quicksand Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Two Questions for Christians... Consider the following. Often answered, when asked, a Christian will tell you that in heaven you will spend your time glorifying and praising god and then I often wonder, how is that any different then spending all your time praising and glorifying God on Earth? When a Christian says that they feel that God is with them all the time, again, how is that any different than being in heaven and feeling the same here on Earth? Conversely when asked about hell, the Christian will tell you that in hell you are without God. (So, God is not in all things and not omnipotent.) Yet, on Earth, we are told that we can be close to God by following the Bible and believing in Jesus, otherwise we are without God. What about a baby without any beliefs? Are they languoring hell? Remember, a belief in Jesus is necessary. Newborns, toddlers, do not have beliefs. Taking the argument at face value, it is safe to assume that in fact, newborns or toddlers, are presently in Hell. Am I in Hell, right now, because I do not belive in God/Jesus? Now here’s a kicker and an additional question. Can I be in Hell (the physical burning eternal part of it) and still believe in God and Jesus? What I would like from the Christian here is to harmonize these contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What I would like from the Christian here is to harmonize these contradictions. I know you aren't holding your breath, Quickster, since no matter how much rhetoric one uses in the attempt, no one will be able to harmonize those contradictions to your satisfaction, but I'm certain a few will try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 They will try, fail, skirt around the issue, place the blame anywhere but wher it belongs and basically go into a fit of self-delusion to maintain thier stupid fairy tales as truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Now here’s a kicker and an additional question. Can I be in Hell (the physical burning eternal part of it) and still believe in God and Jesus? Good questions QS. Yes, in Hell you can believe too. And not only that you can feel love and compassion too. One of Jesus' little stories prove that. I would say that someone that can feel love for his family, and wanting them salvation, and praying for their salvation from hell, while you're in pain and agony, that person deserves a much better place than Hell. But NO, that can't be done. Abraham actually show less compassion than the rich man. All jerks go to Heaven, and the loving people go to Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 I know you aren't holding your breath, Quickster, since no matter how much rhetoric one uses in the attempt, no one will be able to harmonize those contradictions to your satisfaction, but I'm certain a few will try. You know me to well Reach. I really don't expect them too... I just enjoy the show by pulling the right strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davej77nc Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Two Questions for Christians...Consider the following. Often answered, when asked, a Christian will tell you that in heaven you will spend your time glorifying and praising god and then I often wonder, how is that any different then spending all your time praising and glorifying God on Earth? When a Christian says that they feel that God is with them all the time, again, how is that any different than being in heaven and feeling the same here on Earth? Conversely when asked about hell, the Christian will tell you that in hell you are without God. (So, God is not in all things and not omnipotent.) Yet, on Earth, we are told that we can be close to God by following the Bible and believing in Jesus, otherwise we are without God. What about a baby without any beliefs? Are they languoring hell? Remember, a belief in Jesus is necessary. Newborns, toddlers, do not have beliefs. Taking the argument at face value, it is safe to assume that in fact, newborns or toddlers, are presently in Hell. Am I in Hell, right now, because I do not belive in God/Jesus? Now here’s a kicker and an additional question. Can I be in Hell (the physical burning eternal part of it) and still believe in God and Jesus? What I would like from the Christian here is to harmonize these contradictions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remember, God is just and is not going to condemn anyone who is not capable of making a choice against Him. God is not going to hold the lack of information against you. I think, if you end up in Hell, which I hope you won't, by then you will have a better understanding of who God is. I am sure when someone goes to prison, they let him/her know what they did wrong before sentencing them, so they don't wonder what just hit them out of nowhere God IS where you are as well, you just dont want to recognize him, so I am sure even if he is omnipotent and omnipresent, he is going to somehow figure out a way to make you feel that he is not with you. Personally, I think that God is more merciful and just than a lot of Christians believe. I know a lot of non-Christians who are the kindest people I have met, and I really don't think they will go some place as horrible as hell, just b/c they have not accepted Christ. But my opinions/thoughts don't count. It's what God will do is what matters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 Remember, God is just and is not going to condemn anyone who is not capable of making a choice against Him. God is not going to hold the lack of information against you. I think, if you end up in Hell, which I hope you won't, by then you will have a better understanding of who God is. I am sure when someone goes to prison, they let him/her know what they did wrong before sentencing them, so they don't wonder what just hit them out of nowhere God IS where you are as well, you just dont want to recognize him, so I am sure even if he is omnipotent and omnipresent, he is going to somehow figure out a way to make you feel that he is not with you. Personally, I think that God is more merciful and just than a lot of Christians believe. I know a lot of non-Christians who are the kindest people I have met, and I really don't think they will go some place as horrible as hell, just b/c they have not accepted Christ. But my opinions/thoughts don't count. It's what God will do is what matters... Hi Dave and nice try. You did not answer the questions laid before you but just offered soft and irrelevant information about God. Thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Personally, I think that God is more merciful and just than a lot of Christians believe. I know a lot of non-Christians who are the kindest people I have met, and I really don't think they will go some place as horrible as hell, just b/c they have not accepted Christ. But my opinions/thoughts don't count. It's what God will do is what matters... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow. You don't read the bible much, do you? It pretty much says that if you don't accept Jesus, you fry. No mulligans, no do-overs. JHVH will fix you but good - because he loves you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Remember, God is just and is not going to condemn anyone who is not capable of making a choice against Him. God is not going to hold the lack of information against you. I think, if you end up in Hell, which I hope you won't, by then you will have a better understanding of who God is. I am sure when someone goes to prison, they let him/her know what they did wrong before sentencing them, so they don't wonder what just hit them out of nowhere God IS where you are as well, you just dont want to recognize him, so I am sure even if he is omnipotent and omnipresent, he is going to somehow figure out a way to make you feel that he is not with you. Personally, I think that God is more merciful and just than a lot of Christians believe. I know a lot of non-Christians who are the kindest people I have met, and I really don't think they will go some place as horrible as hell, just b/c they have not accepted Christ. But my opinions/thoughts don't count. It's what God will do is what matters... Dave, do you realize that most of us don't even believe God even exists? That he is nothing more than a myth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davej77nc Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Dave, do you realize that most of us don't even believe God even exists? That he is nothing more than a myth? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. What is your story. See, I am not going to go into any more arguments about this, because if you have not felt God's hand in life, then it would be very fruitless. I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. I'm not sure I want to go into that anymore. I've done it 4-5 times already with Christians that visited, just like you, and they were rude, arrogant, ignorant, sly and manipulating, just to score some points, and never tried for one second to understand. Sorry. Your brothers in the Lord spoiled it. I don't trust you or any Christian that comes to this site anymore. 99% of them have been trolls, and you could be just one more. I'm not going to reveal any more personal stuff, since the Jesus and Holy Spirit filled people that come here have less love and compassion than my apostate friends. Sorry bud. What is your story. See, I am not going to go into any more arguments about this, because if you have not felt God's hand in life, then it would be very fruitless. I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. That's very interesting, but if I tell you that I was Christian for 30 years, will you tell me that the explanation to my deconversion was that I was not a True Christian? I want to know this up-front, before we even continue the discussion. --- edit --- And that discussion should be taken in another thread/topic, so we don't hijack this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. Then brew a pot of your favorite warm beverage, grab your favorite munchy, and read the anti-testimonies. Read as many of them as you can, because that is how you will find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. What is your story. See, I am not going to go into any more arguments about this, because if you have not felt God's hand in life, then it would be very fruitless. I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A number of us thought we had felt God's hand in our life. Of course, it was nothing more than self delusion. To say it wasn't would mean that you would have to agree that every other religous person can claim to have felt the hand of THIER god/gods in THIER life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Dave. Some of us began the realization that there was something wrong with this religion (yes religion. not relationship) by a personal revelation of sorts, after years of struggling with christianity. Then, after we had the courage to start looking into the matter, we found out all kinds of stuff that clinched the deal. Then, we found this place. And became whole once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hi Dave and nice try.Thanks for playing. Good one! Then, we found this place. And became whole once again. Awww, Mythra, I think maybe, you might wanna write a song about this or somethin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. What is your story. See, I am not going to go into any more arguments about this, because if you have not felt God's hand in life, then it would be very fruitless. I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. It probably all comes down to personal experience. And the continuing Puritan tradition of chronicalling events so that after the fact they can insert God's hand here ______ and claim personal experience. Not a very accurate way to go about things, but then, no one ever accused religion of being accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, ..... Man, I sure know that feelin'. Why, just the other day, I was on my way home from work when I looked down at the gas gauge in my car. The needle was below the EMPTY mark, I didn't have any money on me, and there wasn't a gas station to stop at along the way. I said a small, but sincere prayer asking God to make sure that I had enough gas to get all the way home and sure enough, the needle began to rise within three seconds after my prayer. He Is Risen, and so is my needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Two Questions for Christians... Consider the following. Often answered, when asked, a Christian will tell you that in heaven you will spend your time glorifying and praising god and then I often wonder, how is that any different then spending all your time praising and glorifying God on Earth? Yes you will be glorifying Him in Heaven. But in Heaven you will be in a different body, I do not know what form that will be, but definitely without any more carnal, flesh desires. Maybe no need to drink or eat or shit even. No need to be one better, racist, sexist, logical, find proof of Him, search for the meaning of life or whatever. No more pain or whatever. Just eternal happiness. Eeeerrr... Heaven! On earth, you get a little taste of Heaven but in your mortal human body and how it understands happiness. Heaven is eternal bliss. That's what I've been told anyway. When a Christian says that they feel that God is with them all the time, again, how is that any different than being in heaven and feeling the same here on Earth? Personally, I do not feel God is with me all the time. Sometimes when praying yes. Most times when praying with others yes. But all the time? Nahhh, I pray for it tho'. So no heaven for me on earth most times I'm afraid. Sometimes in church my mind is thinking about work (eeek!). Then sometimes I get work solutions while day dreaming thus, was that Him talking to me? Or myself? Hmmmm.... Conversely when asked about hell, the Christian will tell you that in hell you are without God. (So, God is not in all things and not omnipotent.)So? If you are without God, you won't believe in hell anyway. Like Christians, Buddhists also believe in many levels of Hell and Heaven and even realms of "other worlds". I think if I'm in hell, if I even think of God, I'll be adding more to my eternal suffering. What the hell, i had one chance and i screwed it. Yet, on Earth, we are told that we can be close to God by following the Bible and believing in Jesus, otherwise we are without God. The Bible, as we (you and I) have established is full of inconsistencies. Edited, modified conveniently by our ancestors. Some of it in there are God's words. But which part(s)? Jesus in me, and my faith, shall tell me... I pray. God, to me, is always here, sometimes closer, sometimes He's too busy (or heartless?) to entertain my petty prayers. What about a baby without any beliefs? Are they languoring hell? Remember, a belief in Jesus is necessary. Newborns, toddlers, do not have beliefs. Babies are filed as special category. They'll be judged when they are older to make the choice of accepting or rejecting Christ. What if they err.. expire before hearing the Word? I believe Jesus would lovingly welcome them to heaven. Taking the argument at face value, it is safe to assume that in fact, newborns or toddlers, are presently in Hell. Am I in Hell, right now, because I do not belive in God/Jesus? Of course you are not in hell. Just feels like it. You will only go to hell when He says so ~ at the time of your judgement (body death). Your soul then goes to Heaven or Hell. There you'll have a body waiting for you (ha ha). But i do not know what that "body" (as humans understand it) will really be. That is what has been speculated anyway. Roman C even thought of a holding area ~ purgatory i think. Here, your relatives pray for you to be cleansed so that you deserve to go higher up. All the above info is as much as i know, and like the Bible, could all be (logical? illogical?) information/imagination/speculation from what i have heard/learnt from religious sites and from my pastors and fellow more senior Cs. Now here’s a kicker and an additional question. Can I be in Hell (the physical burning eternal part of it) I don't think God's hell will be like what we humans imagine it. Not physical at all. Much worse!!! If you happen to visit Singapore ~ there's a theme park there depicting the Chinese version of hell. In the human's way of imagination, of course. Cutting off hands for stealing. Boiling in oil, etc. But i think God's hell is beyond my imagination. and still believe in God and Jesus? You'll certainly be having too much fun rather than thinking of Him. Hey, you've already made it to hell, he can't send you to another more hellish hell can He? But some people believe there are many levels of hell and heaven. What I would like from the Christian here is to harmonize these contradictions. Beyond my powers and poor knowledge. I know so little. The Bible is ummmm.... I have to rely on God. Sometimes His reception is ummm... a tad frosty. So... apologies. I wish and pray you have a day like Heaven on earth today and as many other days as possible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Eternity in heaven...always happy...kissing god's ass. Real fun. Wonder why all the other angel's rebeled with Lucifer? We know his story...maybe the others were bored as fuck over kissing god's ass and wanted some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Of course you are not in hell. Just feels like it. You will only go to hell when He says so ~ at the time of your judgement (body death). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Terrorism. Attempting to attain goals that are religious or ideological in nature, through the use of coercion, fear, or intimidation. Give it up pugly. Your methods here have got you looking like a silly flounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Terrorism. Attempting to attain goals that are religious or ideological in nature, through the use of coercion, fear, or intimidation. Give it up pugly. Your methods here have got you looking like a silly flounder. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, you've been there, done that, what's there to be terrified of silly? I'm just regurgitating what I've been intimidated with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. What is your story. Then brew a pot of your favorite warm beverage, grab your favorite munchy, and read the anti-testimonies. Read as many of them as you can, because that is how you will find out. Amethyst, are you simply amazed at the number of Christians who come onto this site and start posting their comments and questions before they have read anything here at all? Sheesh!!! It's downright insulting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think they don't really WANT to know. They just want to assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think they don't really WANT to know. They just want to assume. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one, Vix. I think that the majority of them honestly don't want to know. They spit out their comments and they are as heartfelt and sincere as the cashier who says, "Have a nice daaaaay!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Amethyst, are you simply amazed at the number of Christians who come onto this site and start posting their comments and questions before they have read anything here at all? Sheesh!!! It's downright insulting! That's what I feel too. I feel that I've been insulted by several visiting x-ians lately. And they start with assumptions about why and how we lost our faith, and there's no way to explain to them so they understand, just because they won't let go of their faulty pressumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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