Reach Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I feel that I've been insulted by several visiting x-ians lately. And they start with assumptions about why and how we lost our faith, and there's no way to explain to them so they understand, just because they won't let go of their faulty pressumptions. Most of all, I am insulted by fundy male Christians who think they are superior to 1.) all of us and 2.) women specifically. They are the most insulting of all and they refuse to open up their eyes and see what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think they don't really WANT to know. They just want to assume. Exactly. It's the same with several of them, these are their assumptions: 1. We deconverted because we wanted to sin 2. We deconverted because we gave up 3. We deconverted because we never were True Christians 4. Currently we do believe, but we reject God because of our evil and sin How would it sound if we turned the plate and played the music to christians instead? 1. You converted because you wanted to sin and then ask God for forgivness every time (cheap way out of guilt) 2. You converted because people were brainwashing you, and you gave up 3. You were never a True Atheist (or Agnostic, Buddhist, ...) 4. Currently you are in doubt and don't believe in God, but you reject logic and reason because you have an evil, egotistic urge to convince people around you that you're not insane. I think it is interesting that the argument that I was not a True Christian before, but now somehow I do believe but reject God because of my evil, does this mean that while I was Christian I was not a true believer, but now when I'm an apostate I am a true believer? It just doesn't make sense!!! Does this mean I'm a Christian now, but in sin, but before as a Christian I was not a Christian because then I didn't believe?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 They would be right in saying we gave up. How many years of silence and unanswered prayers do you need before you recognize the futility of it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Most of all, I am insulted by fundy male Christians who think they are superior to 1.) all of us and 2.) women specifically. They are the most insulting of all and they refuse to open up their eyes and see what they are doing. True. Unfortunately, since I'm male, it's hard to feel and completely understand the emotions that you're going through when this is happening. You have my empathy as far as it can take me. Basically you girls are getting the double-whammy every time, and it's not right. Actually this is a subject that also show how cultures can be so totally different. Since I'm from Sweden which has gone much farther with sexual equality, I don't have the same attitude about women as many guys have here in USA. I do agree to that women are hard to understand sometimes , but they have the same rights and the same value in every aspect of life. About these visiting trolls: I just can't understand that we get this visitors here, and they claim "I'm hear to listen, learn and understand you", while their behavior screams "I'm here to tell, assume and convince you!" Why can't they be honest about what they say? Is it the father of lies that compels them? Can't they be truthful about their faith and intentions? Is their faith so weak that they have to resort to cheap methods? Shouldn't Christians be held to a higher standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I was an atheist myself Why were you an atheist Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Why were you an atheist Dave? I seriously doubt that he was a true atheist. At the best a weak atheist. More likely a deist or agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRC Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes you will be glorifying Him in Heaven. But in Heaven you will be in a different body, I do not know what form that will be, but definitely without any more carnal, flesh desires. Maybe no need to drink or eat or shit even. No need to be one better, racist, sexist, logical, find proof of Him, search for the meaning of life or whatever. No more pain or whatever. Just eternal happiness. Eeeerrr... Heaven! No more carnal flesh desires? No sex drive? No eating? No drinking? No shitting? COUNT ME OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExRC Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 And I am here to find out how have you people come to that I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting. Things have happened (or not happened) in my life that have brought me to the conclusion that God most likely does NOT exist. I guess you're one of the lucky ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 . . . I think it is interesting that the argument that I was not a True Christian before, but now somehow I do believe but reject God because of my evil, does this mean that while I was Christian I was not a true believer, but now when I'm an apostate I am a true believer? It just doesn't make sense!!! Does this mean I'm a Christian now, but in sin, but before as a Christian I was not a Christian because then I didn't believe?!?!?! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uh, good point. And you say English isn't your first language-- yeah right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I seriously doubt that he was a true atheist.At the best a weak atheist. More likely a deist or agnostic. That's what I hoped to uncover. I would say he was likely closer to an apathyst. He never gave it much thought until he attended a Billy Graham crusade (or whatever) and "felt" the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Uh, good point. And you say English isn't your first language-- yeah right... I read my comment again, and I hope it makes sense. It's not really a complicated thought, but a bit tricky to explain. It is a valid question. Was I an atheist as a Christian, and now I'm a believer while I'm atheist? I need a Christian to give me a straight answer, and I'm sure they will take either side and argue against the other. Just because the Bible supports this paradox, and no one knows which foot to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I read my comment again, and I hope it makes sense. It's not really a complicated thought, but a bit tricky to explain. It is a valid question. Was I an atheist as a Christian, and now I'm a believer while I'm atheist? I need a Christian to give me a straight answer, and I'm sure they will take either side and argue against the other. Just because the Bible supports this paradox, and no one knows which foot to stand on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Han ol' buddy. I understood it PERFECTLY!! It makes sense and really is a good point. I was just teasing you a bit becuase of the way it came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 No, Han ol' buddy. I understood it PERFECTLY!! It makes sense and really is a good point. I was just teasing you a bit becuase of the way it came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davej77nc Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hi Dave. Some of us began the realization that there was something wrong with this religion (yes religion. not relationship) by a personal revelation of sorts, after years of struggling with christianity. Then, after we had the courage to start looking into the matter, we found out all kinds of stuff that clinched the deal. Then, we found this place. And became whole once again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When you mention struggling, can you be more specific. In what ways have you struggled with Christianity? Have you struggled with what the Church taught you, What the bible teaches?...can you elaborate on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomguarder Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Howdy Dave, Check out the testimony page for more info as to why various members left xtianity. You may find them enlightening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davej77nc Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Man, I sure know that feelin'. Why, just the other day, I was on my way home from work when I looked down at the gas gauge in my car. The needle was below the EMPTY mark, I didn't have any money on me, and there wasn't a gas station to stop at along the way. I said a small, but sincere prayer asking God to make sure that I had enough gas to get all the way home and sure enough, the needle began to rise within three seconds after my prayer. He Is Risen, and so is my needle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is funny! God is not going to violate all physical laws and fill up the tank magically if you forget to fill it up. I hope you are not angry with him, just because he did not prove himself to you while you were driving down the highway and you were just about to run out of gas.... Well, i forgot to change the oil in my car for a long time and i had to pay 2,000 dollars to repair the engine. Maybe I should start saying that if God really cared for me, he would have communicated to me that I really need to change the oil.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Yes I have. And I am here to find out how have you people come to that realization. What is your story. See, I am not going to go into any more arguments about this, because if you have not felt God's hand in life, then it would be very fruitless. I was an atheist myself, but things happened in my life and in my friends' and relatives' lives that led me to believe in God, and I can tell you about that, but I doubt you would be interested in hearing them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you're actually curious, read the archives, especially the Testimonies. It's all down there in black and white. I've actually gone into some pretty gruesome detail, though most of it is scattered around. If you're just here to Stand In Judgment, Defend Your Faith, Convert The Heathen or otherwise toss stones, however...you'll get roasted for it. So far...you've been doing a whole lot of stone-tossing and almost no attempts at understanding us. That makes it look like you're lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think they don't really WANT to know. They just want to assume. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To quote a million Catholic grannies: "Bingo!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davej77nc Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 They would be right in saying we gave up. How many years of silence and unanswered prayers do you need before you recognize the futility of it all? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand you being frustrated but you can't base your faith about your life experiences. Christianity is about yielding your life and trusting the God. It's not just about going to Church and praying and then seeing what happens, and if the prayers go unanswered, automatically assuming that it's all futile, so we might as well just forget him. To conclude that God does not care about you based on not having your prayers answered is wrong. Remember, he is not your physical daddy who will take you and buy you toys every time you cry... Try to allign your prayers with His will, maybe he will start answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Most of all, I am insulted by fundy male Christians who think they are superior to 1.) all of us and 2.) women specifically. They are the most insulting of all and they refuse to open up their eyes and see what they are doing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...I could make a "Loyal Citizen: Republic of Gilead" icon for those clowns, if you'd like. I swear, though, did you notice how the only Christians who bothered responding to my headship thread were male? Of course they're going to "defend" headship--they benefit from it! Wel'Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 They would be right in saying we gave up. How many years of silence and unanswered prayers do you need before you recognize the futility of it all? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Twenty, in my case. But I'm the loyal type. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 That is funny! God is not going to violate all physical laws and fill up the tank magically if you forget to fill it up. I hope you are not angry with him, just because he did not prove himself to you while you were driving down the highway and you were just about to run out of gas.... Well, i forgot to change the oil in my car for a long time and i had to pay 2,000 dollars to repair the engine. Maybe I should start saying that if God really cared for me, he would have communicated to me that I really need to change the oil.... He seems to enjoy violating all physical laws all the time, so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I understand you being frustrated but you can't base your faith about your life experiences. Christianity is about yielding your life and trusting the God. It's not just about going to Church and praying and then seeing what happens, and if the prayers go unanswered, automatically assuming that it's all futile, so we might as well just forget him. To conclude that God does not care about you based on not having your prayers answered is wrong. Remember, he is not your physical daddy who will take you and buy you toys every time you cry... Try to allign your prayers with His will, maybe he will start answering. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To conclude that Allah doesn't care about you just becuase..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I understand you being frustrated but you can't base your faith about your life experiences. Christianity is about yielding your life and trusting the God. Trusting what to him? Your life? Your family's life? Your safety? What do we give to him to trust him do? Trust is usually earned, and not given lightly. Since God acts randomly, there's nothing to trust but random events. You're basically saying that the player going to Las Vegas, should trust the dice to come out the best way for him. If they come out bad, just keep on playing, because after 4 billion rolls, then suddenly you win. It's not just about going to Church and praying and then seeing what happens, and if the prayers go unanswered, automatically assuming that it's all futile, so we might as well just forget him. It is when you pray for something that supposedly only God can give, and that he gives freely when you ask for it. So if he still doesn't when you pray, then the Bible is incorrect. You can always still believe in a higher power, but there's no need for a Bible. To conclude that God does not care about you based on not having your prayers answered is wrong. Remember, he is not your physical daddy who will take you and buy you toys every time you cry... Try to allign your prayers with His will, maybe he will start answering. You see you're making excuses for God, and you hold God to a lesser standard and lower moral requirements than you do for yourself, or even for people around you. If someone kill a bunch of kids because he wants to further his cause, we would consider him immoral and deserves a punishment. If God kills a bunch of kids, because he's protecting the savior, then we're supposed to accept it and call it good and moral, only because God did it, not because it was right or wrong. In a justice system we expect that the law requires the judge and the police to be mandated under the same provisions and law that the regular citizen falls under. We don't approve the judge or police to randomly kill at their own will, it has to be proven and tested, the same way as for any member of society. The judicial system also distinguish the difference between killing with intent or accidental killing. Called murder or manslaughter. The Bible clearly shows that God always do intentional killings and not accidental. People don't drop dead because it just so happened, but because God wanted to punish or improve his own status in the state. This would be condemned if any human would do it. Yet God demands us to follow his law, demand us to praise and worship him or we're going to burn in hell. We would call God a despot and dictator. And another side to the story is that since God demands worship, it proves an egotistic need on his side to be glorified, which he wouldn't need if he was complete and perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 That is funny! God is not going to violate all physical laws and fill up the tank magically if you forget to fill it up. I hope you are not angry with him, just because he did not prove himself to you while you were driving down the highway and you were just about to run out of gas.... Funny. Didn't you say we should trust him? He can't do anything, but we should trust him? For what? That our life comes out good in the end? But he can't make it good or bad, because he can't violate physical laws. Well, i forgot to change the oil in my car for a long time and i had to pay 2,000 dollars to repair the engine. Maybe I should start saying that if God really cared for me, he would have communicated to me that I really need to change the oil.... Oh, and God can't tell you what is good for you or not, but you still should trust him? For what? Trust him that you go to heaven? That's it? And it's the reward from trusting him? So we go to heaven, because we trust that we go to heaven. If we don't trust we go to heaven, we will not go to heaven. Why do we need to "trust" God or even believe in God to be saved? I treat my kids more fair than that! I never have asked my kids to bow down and praise me, or else they will be removed from my will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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