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Goodbye Jesus

I Repent


Guest Perfect Insanity

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I was talking to a Christian the other day, and he basically received a "word from the Lord" for me.

 

"My lovely son. I will not leave you or forsake you. You are saying you have left me, but you have never left me. Your heart belongs to me. "

 

Ummmmm, okay.

 

1. If some random guy I'd never met before came up to me out of the blue and blurted that out at me, I'd probably shit my pants. Especially since I came out of bat-shit Pentecostalism where people were getting goofy "words from the Lord" all the freaking time.

 

I would then try to rationalize it by investigating the possibility that somebody I used to know paid this guy off to come and fuck with me and make me think it was a genuine prophet, so that I would be scared back to the Lord. Either that or I had somehow wound up with a crazy Christian stalker who'd been snooping on my shit. Because the only other explanation is that PentecostalGod is real and that would not be good.

 

2. If it was some guy I knew, who knew what my deal was, and after knowing my story he said that, I'd just smirk it off. "Yeah, that's convenient. Asshole."

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Guest Perfect Insanity

Reading other books doesn't mean you have to blindly accept them as fact. That's what got you into this shit with the bible.

 

Go to the library and borrow a few books. Hide the damn things in your bag so your parents don't find them. You don't have to buy books.

 

You are 'no scientist'. Well, neither am I. I just took the time to get a really basic understanding of some basic science (LITTLE KID PRIMARY SCHOOL SCIENCE) and that helped me understand a lot. Go to the library and get out a kids science encyclopedia and read the damn thing. That's the kind of reading I did to start off with when I was trying to learn about science.

 

For you, it's a choice between all or nothing. YOu either believe something totally or you freak out because you don't trust it. If you started reading some of this stuff, you'd eventually realise for yourself what you can and can't believe. Reading some alternative books about the supernatural, that aren't written to support theories like aliens creating stonehenge and the existence of ghosts, but actual real researched books, will help you get perspective.

Go tu youtube and check out some James Randi films. He is a fromer magician who has made a career out of debunking the supernatural.

 

Having books in my possession isn't an issue. I don't care what anyone thinks about it. I'll read whatever the fuck I want. If people have a problem with it, whatever.

 

Who cares, get help and stop bitching, you wanna change? First step is getting help, I don't wanna see anymore shit from you until you do.

 

Don't tell me what to do. I have just as much of a right to be here as you do. I'll rant if I feel like it. If you have a problem with that, get over it. Either that or don't read my posts.

 

I was talking to a Christian the other day, and he basically received a "word from the Lord" for me.

 

"My lovely son. I will not leave you or forsake you. You are saying you have left me, but you have never left me. Your heart belongs to me. "

 

Ummmmm, okay.

 

1. If some random guy I'd never met before came up to me out of the blue and blurted that out at me, I'd probably shit my pants. Especially since I came out of bat-shit Pentecostalism where people were getting goofy "words from the Lord" all the freaking time.

 

I would then try to rationalize it by investigating the possibility that somebody I used to know paid this guy off to come and fuck with me and make me think it was a genuine prophet, so that I would be scared back to the Lord. Either that or I had somehow wound up with a crazy Christian stalker who'd been snooping on my shit. Because the only other explanation is that PentecostalGod is real and that would not be good.

 

2. If it was some guy I knew, who knew what my deal was, and after knowing my story he said that, I'd just smirk it off. "Yeah, that's convenient. Asshole."

 

This is the one and only time anyone has ever claimed to have a "word from the Lord" for me. Whether it really is or not, I really don't care anymore.

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Guest Valk0010

I think your problem is, part of you still wants to believe. Because, everyone here has throw the book at you on various reasons to disbelieve, many of them you have considered and many you have not. But I think, also apart of your problem, is you want to know everything. Well guess what your going to have to take that risk, that later down the road, something might convince you Christianity is true.

 

You also can't have it both ways, you can't recognize many of the reasons you have recognized for disbelief and still logically need to worry about things like personal experience. If the stuff you recognize as good reasons for disbelief are true, then your going to have to reinterpret things like personal experience into a way that works with your views, which would be naturalistic in nature. Also, between me and others you have seen various reasons to think that natural explanations for religious experience. Apply those concepts to things as you find them.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

I think your problem is, part of you still wants to believe. Because, everyone here has throw the book at you on various reasons to disbelieve, many of them you have considered and many you have not. But I think, also apart of your problem, is you want to know everything. Well guess what your going to have to take that risk, that later down the road, something might convince you Christianity is true.

 

You also can't have it both ways, you can't recognize many of the reasons you have recognized for disbelief and still logically need to worry about things like personal experience. If the stuff you recognize as good reasons for disbelief are true, then your going to have to reinterpret things like personal experience into a way that works with your views, which would be naturalistic in nature. Also, between me and others you have seen various reasons to think that natural explanations for religious experience. Apply those concepts to things as you find them.

 

If I truly wanted to believe, I probably wouldn't be able to. My doubts would overcome. Since I do not want to believe, I'm partially unable to stop believing. That's how my mind works. Against me.

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Back on topic, I'm nowhere near where I should have been by now, but I think I'm making some small steps.

 

There is no should. You are where you are.

 

I was in a real spin for many months with fears and some obsessive thinking, and I'm out of it now. Part of it was that a conflict with another person that was causing me a lot of pain was resolved. A physical ailment was healed through me trying a different treatment; I didn't realize how much chronic pain was effecting me until it was gone. Finally, some friends hit a bad spot and I spent a week in overdrive cooking meals every day--giving of myself to others, feeling needed and useful. I came out the other side feeling like me old self. It was unexpected and relieving; I thought I was stuck in that state forever.

 

I hope you keep trying different things that are self-supportive and healing, too, and continue to reach out for good outside support.

 

Phanta

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Guest Perfect Insanity
Back on topic, I'm nowhere near where I should have been by now, but I think I'm making some small steps.

 

There is no should. You are where you are.

 

I was in a real spin for many months with fears and some obsessive thinking, and I'm out of it now. Part of it was that a conflict with another person that was causing me a lot of pain was resolved. A physical ailment was healed through me trying a different treatment; I didn't realize how much chronic pain was effecting me until it was gone. Finally, some friends hit a bad spot and I spent a week in overdrive cooking meals every day--giving of myself to others, feeling needed and useful. I came out the other side feeling like me old self. It was unexpected and relieving; I thought I was stuck in that state forever.

 

I hope you keep trying different things that are self-supportive and healing, too, and continue to reach out for good outside support.

 

Phanta

 

Believe me, what I said is true. I'm so much further behind than I ought to be. So many things I should have done, I didn't. So many things I shouldn't have done, I did. If I couldn't feel how much I passionately hate this state of mind, I would almost think that I enjoy inflicting it upon myself.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

I've probably lost any of the trust or respect that I might have had here, but hear me out. I want help, and I seek it. But I'm 90% sure that the answer is not found in any counseling or psychiatry. I don't believe that's the answer. For one thing, I don't trust them enough to give them all the details. I don't think I trust anyone enough. There are things involved that I've never even talked about. Another thing, they can't truly help unless they know EVERYTHING. And I do mean everything. If they get bits and pieces, but miss other small important details, it would all be in vain, because I might end up worse than I was in the beginning. I absolutely fail at discussing these problems in person. I'm so confused about myself, I have so many questions, insecurities, so much anger towards myself, and so much else, all piled up into one massive pile, I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to say. Picture this, I'm meeting with someone I don't even know, sitting down to talk to him about the darkest, most personal things in my life, under a time limit, and he asks me to start talking. What the hell am I supposed to say? I don't have a clue. I go blank. Even people that are close to me, when they ask me what's wrong, I just say "nothing." That's a big fucking lie, but I don't know what else to say. Some things are better left unsaid. I want to resolve this, but I don't know how. I know I've come across like an ass, especially recently. I know I act angry and unstable. Well, I am. And I apologize for that. But what I've said in this post is the truth.

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Believe me, what I said is true. I'm so much further behind than I ought to be. So many things I should have done, I didn't. So many things I shouldn't have done, I did. If I couldn't feel how much I passionately hate this state of mind, I would almost think that I enjoy inflicting it upon myself.

 

I believe differently. You are where you are, and it is exactly the correct place to be. Why? Because you can't be anywhere else right now. You just can't. I'm hearing that, if you could, you would be somewhere else right now. But you can't. You have to be right exactly where you are right now. And so it is the right place to be.

 

Fighting the present, invalidating current reality, struggling against what is true now, all of that is focus, attention, emotion, and energy spent uselessly. It isn't helpful to changing the future.

 

Phanta

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I've probably lost any of the trust or respect that I might have had here, but hear me out. I want help, and I seek it. But I'm 90% sure that the answer is not found in any counseling or psychiatry. I don't believe that's the answer. For one thing, I don't trust them enough to give them all the details. I don't think I trust anyone enough. There are things involved that I've never even talked about. Another thing, they can't truly help unless they know EVERYTHING. And I do mean everything. If they get bits and pieces, but miss other small important details, it would all be in vain, because I might end up worse than I was in the beginning. I absolutely fail at discussing these problems in person. I'm so confused about myself, I have so many questions, insecurities, so much anger towards myself, and so much else, all piled up into one massive pile, I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to say. Picture this, I'm meeting with someone I don't even know, sitting down to talk to him about the darkest, most personal things in my life, under a time limit, and he asks me to start talking. What the hell am I supposed to say? I don't have a clue. I go blank. Even people that are close to me, when they ask me what's wrong, I just say "nothing." That's a big fucking lie, but I don't know what else to say. Some things are better left unsaid. I want to resolve this, but I don't know how. I know I've come across like an ass, especially recently. I know I act angry and unstable. Well, I am. And I apologize for that. But what I've said in this post is the truth.

 

Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

That sounds like a good idea.

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Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

That sounds like a good idea.

 

I hope it helps you if you decide to give it a try. If you don't intend to show it to anyone, be careful to keep it private. Keep any paper copies in a secure area, don't throw waste copies in your trash can (shred or safely burn them), and don't write it on a computer that others have access to. But most importantly, you absolutely must be completely honest with yourself. Don't hold anything back. Let it all hang out, as we used to say (I'm not sure if that expression is still used).

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Guest Perfect Insanity

Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

That sounds like a good idea.

 

I hope it helps you if you decide to give it a try. If you don't intend to show it to anyone, be careful to keep it private. Keep any paper copies in a secure area, don't throw waste copies in your trash can (shred or safely burn them), and don't write it on a computer that others have access to. But most importantly, you absolutely must be completely honest with yourself. Don't hold anything back. Let it all hang out, as we used to say (I'm not sure if that expression is still used).

 

I generally burn anything even remotely personal I write. This one I'll make sure of. I hope this helps, because I have my doubts already. Unless I show it to someone (what would be the point of that?), all it would be doing is telling myself things I already know. I'm going to do it, but.... I'm not very optimistic about it.

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Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

That sounds like a good idea.

 

I hope it helps you if you decide to give it a try. If you don't intend to show it to anyone, be careful to keep it private. Keep any paper copies in a secure area, don't throw waste copies in your trash can (shred or safely burn them), and don't write it on a computer that others have access to. But most importantly, you absolutely must be completely honest with yourself. Don't hold anything back. Let it all hang out, as we used to say (I'm not sure if that expression is still used).

 

I generally burn anything even remotely personal I write. This one I'll make sure of. I hope this helps, because I have my doubts already. Unless I show it to someone (what would be the point of that?), all it would be doing is telling myself things I already know. I'm going to do it, but.... I'm not very optimistic about it.

 

Try to be sure that your pessimism does not have an anti-placebo effect.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

Why don't you try telling yourself these things you've "never even talked about?" I had some issues which I kept suppressed for years. I finally sat down alone and wrote them out as honestly as I was capable. I kept working on the drafts until I was satisfied that I had expressed myself adequately. It helped me a lot just to do that exercise. I never showed what I wrote to anyone, but just writing it out, honestly and forthrightly, was what I needed. Maybe it will help you, too.

 

That sounds like a good idea.

 

I hope it helps you if you decide to give it a try. If you don't intend to show it to anyone, be careful to keep it private. Keep any paper copies in a secure area, don't throw waste copies in your trash can (shred or safely burn them), and don't write it on a computer that others have access to. But most importantly, you absolutely must be completely honest with yourself. Don't hold anything back. Let it all hang out, as we used to say (I'm not sure if that expression is still used).

 

I generally burn anything even remotely personal I write. This one I'll make sure of. I hope this helps, because I have my doubts already. Unless I show it to someone (what would be the point of that?), all it would be doing is telling myself things I already know. I'm going to do it, but.... I'm not very optimistic about it.

 

Try to be sure that your pessimism does not have an anti-placebo effect.

 

It can do that at times.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

I'm beginning to think, what if all along I've gotten it totally wrong? What if my perceptions of God and interpretations of scripture are totally wrong? I now can see that one of my biggest problems with Christianity is that I do not see God as a loving father, but as something entirely different. When I first started out in my faith, I did see God as a loving father. But over time, that changed. Slowly. What if something happened? What if I got it completely wrong all along? What if I was deceived into believing in a false image of God? What if I got involved in nothing but legalism? What if I came to my senses? What if I discovered the truth about God, and he's a hateful pissed off monster who sets us up to fall and places the blame on us when we do? What if he's someone who allows a curse to fall on us because our ancestors ate a piece of fruit that was off limits (i.e. in the middle of the garden, totally unrestricted) and then sentences the entire human race to eternal punishment after they die because of that? What if he's someone who creates us with certain desires and makes us a certain way, yet deems us sinful for being the way we were created? Fuck it, I think I had it right all along. He really is the monster that I fear him to be. Oh well, so much for that glimmer of hope.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

Shit, if a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and God is the author of life, and he created beings who are capable of sin, how can God be perfect, holy, righteous, and uncapable of sin? How can he be unable to lie, when according to scripture he deceives some so that they cannot see the truth? How can he not be the author of confusion, when he confused the people who were building the tower of Babel and mixed up their languages? Why the hell can I not get this shit through my head?? It's obviously a fucked up lie! It has to be! Either that or this is just a sick twisted fucked up reality. WHY CAN'T I GET THAT THROUGH MY HEAD? Oh, right, because for some reason I subconciously dwell on stupid stories I've heard about the occult, demons, miracles, near death experiences, testimonies, and all sorts of hearsay bullshit.

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I'm beginning to think, what if all along I've gotten it totally wrong? What if my perceptions of God and interpretations of scripture are totally wrong? I now can see that one of my biggest problems with Christianity is that I do not see God as a loving father, but as something entirely different. When I first started out in my faith, I did see God as a loving father. But over time, that changed. Slowly. What if something happened? What if I got it completely wrong all along? What if I was deceived into believing in a false image of God? What if I got involved in nothing but legalism? What if I came to my senses? What if I discovered the truth about God, and he's a hateful pissed off monster who sets us up to fall and places the blame on us when we do? What if he's someone who allows a curse to fall on us because our ancestors ate a piece of fruit that was off limits (i.e. in the middle of the garden, totally unrestricted) and then sentences the entire human race to eternal punishment after they die because of that? What if he's someone who creates us with certain desires and makes us a certain way, yet deems us sinful for being the way we were created? Fuck it, I think I had it right all along. He really is the monster that I fear him to be. Oh well, so much for that glimmer of hope.

My advice would be to get a good study Bible which contains actual sholarship, and some other books about the origin of Biblical traditions. When I started seriously questioning my faith, and was more interested in truth than whether my previous beliefs were correct, I purchased a New Oxford Annotated Bible. The notes in it have been very helpful in understanding the actual historical context of the Bible, and the motivations behind why things were written. This helps the literalistic gloss come off, and see it for the collection of very human writings it actually is. I would also personally recommend some books about the origin of Hebrew theology, such as The Early History of God and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism by Mark S. Smith. I don't have any specific literature to recommend regarding this, but it would also behoove you to research the evolution of afterlife concepts in Second Temple Judaism, which differ greatly from that in the Hebrew Bible. Once you can see that these religions underwent their own evolutionary process, which they attempt to cover up, it becomes easier to move on.

 

Also, I checked into therapy the moment I started developing serious doubts. (An actual therapist, not a "Christian counselor".) It has helped the processes of healing and creating my own identity and way of thinking greatly.

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Guest Perfect Insanity

I'm beginning to think, what if all along I've gotten it totally wrong? What if my perceptions of God and interpretations of scripture are totally wrong? I now can see that one of my biggest problems with Christianity is that I do not see God as a loving father, but as something entirely different. When I first started out in my faith, I did see God as a loving father. But over time, that changed. Slowly. What if something happened? What if I got it completely wrong all along? What if I was deceived into believing in a false image of God? What if I got involved in nothing but legalism? What if I came to my senses? What if I discovered the truth about God, and he's a hateful pissed off monster who sets us up to fall and places the blame on us when we do? What if he's someone who allows a curse to fall on us because our ancestors ate a piece of fruit that was off limits (i.e. in the middle of the garden, totally unrestricted) and then sentences the entire human race to eternal punishment after they die because of that? What if he's someone who creates us with certain desires and makes us a certain way, yet deems us sinful for being the way we were created? Fuck it, I think I had it right all along. He really is the monster that I fear him to be. Oh well, so much for that glimmer of hope.

My advice would be to get a good study Bible which contains actual sholarship, and some other books about the origin of Biblical traditions. When I started seriously questioning my faith, and was more interested in truth than whether my previous beliefs were correct, I purchased a New Oxford Annotated Bible. The notes in it have been very helpful in understanding the actual historical context of the Bible, and the motivations behind why things were written. This helps the literalistic gloss come off, and see it for the collection of very human writings it actually is. I would also personally recommend some books about the origin of Hebrew theology, such as The Early History of God and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism by Mark S. Smith. I don't have any specific literature to recommend regarding this, but it would also behoove you to research the evolution of afterlife concepts in Second Temple Judaism, which differ greatly from that in the Hebrew Bible. Once you can see that these religions underwent their own evolutionary process, which they attempt to cover up, it becomes easier to move on.

 

Also, I checked into therapy the moment I started developing serious doubts. (An actual therapist, not a "Christian counselor".) It has helped the processes of healing and creating my own identity and way of thinking greatly.

 

On the subject of study Bibles and things like that, I don't particularly care for them. They can teach a person how to read the Bible, which gives a bias when reading it. I prefer just the text, so I'm not led astray by other people's interpretations of it. I am going to start back reading the Bible, though. To see what I really think about it, particularly the Old Testament. Mainstream organized Churchianity is one thing. The Bible is something entirely different.

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I'm beginning to think, what if all along I've gotten it totally wrong? What if my perceptions of God and interpretations of scripture are totally wrong? I now can see that one of my biggest problems with Christianity is that I do not see God as a loving father, but as something entirely different. When I first started out in my faith, I did see God as a loving father. But over time, that changed. Slowly. What if something happened? What if I got it completely wrong all along? What if I was deceived into believing in a false image of God? What if I got involved in nothing but legalism? What if I came to my senses? What if I discovered the truth about God, and he's a hateful pissed off monster who sets us up to fall and places the blame on us when we do? What if he's someone who allows a curse to fall on us because our ancestors ate a piece of fruit that was off limits (i.e. in the middle of the garden, totally unrestricted) and then sentences the entire human race to eternal punishment after they die because of that? What if he's someone who creates us with certain desires and makes us a certain way, yet deems us sinful for being the way we were created? Fuck it, I think I had it right all along. He really is the monster that I fear him to be. Oh well, so much for that glimmer of hope.

If your right, your doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. A god like the one you described isn't trustworthy, so how could you take what the bible says seriously.

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I'm beginning to think, what if all along I've gotten it totally wrong? What if my perceptions of God and interpretations of scripture are totally wrong? I now can see that one of my biggest problems with Christianity is that I do not see God as a loving father, but as something entirely different. When I first started out in my faith, I did see God as a loving father. But over time, that changed. Slowly. What if something happened? What if I got it completely wrong all along? What if I was deceived into believing in a false image of God? What if I got involved in nothing but legalism? What if I came to my senses? What if I discovered the truth about God, and he's a hateful pissed off monster who sets us up to fall and places the blame on us when we do? What if he's someone who allows a curse to fall on us because our ancestors ate a piece of fruit that was off limits (i.e. in the middle of the garden, totally unrestricted) and then sentences the entire human race to eternal punishment after they die because of that? What if he's someone who creates us with certain desires and makes us a certain way, yet deems us sinful for being the way we were created? Fuck it, I think I had it right all along. He really is the monster that I fear him to be. Oh well, so much for that glimmer of hope.

My advice would be to get a good study Bible which contains actual sholarship, and some other books about the origin of Biblical traditions. When I started seriously questioning my faith, and was more interested in truth than whether my previous beliefs were correct, I purchased a New Oxford Annotated Bible. The notes in it have been very helpful in understanding the actual historical context of the Bible, and the motivations behind why things were written. This helps the literalistic gloss come off, and see it for the collection of very human writings it actually is. I would also personally recommend some books about the origin of Hebrew theology, such as The Early History of God and The Origins of Biblical Monotheism by Mark S. Smith. I don't have any specific literature to recommend regarding this, but it would also behoove you to research the evolution of afterlife concepts in Second Temple Judaism, which differ greatly from that in the Hebrew Bible. Once you can see that these religions underwent their own evolutionary process, which they attempt to cover up, it becomes easier to move on.

 

Also, I checked into therapy the moment I started developing serious doubts. (An actual therapist, not a "Christian counselor".) It has helped the processes of healing and creating my own identity and way of thinking greatly.

 

On the subject of study Bibles and things like that, I don't particularly care for them. They can teach a person how to read the Bible, which gives a bias when reading it. I prefer just the text, so I'm not led astray by other people's interpretations of it. I am going to start back reading the Bible, though. To see what I really think about it, particularly the Old Testament. Mainstream organized Churchianity is one thing. The Bible is something entirely different.

Actually there is alot more to that, particularly with history of the bible, kind of books. I would recommend you research a bit on it.

 

My favorite is the rejection of pascal's wager by paul tobin

 

Also, if you can look up messanic Judaism.(If you really can't deconvert ditching Paul would be a good thing)

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Guest Valk0010

I think your problem is, part of you still wants to believe. Because, everyone here has throw the book at you on various reasons to disbelieve, many of them you have considered and many you have not. But I think, also apart of your problem, is you want to know everything. Well guess what your going to have to take that risk, that later down the road, something might convince you Christianity is true.

 

You also can't have it both ways, you can't recognize many of the reasons you have recognized for disbelief and still logically need to worry about things like personal experience. If the stuff you recognize as good reasons for disbelief are true, then your going to have to reinterpret things like personal experience into a way that works with your views, which would be naturalistic in nature. Also, between me and others you have seen various reasons to think that natural explanations for religious experience. Apply those concepts to things as you find them.

 

If I truly wanted to believe, I probably wouldn't be able to. My doubts would overcome. Since I do not want to believe, I'm partially unable to stop believing. That's how my mind works. Against me.

If your mind works in opposites flow with the current, try to find some more liberal churches. Try to believe in a more sane view of it, then see what happens.

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If your right, your doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. A god like the one you described isn't trustworthy, so how could you take what the bible says seriously.

 

It's not so much that I think about being doomed, but more... something else. Feeling like I'm in denial maybe, I don't know.

 

Actually there is alot more to that, particularly with history of the bible, kind of books. I would recommend you research a bit on it.

 

My favorite is the rejection of pascal's wager by paul tobin

 

Also, if you can look up messanic Judaism.(If you really can't deconvert ditching Paul would be a good thing)

 

I thought messianic Judaism accepted Paul's writings? Besides that, why is it so important to ditch Paul?

 

If your mind works in opposites flow with the current, try to find some more liberal churches. Try to believe in a more sane view of it, then see what happens.

 

Liberal churches? Nah. I no longer believe in "church" as the modern world knows it. Christian or not, after I'm on my own, I doubt I'll have much to do with any "church" in the organized religious sense. Churches today are full of greedy hypocritical liars. The ones that aren't hypocritical usually preach a message of hate, and feed off of people's fear, inflicting a harsh legalistic brainfuck of a mindset.

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Guest Valk0010

While there is quite a bit of nutty in the gospels, Paul's writings has even more nutty.

 

Figure out what it is, you say its denial, but aren't sure, figure it out. But you didn't get my point, if your right, there is no point worry about it, because god could easily lie about heaven to, and you be going to hell. If god is not trustworthy, no point of worry about what it wants because you won't be able to truly figure out what it wants, thinks, creates, etc.

 

Also more liberal christian beliefs might work for you. Try it, might be, not your obvious seemingly rather gut instinct(hypocritical perception.)

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Guest Perfect Insanity

While there is quite a bit of nutty in the gospels, Paul's writings has even more nutty.

 

Figure out what it is, you say its denial, but aren't sure, figure it out. But you didn't get my point, if your right, there is no point worry about it, because god could easily lie about heaven to, and you be going to hell. If god is not trustworthy, no point of worry about what it wants because you won't be able to truly figure out what it wants.

 

I don't really see much of a difference between the teachings of Paul and Jesus, except for the fact that Jesus was more works oriented and Paul was all about faith.

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Guest Valk0010

 

Figure out what it is, you say its denial, but aren't sure, figure it out. But you didn't get my point, if your right, there is no point worry about it, because god could easily lie about heaven to, and you be going to hell. If god is not trustworthy, no point of worry about what it wants because you won't be able to truly figure out what it wants.

 

How about what you think about above.

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