Former Christian Friend Became An Atheist/satanist

[OnceConvinced]

The hardest part for me to understand is how anyone can be an ex-Christain.

 

I'm not sure how we can explain this to you, because many people have already gone to great lengths to do this.

 

 

I guess we all backslide and fall behind, but to actually deconvert and run the other way and not return, seems strange to me.

 

Well you see, this is not the case for most of us. We did not willfully turn against God and take up Satanism like you did last year. As long as you have this mindset that we rebelled, you will not be able to understand. The simple fact of the matter is we ceased to believe. This is not "heading in the opposite direction" and if you continue to see it that way you will never understand.

 

I try to understand this and I cant.

 

And you won't as long as you take seriously the flawed scripture "He who is not for me is against me." Because to be against something you first have to believe in it and then you willfully have to rebel against it as you did last year.

 

I have read the testimonies but I dont get why people whould not return to God after a while. It doesnt make sense to me.

 

It is because we did NOT rebel. People who deliberately turn from God are rebelling. They continue to believe and because they believe, they later return. For us we ceased to believe. Of course you continue to call us liars and say that this is not the case and that we chose to rebel. As long as you continue to believe that nonsense, you will never understand.

 

I try to understand it, but I am unable to right now. Its not that I dont want to, its just that I cant at the moment.

 

How about an exercise. One of the things we are good at doing here is putting ourselves in a hypothetical situation. We do this all the time here, discussing God and Christianity as though it is real, but not believing it to be real. Imagine you are writing a story about a character in some really far out situation that you yourself have never been in before. You've created this crazy world with totally different rules to the world you live in. Now as a writer you have to put yourself in the shoes of that character, imagining that you are her and imagine how she would respond in this totally crazy scenario. Do you think you can do that?

 

Now lets say in the story everybody worships an invisible blob of goo which lives in the bottom of the ocean. But no one has ever seen it. But you have been brought up believing in this blob of goo and to you it is very real. You've even met this blob of goo in the middle of the night. Then one day you discover proof that the blob of goo no longer exists and that you were living a lie. You realise that the blob of goo you met that night was a dream. You now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the blob of goo does not exist. No matter how hard you try to, you can't convince yourself the blob exists. You now find yourself in a situation where you are UNABLE to believe. You can't be angry at the goo, because it doesn't exist. You can't rebel against it because there's nothing to rebel against. And the blob of goo's nemesis, the Ice Monster can't possibly exist either, because for him to exist, the blob of goo must exist. So you certainly can't go running to the Ice monster. What do you do? You become an Ex-Goo-Worshipper.

 

Can you put yourself in that hyperthetical situation, Justyna? If you can, then you should be able to understand the situation of the majority of us here.

 

I cant understand why anyone would not want to be with God.

If God exists and was loving and wonderful, I wouldn't be able to understand it either. See how I can put myself in a hypothetical situation? Actually it's not that hard at all because I was a committed Christian for so many years and couldn't understand it myself at the time. It wasn't until I lost my faith that I was forced into the situation of understanding it.

 

 

When I was away from God I was miserable

 

I am no less or no more happy now than I was as a Christian. You go through periods, some sad, some happy. If you think you're gonna be happy all the time as a Christian, then you're in for a nasty surprise.

 

.when I found myself in His arms again, I finally felt happy and rejoiced again! I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, I just dont get why anyone who once knew God on a personal level, does not want to know Him forever.

 

I can want something as much as I like, but wanting it doesn't make it happen. I really really really want to win the lottery too. But for that to happen, just because I want it to, is gonna take a bonifide miracle.

[Michael]

Is her style of evangelism new? This bitchy way of dealing with the lost? Or have you seen this style somewhere else? Maybe we are experiencing the birth of a very unique way of evangelism.

[Vigile]

Is her style of evangelism new? This bitchy way of dealing with the lost? Or have you seen this style somewhere else? Maybe we are experiencing the birth of a very unique way of evangelism.

 

It's not evangelism. It's her working out her own personal demons on us. I say she deserves the ban and I don't favor this measure often.

[Michael]

Is her style of evangelism new? This bitchy way of dealing with the lost? Or have you seen this style somewhere else? Maybe we are experiencing the birth of a very unique way of evangelism.

 

It's not evangelism. It's her working out her own personal demons on us. I say she deserves the ban and I don't favor this measure often.

 

I agree that this leads to nowhere, because she is caught in her dream world (her future as a powerful christian healing counselor, her own ministry when she can lead her father to god). She is not able to leave her position so there is no way to let this become a REAL conversation. But there are still people who are willing to deal with her. Less than a week before, less than yesterday. Maybe the interest in her dies anyway.

[Realist]

Do you know when I will see my earlthy father again? Probably when God gives me my own ministry oneday and my father comes to the altar to get saved!

 

No wonder he doesn't want to be around you. What an obnoxious ass of a daughter you are.

 

 

... I think for Daddy suddenly to turn out to be such a dickhead after all he's done for her it can be only one thing. He's cut the $$$$ off!!!!

 

Let's face it money means heaps to her ... she did not want to be identified as a fundie christian! Why? Because they do not dress right!!

[Realist]

 

I don't blame her for seeing you as a threat. You're a real scarey guy! (just getting you back! he he)

 

 

... Hey, what's a "scarey" guy? I looked in the dictionary and could not find it! (I always knew you were a scunt!) (PLEASE don't put me on ignore now!) :-)

[Crazy Donna]

Is her style of evangelism new? This bitchy way of dealing with the lost? Or have you seen this style somewhere else? Maybe we are experiencing the birth of a very unique way of evangelism.

 

It's not evangelism. It's her working out her own personal demons on us. I say she deserves the ban and I don't favor this measure often.

 

I agree that this leads to nowhere, because she is caught in her dream world (her future as a powerful christian healing counselor, her own ministry when she can lead her father to god). She is not able to leave her position so there is no way to let this become a REAL conversation. But there are still people who are willing to deal with her. Less than a week before, less than yesterday. Maybe the interest in her dies anyway.

I agree. I think she's trying to fix her low self esteem by planning to have this awesome future in the ministry. She probably feels really crummy about her life, and is focussing on this future, but she doesn't have the life skills or emotional management skills to make it happen. It IS a fantasy, I think you're right about that. She's trying to make her fantasy world happen, but without engaging in reality, that is never going to happen.

 

I also call for the ban hammer. She doesn't take any notice of anything I say to her, or anyone else's advice for that matter. She doesn't deserve this forum, even if she was really deconverting. She is too emotionally dishonest, and childish. I say let her deconvert on her own, because ultimately I think that's where she's going.

[.god]

The hardest part for me to understand is how anyone can be an ex-Christain. I guess we all backslide and fall behind, but to actually deconvert and run the other way and not return, seems strange to me. I try to understand this and I cant. I have read the testimonies but I dont get why people whould not return to God after a while. It doesnt make sense to me. I try to understand it, but I am unable to right now. Its not that I dont want to, its just that I cant at the moment. I cant understand why anyone would not want to be with God. When I was away from God I was miserable..when I found myself in His arms again, I finally felt happy and rejoiced again! I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, I just dont get why anyone who once knew God on a personal level, does not want to know Him forever. Thats the bottomline here. Thats why I dont understand, cause I cant see how this can happen. Now I know that it has happened this way with people here, but as to WHY...I have not idea. Oh cause God was silent? Well He was silent with me too..I got through it. Cause He does things we dont understand? Well I dont understand things, it does not bother me.

 

Its all very strange to me.

 

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you have to reject it. The bottom line is you should learn to accept it, accept people the way they are. Otherwise you're just channeling your dad here, who doesn't want to accept the way you are.

 

It's sad if you can't understand that cornerstone of empathy. People here can empathize with your lack of acceptance by your father, your need to evangelize to others and your desire for respect, and yet you are unable to spare an ounce of empathy for people here and understand other people's desire for the same respect you desire.

 

 

I'm almost ready to call narcissistic personality disorder. I assume you've got your DSMV IV nearby if you don't know this one off the top of your head:

 

A person with narcissistic personality disorder:

 

* Reacts to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation

* Takes advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals

* Has feelings of self-importance

* Exaggerates achievements and talents

* Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love

* Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment

* Requires constant attention and admiration

* Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy

* Has obsessive self-interest

* Pursues mainly selfish goals

 

You know, you don't want to end up like this poor guy (all the internet advice in the world didn't do an ounce of good for him):

http://www.happierabroad.com/introduction.php

 

Sadly, I think his deconversion is posted somewhere on this site too.

[Astreja]

When I was away from God I was miserable..when I found myself in His arms again, I finally felt happy and rejoiced again!

I think that says more about the way you view and deal with life than it does about existence or nonexistence of gods.

 

Speaking only for Myself, the last time I was miserable to any degree was when I had a bad flu last year... And even then I found a great many things to enjoy. (It helped that I had a large stack of books sitting beside the bed, including Watchmen and a couple of Terry Pratchett novels.) I've never felt any misery that could be attributed to lack of belief in the Christian god.

 

I have read the testimonies but I dont get why people whould not return to God after a while.

Simple: We can't "return" to something that is no longer real to us. We would have to pretend to believe, and that is not a viable option for us.

 

I'm almost ready to call narcissistic personality disorder.

Correct Me if I'm wrong about NPD, but don't narcissists tend to cut people out of their lives (i.e., put them on "ignore") if those people challenge the narcissist's self-image?

[OnceConvinced]

 

I don't blame her for seeing you as a threat. You're a real scarey guy! (just getting you back! he he)

 

 

... Hey, what's a "scarey" guy? I looked in the dictionary and could not find it! (I always knew you were a scunt!) (PLEASE don't put me on ignore now!) :-)

 

{sticks fingers in ears} Nah nah nah nah nah, I can't hear you!

[OnceConvinced]

Do you know when I will see my earlthy father again? Probably when God gives me my own ministry oneday and my father comes to the altar to get saved!

 

No wonder he doesn't want to be around you. What an obnoxious ass of a daughter you are.

 

 

... I think for Daddy suddenly to turn out to be such a dickhead after all he's done for her it can be only one thing. He's cut the $$$$ off!!!!

 

Let's face it money means heaps to her ... she did not want to be identified as a fundie christian! Why? Because they do not dress right!!

 

Ummmm, Realist. You forgot to put in a comma after "face it".

[ShackledNoMore]

How about an exercise. One of the things we are good at doing here is putting ourselves in a hypothetical situation. We do this all the time here, discussing God and Christianity as though it is real, but not believing it to be real. Imagine you are writing a story about a character in some really far out situation that you yourself have never been in before. You've created this crazy world with totally different rules to the world you live in. Now as a writer you have to put yourself in the shoes of that character, imagining that you are her and imagine how she would respond in this totally crazy scenario. Do you think you can do that?

 

Now lets say in the story everybody worships an invisible blob of goo which lives in the bottom of the ocean. But no one has ever seen it. But you have been brought up believing in this blob of goo and to you it is very real. You've even met this blob of goo in the middle of the night. Then one day you discover proof that the blob of goo no longer exists and that you were living a lie. You realise that the blob of goo you met that night was a dream. You now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the blob of goo does not exist. No matter how hard you try to, you can't convince yourself the blob exists. You now find yourself in a situation where you are UNABLE to believe. You can't be angry at the goo, because it doesn't exist. You can't rebel against it because there's nothing to rebel against. And the blob of goo's nemesis, the Ice Monster can't possibly exist either, because for him to exist, the blob of goo must exist. So you certainly can't go running to the Ice monster. What do you do? You become an Ex-Goo-Worshipper.

That's an excellent way of putting it, and I would think that if anything could illustrate the point, this could.

 

Unfortunately, the trouble is that if you offered a hypothetical such as "you're a jet pilot and you're faced with some decision" there would be no problem, but if the hypothetical is that god is not the god that the souped up xian believes him to be, then the response either has to become, "yes, but He IS" in order to protect and perpetuate your belief, or to cling to a weak apologetic and turn off any further reasoning or consideration of counter arguments.

 

In this variation, it would be, "yes, but God is NOT a blob of goo!"

[DesertBob]

Everytime he calls my sister, I tell her to tell him I am not there ... Its his fault we no longer talk.

These two statements are in conflict, Justyna. It sounds to me like he would talk to you, if you allowed it. The actual problem is you don't want to hear what he has to say.

 

You say that he believes you'll "never amount to anything". That sounds like a father who has hopes and dreams for a daughter he cares about. It may be somewhat impure (he may have ego invested for instance in whether you reflect well on him or not) and it may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater (because he's not giving you the space to be a Christian so long as you treat him with respect; he's excessively connecting "Christian" with "loser").

 

Here's a situation that is just the opposite of yours: I know a young man who just turned 18 who is an atheist and a social and political liberal. His positions are mindful and well thought out. His father on the other hand is a Christian and a social and political conservative -- one could even say, knee-jerk arch-conservative. This young man has a very (and in my view unnecessarily) prickly relationship with his father. I try to remind him that his father loves him. Dad pays for his college education, takes him on road trips to visit colleges and attend ball games and interesting conferences, and just keeps trying to reach out to his son despite the fact that his son basically treats him like shit. Yes, the step mom is an arrogant ass. Yes, the Dad is rigid and bull-headed and disrespectful of his son's beliefs. Yes, he doesn't truly LISTEN to his son. But it's achingly obvious that he loves his son and would do anything for him that he saw as remotely beneficial. That he wants to be close -- though perhaps he is tone deaf and ham-fisted about it and doesn't quite know how to go about it.

 

My take on the whole thing is that BOTH of these men are rigid. The son feels he cannot respect his father for what he sees as the indefensible stupidity of being a Christian -- just as you, Justyna, cannot respect your father (or at least not do what it takes to insure that he feels respect) for what you see as the indefensible stupidity of being an unbeliever.

 

This sad scenario plays out all over the world all over the time.

 

My advice to you, Justyna, is simple. KNOCK IT OFF. You're the daughter, not the parent. You're treating your father like a child. It's inappropriate and disrespectful. He gave you life, raised you, and probably supported you for a long time very generously. By your own admission he worked hard to see that you had a good life. He loves you and has been a good Dad. Not perfect, I'm sure, but good. HE DOESN'T DESERVE THE SHIT YOU'RE GIVING HIM. This has nothing to do with your religious beliefs, or his, or mine. It's just COMMON COURTESY and a matter of LOVE.

 

Paradoxically you're practically guaranteeing that he'll never become a Christian, by showing him how Christians act.

 

I'm not saying you have to deconvert. You can maintain your beliefs because that is your right. But your Dad's lack of acceptance of them doesn't have to threaten you and it's not your mission in life to save his soul. His soul is his business, not yours. If you are so worried about his soul, pray that someone else or some circumstances will lead him to the truth BUT ITS NOT YOUR JOB OR MISSION.

 

I see both my young friend and his Dad, and you and your Dad, as cases of two stubborn and inflexible people (child and parent) digging in their heels. Be big. Quit feeding this sick dynamic. Show the love and humility and gratitude you claim to possess.

[agnosticator]

I dont care what he thinks anymore, I do what I want. I dont need his support nor his approval.

 

Right. You can also keep this in your mind while in his presence.

 

Im better off without him. Maybe oneday we will see each other, I am not opposed to that, but he needs to come here...Im not going over there anymore.

 

But turning away or cutting him out of your life won't solve anything. DesertBob offers good advice. Be a mature and caring person towards your father. You will also have to deal with other people in your life that you disagree with. You'll need to learn to coexist with them too. But there is a difference between coexisting and tolerating people. One shuts the door to a possible healthy relationship, while the other learns to allow others their own differences. Mature people learn to "agree to disagree" without malice.

[agnosticator]

I try to understand this and I cant. I have read the testimonies but I dont get why people whould not return to God after a while. It doesnt make sense to me. I try to understand it, but I am unable to right now.

 

We can't return to something that we believe to be untrue. To return would mean that we believed but left for some other reason(s)-but not unbelief.

 

 

I just dont get why anyone who once knew God on a personal level, does not want to know Him forever. Thats the bottomline here. Thats why I dont understand, cause I cant see how this can happen. Now I know that it has happened this way with people here, but as to WHY...I have not idea.

 

Believing one has a personal relationship with God, doesn't mean it is actually true. There are millions who believe as strongly as you that Allah loves them personally. Do you think that is real or are they misguided?

 

I realized my belief was making God human. If God can't be proven/disproven to exist(theologians say it can't be done), then we are left with faith without knowledge. We believe without knowing what God is really like. If God exists, God would be beyond human understanding. God would not have human attributes. The Bible creates a picture of God as very human. He has feelings and emotions. He's a father figure who has expectations for his children. But His morals display childish vengeance rather than mature guidance.

[buffettphan]

P.S ... when somone is on my ignore list, they can still read my posts and come to know God through them.

 

 

 

 

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

 

With that attitude of yours, Justyna, If anything, you're doing just the opposite. Like I said before, your god (if s/he/it really existed) would be quite proud of you. NOT!

 

You need to grow up, be grateful for what your dad did for you and continues to do by reaching out to you, and accept others as you want to be accepted.

 

 

Also, since you have continued with the position that you are ministering to us on our website, you are in violation. Discussion of christianity is allowed; proselytizing is not. I'm torn between wanting to ban you and wanting others to see the resulting insanity of your prolonged willful delusions. But not on our dime. You've already given us enough material to work with, so I think you should either start monetarily contributing to this website and pay for the waste of bandwidth you're using as your pulpit -- or be gone. Create your own website, pay for it, and preach to your heart's content.

[DesertBob]

But turning away or cutting him out of your life won't solve anything...

I should add that there is a time and place for people to be excluded from your life. The problem is that people tend to arrive at that Rubicon way too quickly, because it can be an easy out to avoid the need to stand firm within yourself, to make the effort to have clear boundaries, to know who you are and what you want, to avoid the need to do the right thing even when there's seemingly little in it for you, etc. You don't give up on others, particularly those closest to you, without first doing ALL the hard work that love and loyalty and respect demands of you. You have a responsibility, particularly to your parents, your children, and your life partner.

 

Justyna is nowhere near this place with her father and she is nowhere near blameless for the situation.

 

I have a prickly relationship with my own daughter, and the easy thing for me would be to shut her out of my life because she causes me a lot of hurt. But I would never disown her or ignore her. I might call her on her BS and I might hold firm on not letting her get away with it and as a result she might elect not to interact with me. But my door would always be open to appropriate, respectful contact from her. Always.

 

I know of a Dad who has disowned all three of his children, even though they have behaved in an exemplary fashion towards him. He is emotionally closed off, and in thrall to the shrewish, jealous, gold-digging woman he married later in life, and chooses to keep the peace in his marriage and with his wife's extended family at the expense of contact with his own flesh and blood, including four delightful grandchildren. Two of his children have made it mutual -- bugger off, Dad, have a great life, we're outta here. And I can't say I blame them. He's been very hurtful.

 

But one of his kids has stopped short of that. She's considering it, especially since by now it makes no practical difference in their shattered relationship, and having even the possibility of dealing with him in the future off her plate would be a relief. It's definitely a toxic situation. Yet, admirably I think, she separates the core of the man, who has many admirable qualities, from his frailties and mistakes, and she isn't sure she should't leave the door open a crack. Even now, she wants nothing more than just to be there for her Daddy, to thank him and protect him and love him as any adult daughter should long to. (Notice I didn't say she wants her Daddy to do something for HER). I think we should approach turning our back on any close relationship with similar care. Certainly if there is immediate danger from overt abuse, we have to act quickly, but most situations are more a matter of identifying and refusing to perpetuate unhealthy feedback loops. Doing this requires maturity, practice, enormous patience, deference, commitment, freedom from attachment to particular expectations, and willingness for personal growth.

 

Justyna seems to be a bit of a legend in her own mind. There's no justification for pretending she's not around, having someone else do the dirty work of even lying about that. There's no justification for proselytizing her father, for flinging youthful hubris at him. Every young person thinks their parents are lame fools and that they have screwed up and if they would just be as clever and wise and open minded and brave as their offspring, if they could just recognize that their children have leapfrogged way beyond them, instead of being obstinate, THEN the relationship would be as it should be.

 

Hogwash. Justyna is a spoiled child throwing a tantrum because her father is unimpressed with her spiritual visions and activities. She owes him a heartfelt and humble apology.

[VeryBerry]

P.S ... when somone is on my ignore list, they can still read my posts and come to know God through them.

 

 

 

 

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

 

With that attitude of yours, Justyna, If anything, you're doing just the opposite. Like I said before, your god (if s/he/it really existed) would be quite proud of you. NOT!

 

You need to grow up, be grateful for what your dad did for you and continues to do by reaching out to you, and accept others as you want to be accepted.

 

 

Also, since you have continued with the position that you are ministering to us on our website, you are in violation. Discussion of christianity is allowed; proselytizing is not. I'm torn between wanting to ban you and wanting others to see the resulting insanity of your prolonged willful delusions. But not on our dime. You've already given us enough material to work with, so I think you should either start monetarily contributing to this website and pay for the waste of bandwidth you're using as your pulpit -- or be gone. Create your own website, pay for it, and preach to your heart's content.

 

 

56 freaking pages of Justyna's rambling. Come on!

 

She keeps on regurgitating the same old excuses for her God because she thinks that she might be able to re-convert one person or two. I get it Justyna. I have beeen around radical Christians all my life. I have heard some of them say that they had been sent to minister to thousands for the purpose of winning one soul for Christ.

 

Justyna is not interested in understanding the reasons behind our deconversion, she sees us as lost souls. Perhaps she convinced herself that God has entrusted her with the task of ministering to 'satanists'-- I can't hep but assume that she thinks she is winning souls for Christ since God speaks to her often. We are the unfortunate ones who failed to hear the voice of God, but Justyna hears the audible voice of God.

 

Justyna, did God help you with your attraction to women? In your deconversion post, you stated that you were attracted to women and you had a relationship with a woman. Remember, according to the bible, homosexuality is an abomination to God.

[Vigile]

Discussion of christianity is allowed; proselytizing is not

 

You sure about that? IIRC, it is, but Dave warns those who do to expect harsh responses.

 

I'm torn between wanting to ban you and wanting others to see the resulting insanity of your prolonged willful delusions.

 

I figure there have been enough already and will be more like her to come. She's just repeating herself now using up board space.

[DesertBob]

She's just repeating herself now using up board space.

I think it's terribly instructive that she's reduced to this.

 

Besides, nothing is wasted. We're having substantive conversations on a variety of topics and whether Justyna acknowledges or listens to any of it is beside the point.

 

Also, never forget the value of these posts to lurkers. Generally, I respond to Justyna with the full knowledge that she's a willful brick wall, but I suspect there are a dozen Justynas following this who are more reachable.

 

Also, I think when you deal with people like this you're mostly planting seeds. You shouldn't expect it to bear fruit anytime soon. But it will sit there, waiting for the proper time.

[Guest Justyna]

I dont think we should talk about my father anymore...sicne no one knows him and what he put me through. You only speculate but dont know the truth. The truth is, he is a money person who wants me to be in business and to make a lot of money. Although I have capability to do so, I want to do ministry and do it for God. That is not going to make me a lot of money, but I dont care. Doing Gods work is more important than making money to me.

 

VerryBerry,

 

I was attracted to one woman. I didnt even have a relationship with her. I never even acted out on it..so technically its not even a sin. I told you she was a crutch I leaned on when I was going through the things I was going through and I felt far from God. When I came back to God, I realized all this and I never was attracted to her or another woman ever since. Also before that, I was never attracted to women either. Most people who are homosexual report being attracted to the same sex when they were young or even in their teens. I always liked guys. Last year I was desperate for some support since I felt far from God and my dad was treating me the way he was. I think I already covered this in this thread.

[RankStranger]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Yalta]

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

Okay, that's just rude.

[MagickMonkey]

I dont think we should talk about my father anymore...sicne no one knows him and what he put me through. You only speculate but dont know the truth. The truth is, he is a money person who wants me to be in business and to make a lot of money. Although I have capability to do so, I want to do ministry and do it for God. That is not going to make me a lot of money, but I dont care. Doing Gods work is more important than making money to me.

 

VerryBerry,

 

I was attracted to one woman. I didnt even have a relationship with her. I never even acted out on it..so technically its not even a sin. I told you she was a crutch I leaned on when I was going through the things I was going through and I felt far from God. When I came back to God, I realized all this and I never was attracted to her or another woman ever since. Also before that, I was never attracted to women either. Most people who are homosexual report being attracted to the same sex when they were young or even in their teens. I always liked guys. Last year I was desperate for some support since I felt far from God and my dad was treating me the way he was. I think I already covered this in this thread.

 

Hehehehe, one can make a lot of $$$ doing "God's work". Just ask Marjoe.

[bdp]

 

 

Also, I think when you deal with people like this you're mostly planting seeds.

 

I, for one, couldn't care any less about that. I'm here to live my own life, not influence/affect anyone else.