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Goodbye Jesus

Catholic Church no longer swears


Fweethawt

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Call me a spammer if you want to, but I just posted this exact thread over in the 'Theological Issues' forum. I figured since more people hang out here in the debate section, that it would draw more attention. :shrug:

 

 

I pulled this article from the main page of the site.

 

As you read it, you will realize that even though

they are making this bold proclamation, they still

have a very long way to go. You'll see what

I mean once you get to the TRUE/UNTRUE section

 

Read on.

 

FROM HERE

 

Europe -

The Times

October 05, 2005

 

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

 

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

 

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

 

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

 

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

 

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

 

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

 

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analyzing ancient literature to the Bible.

 

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

 

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

 

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

 

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

 

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

 

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

 

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

 

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

 

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

 

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

 

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

 

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

 

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

 

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.”

 

BELIEVE IT OR NOT

 

UNTRUE

 

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

 

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

 

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

 

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

 

TRUE

 

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

 

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

 

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

 

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

 

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

 

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

 

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection

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Well, it's still a good step and one that I think will lead to a lot of people deconverting.

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Why do they even bother clinging to the rest? Funny how the years go by the Catholic church dumps more and more of thier religion.

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Well, it's still a good step and one that I think will lead to a lot of people deconverting.
Even if they don't deconvert, it'll at least make a lot of people stop and think about what they're saying and what they accept as "truth". Hopefully, they'll do much of this before pounding this stuff into their children's minds. :mellow:

 

So yeah, it's definitely a good step in the right direction. :woohoo:

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Why do they even bother clinging to the rest?  Funny how the years go by the Catholic church dumps more and more of thier religion.
I don't think dumping the whole religion is a very good idea. I mean, I'd like to think that everyone could live life without The Promise™, but there are a lot of people who actually need religion.

 

This might turn out to be a good way to determine which people need it, and which people just think they need it.

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very interesting! Gee, after all these years of insisting otherwise.

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:woohoo:Now, that is progress, Fwee! :woohoo:
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Just gonna go down the list here.

 

 

UNTRUE

 

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

 

:lmao: Well, I can certainly see why they wanted to get rid of that one. It must be downright embarrassing for some Christians to have creationists speaking before colleges, supposedly representing the faith but trying to pass this kind of shit off as scientifically valid.

 

 

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

 

:scratch: Hmm... I'd like to see how they determined this one to be false. As much as I applaud the Catholic Church for wanting to step forward, I can't help but wince a little when I see them taking stuff out for the sake of being politically correct.

 

 

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

 

:shrug: Same there here. I think the catholics are taking things out based on what makes them uncomfortable and not whether or not it's verifiable.

 

 

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

 

:grin: They might as well just throw the whole book of Revelation in the garbage while they're at it.

 

 

TRUE

 

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

 

ugh.gif Here is direct evidence that the Catholic Church is not using any methodology to determine what is true and what isn't. For some reason, they still think that Moses existed, and yet had they been consulting any credible archeologist, they would have found it extremely hard to place Moses anywhere in history.

 

 

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

 

:wicked: And God said, "I am Oli, You are Sven." And this really happened because there's nothing immediately controversial about it.

 

 

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

 

:HaHa: Does that include the completely different set of ten that he offers up later?

 

 

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

 

:bounce: Of course, the warm and fuzzy moments stay in.

 

 

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

 

:crazy: Ditto.

 

 

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

 

:Look: They'll reject that Eve came from Adam's rib, but they'll keep this? Yeah, I guess they kinda have to, but it shows what kind of reasoning they're using.

 

 

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection

 

:loser: I rest my case.

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Okay. Color me cynical, if you will, but...when did the Catholic Church EVER swear by the bible?!? As far as I can tell, they've ALWAYS taken a hit ot myth approach to ye olde "holy writ". Their going public this way is simply a public admission of what everyone knew about them already. So what's the big deal?

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They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

[/color]

 

This part is what gives me a lot of pause. Many rabid fundamentalists use the excuse that 'The Truth(hehe) can't be sugar coated and made appealing... it's simply the Gospel Truth.'

 

If they had outright said that 'This is simply the way it is, the truth, we were wrong earlier,' it would have done a lot more good. As it stands, it's just a minor footnote to most...

 

I may be asking for a glass of milk when I finally got my cookie, but I remember reading about the surrender Robert E. Lee drafted up, and the public announcement he sent to the troops still under his command. Both Grant and Lee took every possible pain to make sure there was no room for misinterpretation.

 

I see no reason not to hold the Vatican to the same standard. Unless I'm just mangling context again... :loser:

 

Merlin

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I don't think this is actually news. The Catholic church has never taught that the Bible is inerrant (except when it's convenient to murder heretics).

 

I think what is happening is that Bible study is finally becoming popular within the Catholic church, and so they decided they needed to remind the sheep that the church, rather than the Bible, is god's authority on earth.

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