. Its late so i dont really have the time to research one for you. I assume this because only deism as far as religions im aware of says that god doesn't interfere. The rest grant prayers of some sort supposedly and also still are supposedly able to interfere in the world.

 

I wouldn't say they're all the same. Similar in certain ways, but not the same.

 

If the XIAN god does exist by some inexplicable means, I would refuse to bow down & follow "it" regardless. I would gladly go to hell and burn than serve that piece of shit, and right before I get sent to wherever that is(and if given the chance)I'd spit on the bastard.

 

Sometimes, I agree with this. Sometimes, anxiety overrides that and makes me think of what I'm "supposed to do". I can't support this religion. Taking a stand is all I can do. But then, there's the what if's, the phobias, the anxieties, all that shit. I need to get the fuck over it.

[lunaticheathen]

Edit: reread your post stratch previous statement

 

But why do you think that?

 

Why do I think that the Christian stories are the only valid ones? I don't. Like I said, they're the only ones I've heard. Ones dealing with Jesus, demons, etc.

 

OOO, OOOOOOO! I have stories, none to do with Jesus!

Actually, my spiritual world is more vibrant and actually active without the christian binding. Because it was binding, and blinding to me.

But all I have is personal experiences and stories. No empirical proof. But mine are certainly not less than the claims made by christians. And they're more valid for me, because they happened to me.

[Guest Valk0010]

Similar same, me getting the feeling your being dense. Think about really what i said about deism and theisms. Its a safe assumption.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

 

Yeah, I get that, when I say "stories", I don't mean taking random occurances and tagging God/the devil/whatever to it. Just the other stuff. Miraculous claims, testimonies of demonic activity, some (and I do mean some) of the near death experiences, supposed healings, things like that.

[Guest Valk0010]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

 

Yeah, I get that, when I say "stories", I don't mean taking random occurances and tagging God/the devil/whatever to it. Just the other stuff. Miraculous claims, testimonies of demonic activity, some (and I do mean some) of the near death experiences, supposed healings, things like that.

Same thing would happen for what your talking about. You were mever a catholic right, in a supernatural world what would say to explain away appearances of mary that is provable.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

OOO, OOOOOOO! I have stories, none to do with Jesus!

Actually, my spiritual world is more vibrant and actually active without the christian binding. Because it was binding, and blinding to me.

But all I have is personal experiences and stories. No empirical proof. But mine are certainly not less than the claims made by christians. And they're more valid for me, because they happened to me.

 

Interesting. I have a question though, do your experiences involve (for lack of a better term) incredible God-like things that could only be explained if there was a such thing as the supernatural? I've got what I'm trying to ask in my mind, but I'm not sure how to actually say what I'm trying to ask. Have you had anything happene in your personal testimony that would actually contradict the Christian claims of the supernatural?

 

 

Similar same, me getting the feeling your being dense. Think about really what i said about deism and theisms.

 

Similar and same can be quite a bit different.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

 

Yeah, I get that, when I say "stories", I don't mean taking random occurances and tagging God/the devil/whatever to it. Just the other stuff. Miraculous claims, testimonies of demonic activity, some (and I do mean some) of the near death experiences, supposed healings, things like that.

Same thing would happen for what your talking about.

 

Depends on specifically what we're talking about. Something like a tattoo disappearing, I don't think so.

[Guest Valk0010]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

 

Yeah, I get that, when I say "stories", I don't mean taking random occurances and tagging God/the devil/whatever to it. Just the other stuff. Miraculous claims, testimonies of demonic activity, some (and I do mean some) of the near death experiences, supposed healings, things like that.

Same thing would happen for what your talking about.

 

Depends on specifically what we're talking about. Something like a tattoo disappearing, I don't think so.

Here we go, the devil tricked that tattood fellow, he is try to keep you from becoming muslim, by tricking you repeatly..

 

There you go, me playing devils advocate doing what you pretty just said couldmt be done.

[★ Citsonga ★]

What about the validity of the Koran?

 

If we're talking about Islam's version of hell, yes.

 

So you see that Koran as being as valid as the Bible?

 

No.

 

Then what did you mean by the previous quote?

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

So what yeah going to, pretebd for a sec its a supernatural world of some sort. There is miracle claims by every belief system. A muslim for example says god cured my illness. What is a christian to say, probably, some varation on( that is not god working its the devil). See the problem here. Its a unprovable claim.

 

Yeah, I get that, when I say "stories", I don't mean taking random occurances and tagging God/the devil/whatever to it. Just the other stuff. Miraculous claims, testimonies of demonic activity, some (and I do mean some) of the near death experiences, supposed healings, things like that.

Same thing would happen for what your talking about.

 

Depends on specifically what we're talking about. Something like a tattoo disappearing, I don't think so.

Here we go, the devil tricked that tattood fellow, he is try to keep you from becoming muslim, by tricking you repeatly..

 

There you go, me playing devils advocate doing what you pretty just said couldmt be done.

 

Ok, I got a question. Do these types of things happen to Muslims? Unexplainable miraculous things, such as a dissapearing tattoo (just an example)? If so, then you got a good point. Maybe the Christian testimonies are actually Islam's version of the devil tricking them. Who the fuck knows, anything is possible.

[lunaticheathen]

OOO, OOOOOOO! I have stories, none to do with Jesus!

Actually, my spiritual world is more vibrant and actually active without the christian binding. Because it was binding, and blinding to me.

But all I have is personal experiences and stories. No empirical proof. But mine are certainly not less than the claims made by christians. And they're more valid for me, because they happened to me.

 

Interesting. I have a question though, do your experiences involve (for lack of a better term) incredible God-like things that could only be explained if there was a such thing as the supernatural? I've got what I'm trying to ask in my mind, but I'm not sure how to actually say what I'm trying to ask. Have you had anything happene in your personal testimony that would actually contradict the Christian claims of the supernatural?

 

Well, the closest thing I can come to that actually involves me and a friend. We both dreamed/remembered the same past life, from our own individual perspectives. Not just the same time period, place, things that can be found in history books - actual happenings. Unless she was in my head (another inexplicable thing, since she wasn't anywhere physically near me when I dreamed/remembered any of this), she couldn't have told me the things she did, and vice versa for me to her. That's about the freakiest thing I can remember. Most of the other stuff could (but I doubt it) be "mass hysteria/hallucinations" among friends. Or mental disorders. Or just all in our heads.

I'm sure some people would consider my above example some form of shared delusion as well. But it DOES contradict christian doctrine (unless you follow Origen). Yet, I know christians who would just say demons were infesting my friend and I.

You can't win at this shit, really.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What about the validity of the Koran?

 

If we're talking about Islam's version of hell, yes.

 

So you see that Koran as being as valid as the Bible?

 

No.

 

Then what did you mean by the previous quote?

 

I meant that the validity of the Koran is important if we're talking about Islam's version of hell, just like the validity of the New Testament is important if we're talking about its version of hell.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

OOO, OOOOOOO! I have stories, none to do with Jesus!

Actually, my spiritual world is more vibrant and actually active without the christian binding. Because it was binding, and blinding to me.

But all I have is personal experiences and stories. No empirical proof. But mine are certainly not less than the claims made by christians. And they're more valid for me, because they happened to me.

 

Interesting. I have a question though, do your experiences involve (for lack of a better term) incredible God-like things that could only be explained if there was a such thing as the supernatural? I've got what I'm trying to ask in my mind, but I'm not sure how to actually say what I'm trying to ask. Have you had anything happene in your personal testimony that would actually contradict the Christian claims of the supernatural?

 

Well, the closest thing I can come to that actually involves me and a friend. We both dreamed/remembered the same past life, from our own individual perspectives. Not just the same time period, place, things that can be found in history books - actual happenings. Unless she was in my head (another inexplicable thing, since she wasn't anywhere physically near me when I dreamed/remembered any of this), she couldn't have told me the things she did, and vice versa for me to her. That's about the freakiest thing I can remember. Most of the other stuff could (but I doubt it) be "mass hysteria/hallucinations" among friends. Or mental disorders. Or just all in our heads.

I'm sure some people would consider my above example some form of shared delusion as well. But it DOES contradict christian doctrine (unless you follow Origen). Yet, I know christians who would just say demons were infesting my friend and I.

You can't win at this shit, really.

 

Confusing stuff. You're right, it seems you really can't win at this shit, no matter what.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Ok, I got a question. Do these types of things happen to Muslims? Unexplainable miraculous things, such as a dissapearing tattoo (just an example)? If so, then you got a good point. Maybe the Christian testimonies are actually Islam's version of the devil tricking them. Who the fuck knows, anything is possible.

Well you must ignored me on what i said on deism and theisms. We wouldn't call islam or other theistic religions, theism, if there particular god, didn't continuely supposedly interfere in world affairs.

 

That is my point pretty much if this is a supernatural world, who does really know?

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

 

Ok, I got a question. Do these types of things happen to Muslims? Unexplainable miraculous things, such as a dissapearing tattoo (just an example)? If so, then you got a good point. Maybe the Christian testimonies are actually Islam's version of the devil tricking them. Who the fuck knows, anything is possible.

Well you must ignored me on what i said on deism and theisms. We wouldn't call islam or other theistic religions, theism, if there particular god, didn't continuely supposedly interfere in world affairs.

 

That is my point pretty much if this is a supernatural world, who does really know?

 

Just because I didn't comment on that doesn't mean I ignored you. Misunderstood maybe, but not ignored.

[★ Citsonga ★]

What about the validity of the Koran?

 

If we're talking about Islam's version of hell, yes.

 

So you see that Koran as being as valid as the Bible?

 

No.

 

Then what did you mean by the previous quote?

 

I meant that the validity of the Koran is important if we're talking about Islam's version of hell, just like the validity of the New Testament is important if we're talking about its version of hell.

 

So in that respect the Koran is as valid as the Bible.

 

Why do you fear Christianity's hell but not Islam's hell?

[Guest Valk0010]

Sorry didnt mean to be snarky, im tired.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

What about the validity of the Koran?

 

If we're talking about Islam's version of hell, yes.

 

So you see that Koran as being as valid as the Bible?

 

No.

 

Then what did you mean by the previous quote?

 

I meant that the validity of the Koran is important if we're talking about Islam's version of hell, just like the validity of the New Testament is important if we're talking about its version of hell.

 

So in that respect the Koran is as valid as the Bible.

 

Why do you fear Christianity's hell but not Islam's hell?

 

The main reason is because I've been exposed to one but not the other.

 

One other reason is, I believe, for certain reasons, that Islam is a false religion, and I don't put any stock in its claims.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Why do you fear Christianity's hell but not Islam's hell?

 

The main reason is because I've been exposed to one but not the other.

 

EXACTLY! And if you were raised in a Muslim environment instead of Christian, then you would be fearing Islam's hell and not Christianity's.

 

One other reason is, I believe, for certain reasons, that Islam is a false religion, and I don't put any stock in its claims.

 

And if you were raised Muslim, you would believe ("for certain reasons") that Christianity is a false religion and wouldn't put any stock in its claims.

 

Don't you see that the vast majority of people raised in any religious environment tend to believe that particular religion? Don't you see that it's not as much a matter of truly "certain reasons" as it is cultural influence?

[Tabula Rasa]

Perfect Insanity, I know how you feel. Even though I don't believe in hell anymore, I still get creeped out by movies, that mention hell or demons.

 

In regard to the guy saying this woman's tattoo vanished, well he needs to prove it. Show some before and after pictures. Some christians can AND do lie if they think it's for the "Greater good" of bringing people to christ.

 

Now here's something to think about that I hope will help you get rid of your hell fears.

 

Supposedly, God is all powerful. "He" can do anything. Make time run backwards, sideways, in a loop de loop. "He" could make all the planets in our solar system start singing and dancing in a cosmic musical routine. "He" can do anything. So, then if there's a supreme being, capable of bending reality to it's whim, or to put a finer point on it, reality is whatever it wills it to be, why would it care if it was worshipped or not?

 

If God wanted to, it could make beings that would worship it because a relationship with it would be the height of ecstasy. They'd want to worship it, because it was the best of all possible choices.

 

I'm rambling, so I'll try to get to the point. If a supreme being exists, that is the absolute master of all there is, was , or will be, who determines reality to be whatever it wants, it would be so transcendent, so beyond anything any mind in the universe could comprehend, it wouldn't care if it was praised by any of it's creations.

 

The problem I see with monotheists, is they really can't get a grasp on what omnipotent means.

 

To sum it up: An all powerful being doesn't want, need, or care if it has worshippers. So it's not going to punish anyone who doesn't kiss it's cosmic ass.

 

I hope this helps.

Tab

[Xerces]

 

The problem I see with monotheists, is they really can't get a grasp on what omnipotent means.

 

 

Don't you know? Its not about the inconsistencies, its about Jesuses love for us and how we're all dirty sinners without him. Never mind all those powers Gawd is "supposed" to have, its about us being hopeless and depressed without Jayzuz inside us!

 

But yeah, I agree with this. If "God" can bend reality like puddy why is the universe the way it is? Why is it not more pristine and perfect instead of cold and deadly? Why would "god" put us on a planet, when "god" could have just as well made heaven our home like his "angels". Whats the purpose of organic life? Being the almighty sure must be hard! The shithead would allow his book to be tainted by men, and even in the tainted version there aren't answers to any of these questions. Faith is the ultimate cop out.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

EXACTLY! And if you were raised in a Muslim environment instead of Christian, then you would be fearing Islam's hell and not Christianity's.

 

You're probably right.

 

 

Perfect Insanity, I know how you feel. Even though I don't believe in hell anymore, I still get creeped out by movies, that mention hell or demons.

 

In regard to the guy saying this woman's tattoo vanished, well he needs to prove it. Show some before and after pictures. Some christians can AND do lie if they think it's for the "Greater good" of bringing people to christ.

 

Now here's something to think about that I hope will help you get rid of your hell fears.

 

Supposedly, God is all powerful. "He" can do anything. Make time run backwards, sideways, in a loop de loop. "He" could make all the planets in our solar system start singing and dancing in a cosmic musical routine. "He" can do anything. So, then if there's a supreme being, capable of bending reality to it's whim, or to put a finer point on it, reality is whatever it wills it to be, why would it care if it was worshipped or not?

 

If God wanted to, it could make beings that would worship it because a relationship with it would be the height of ecstasy. They'd want to worship it, because it was the best of all possible choices.

 

I'm rambling, so I'll try to get to the point. If a supreme being exists, that is the absolute master of all there is, was , or will be, who determines reality to be whatever it wants, it would be so transcendent, so beyond anything any mind in the universe could comprehend, it wouldn't care if it was praised by any of it's creations.

 

The problem I see with monotheists, is they really can't get a grasp on what omnipotent means.

 

To sum it up: An all powerful being doesn't want, need, or care if it has worshippers. So it's not going to punish anyone who doesn't kiss it's cosmic ass.

 

I hope this helps.

Tab

 

Actually, he did show before and after pictures. One with the tattoo, one without.

 

I don't really understand the whole omnipotent thing, but yeah, you have a point.

[lunaticheathen]

 

Perfect Insanity, I know how you feel. Even though I don't believe in hell anymore, I still get creeped out by movies, that mention hell or demons.

 

In regard to the guy saying this woman's tattoo vanished, well he needs to prove it. Show some before and after pictures. Some christians can AND do lie if they think it's for the "Greater good" of bringing people to christ.

 

Now here's something to think about that I hope will help you get rid of your hell fears.

 

Supposedly, God is all powerful. "He" can do anything. Make time run backwards, sideways, in a loop de loop. "He" could make all the planets in our solar system start singing and dancing in a cosmic musical routine. "He" can do anything. So, then if there's a supreme being, capable of bending reality to it's whim, or to put a finer point on it, reality is whatever it wills it to be, why would it care if it was worshipped or not?

 

If God wanted to, it could make beings that would worship it because a relationship with it would be the height of ecstasy. They'd want to worship it, because it was the best of all possible choices.

 

I'm rambling, so I'll try to get to the point. If a supreme being exists, that is the absolute master of all there is, was , or will be, who determines reality to be whatever it wants, it would be so transcendent, so beyond anything any mind in the universe could comprehend, it wouldn't care if it was praised by any of it's creations.

 

The problem I see with monotheists, is they really can't get a grasp on what omnipotent means.

 

To sum it up: An all powerful being doesn't want, need, or care if it has worshippers. So it's not going to punish anyone who doesn't kiss it's cosmic ass.

 

I hope this helps.

Tab

 

Actually, he did show before and after pictures. One with the tattoo, one without.

 

I don't really understand the whole omnipotent thing, but yeah, you have a point.

 

I am 100% with Tab on the whole "omnipotent" thing. With perfect understanding, one wouldn't be jealous or angry. Abraham's god is a fucking brat. Therefore, he doesn't have perfect understanding.

 

I also have heard of people's bodies "rejecting" tattoos, without attributing it to "Jesus." One guy told me his body just "ate up" the ink. Another person experienced the body literally oozing the ink out of them. The first guy, who I met in person, showed me remnants of tattoos that didn't take. He stopped trying to get tattoos, since it seemed like his body just wasn't having it. He's a pagan. I don't think the tattoo thing really requires a supernatural explanation. The human body is fuckin freaky on its own.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

 

Perfect Insanity, I know how you feel. Even though I don't believe in hell anymore, I still get creeped out by movies, that mention hell or demons.

 

In regard to the guy saying this woman's tattoo vanished, well he needs to prove it. Show some before and after pictures. Some christians can AND do lie if they think it's for the "Greater good" of bringing people to christ.

 

Now here's something to think about that I hope will help you get rid of your hell fears.

 

Supposedly, God is all powerful. "He" can do anything. Make time run backwards, sideways, in a loop de loop. "He" could make all the planets in our solar system start singing and dancing in a cosmic musical routine. "He" can do anything. So, then if there's a supreme being, capable of bending reality to it's whim, or to put a finer point on it, reality is whatever it wills it to be, why would it care if it was worshipped or not?

 

If God wanted to, it could make beings that would worship it because a relationship with it would be the height of ecstasy. They'd want to worship it, because it was the best of all possible choices.

 

I'm rambling, so I'll try to get to the point. If a supreme being exists, that is the absolute master of all there is, was , or will be, who determines reality to be whatever it wants, it would be so transcendent, so beyond anything any mind in the universe could comprehend, it wouldn't care if it was praised by any of it's creations.

 

The problem I see with monotheists, is they really can't get a grasp on what omnipotent means.

 

To sum it up: An all powerful being doesn't want, need, or care if it has worshippers. So it's not going to punish anyone who doesn't kiss it's cosmic ass.

 

I hope this helps.

Tab

 

Actually, he did show before and after pictures. One with the tattoo, one without.

 

I don't really understand the whole omnipotent thing, but yeah, you have a point.

 

I am 100% with Tab on the whole "omnipotent" thing. With perfect understanding, one wouldn't be jealous or angry. Abraham's god is a fucking brat. Therefore, he doesn't have perfect understanding.

 

I also have heard of people's bodies "rejecting" tattoos, without attributing it to "Jesus." One guy told me his body just "ate up" the ink. Another person experienced the body literally oozing the ink out of them. The first guy, who I met in person, showed me remnants of tattoos that didn't take. He stopped trying to get tattoos, since it seemed like his body just wasn't having it. He's a pagan. I don't think the tattoo thing really requires a supernatural explanation. The human body is fuckin freaky on its own.

 

Did this happen soon after he got the tattoo? Or years later?