Simple intro post

[specs appeal]

I'm sorry if this post is in the wrong forum; I wasn't quite sure where to place it.

 

I am a female university student from Canada, and I have been lurking here for a while. I don't think I've ever been so confused as I have been the past few months.

 

Here is a brief history. I was raised Christian, but at the age of twelve, I decided I was not a Christian (for some reason). Until I was about sixteen, I was rather quite hostile to Christianity and Christians. Eventually I softened my position, but I did not seriously consider converting until last year, when I began to attend church regularly for the first time since I was a child. So, I converted one year ago today... but it was only a short time before my doubts resurfaced... and I eventually drifted away.

 

Anyway, lately I'm quite confused and torn, and it is frustrating...

[Fweethawt]

Anyway, lately I'm quite confused and torn, and it is frustrating...

A lot of us know exactly how you feel, Specky.

 

Hopefully, in time, you'll eventually get to your "comfy place", like many of the members here have.

 

For some people, it takes a lot of time and patience.

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for.

[specs appeal]

A lot of us know exactly how you feel, Specky.

 

Hopefully, in time, you'll eventually get to your "comfy place", like many of the members here have.

 

For some people, it takes a lot of time and patience.

Welcome to the forum.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you.. thank you! I hope so too... It's not a fun feeling.

[Ouroboros]

Welcome S-A,

 

(Sin City is a good movie btw... your avatar...)

 

You just have to keep on studying. It's good that you're here, so you can ask questions and see it from our viewpoint, and the experiences that we've had.

 

You've just entered the Church of Apostates, where any faith or un-faith is welcome.

Where the pastor (Dave), maintain the plumming (website).

And the elders (mods) work as ushers.

And the real preachers, teachers and students are the members.

 

Hans

[Fweethawt]

Thank you.. thank you!

You're very welcome.

 

I hope so too... It's not a fun feeling.

No, it isn't.

 

That feeling that you're talking about had me up and down in bed for several days at a time and at different intervals. I feel pretty confident that I won't have to go through that again.

[Dianka]

Hey Spec,

 

I am curious ...

What exactly is holding you back from becoming a Christian? Does it have to do with the inconsistencies in the Bible, or maybe a nagging feeling that something isn't right?

 

I was raised Catholic, and we never studied the Bible, so until about 4 years ago I had no idea that there were any inconsistencies.

 

Instead, I had an overwhelming feeling that something is not right. Eventually I studied and became confused (the good book does that to people who actually try to read it). When I felt that there was too much evidence that contradicts religion I became an Atheist.

 

I suppose I always knew that religion is bunk, I just needed to rationalize WHY I knew it.

 

I don't mean to pressure you into believing as I do, but I hope that you really take a good look around this web site because the people here bring up so many interesting questions to ask yourself. If you can look around here and still feel a strong connection to God, then you have established a solid sense of faith.

 

Give it some time, I am sure you will come to some conclusion.

Welcome to the group!

[Ouroboros]

I was raised Catholic, and we never studied the Bible, so until about 4 years ago I had no idea that there were any inconsistencies.

How come that is so common amongst the Catholics? Almost every Catholic I meet have never read the Bible, why?

It's more common that a evangelican/protestant have done it, why won't Caths?

[MQTA]

How come that is so common amongst the Catholics? Almost every Catholic I meet have never read the Bible, why?

It's more common that a evangelican/protestant have done it, why won't Caths?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They have more to distract them? They're more into the physical pomp?

 

Are their services still mostly in Latin? Nobody gonna read that version!

[HadouKen24]

The Catholic church doesn't need regular reading of Scripture as much. It's based around Tradition just as much as around the Bible. After all, the usual Catholic point of view goes, it's the Church that compiled the Bible, not the Bible that created the Church. Protestants deny Tradition as such, and so must look only to the Bible as their justification. Which strikes me as odd (this i coming from a former Presbyterian), since you really can't have the Bible without a Tradition defining its contents and bounds.

 

Anyway, lately I'm quite confused and torn, and it is frustrating...

 

Specs, what helped me was just slowly thinking things through and eventually coming up with a label for myself. Once I was able to come up with a label, I had something concrete in my mind I could use to refer to all the conclusions I'd come to. It helped turn my free-floating thoughts into something more solid and grounded.

 

If you're curious what my label is, I call myself a panentheist with strong neo-Pagan influences.

 

So it doesn't have to be a pre-made label like atheist, agnostic, Wiccan, etc.

[Loren]

Welcome, specs appeal.

 

You might want to peruse the archives. In them there are quite a number of things of which almost no church would want you to be aware. Some of these documents go a long way toward explaining why doctrine and the various denominations are the way they are.

 

Enjoy the fora!

 

Loren

[♦ nivek ♦]

Hiya Specs!

 

Good place for the questionig mind to me hang and catch up wih the myriad questions...

 

ExC has a good full spectrum of folks that an help answer questions honestly and give insight and even hope for the mind freeing itself from religious shackles.

 

Best place to spend on.ass and on.line time on 'net.

 

Feel very Welcome Specs!

 

kevinL

[Vixentrox]

Religion breeds confusion for sure if you maintain a shred of free will and critical thinking. The good news is, you already on your way to not being confused. You are learning from your peers here and eventually you'll achieve a clarity that will set you free. Welcome to the site.

[Mythra]

Heya specs. I'm just the janitor's assistant in this church, but welcome anyway.

mythra

[specs appeal]

Thank you, everyone!

 

Loren, thank you for the link. I have read some stuff on the site a while ago, but there is a lot there. I added a button in Opera so I can click to that page again.

 

Vixentrox, thanks, I think/hope you are right!

 

nivek, yeah, I quite enjoy reading this board!

 

HadouKen24, indeed, I really have no label for myself at this time. :|

 

SurlyMermaid81, it's not clicking right now... not clicking.

 

I did know there are issues with the Bible, since I had read about them in the past. So there is that... some months ago I recorded my questions to a text file, but I think I deleted it. >_<

 

Beyond that general sense you described, some things don't make sense to me from a typical Christian perspective. Maybe they don't matter, but I have not found answers. Two examples: I've never seen it explained why exactly God would wait so very long to send Jesus. Why does Genesis 6 assert that God regretted creating humans and decided to destroy them, if he is omniscient and perfect? (If I knew an experiment would screw up, I wouldn't be inclined to do it anyway, and then get upset when it went wrong.)

 

Oh, heh, I took a course on world religions last year, and the professor is not a literalist, so he would say, "This is not Sunday school!"

 

Didn't help that I went to church this weekend and heard how Christians are so radically different from non-Christians and blah blah blah, well, I won't rant now, but in short: That was kind of a "wtf" moment for me. I don't think you can even detect whether someone is "spiritually dead" and besides... oh, I said I wouldn't rant. Nice to know what some people think of the "unsaved," though, like we are another species or something.

 

I think it is so frustrating because I don't want to make a wrong decision. (Well, not that anybody wants to do stupid things...) In December I wrote, "I'm afraid of going to Hell. Really. But on the other hand, I'm afraid of giving up so much of my life to something if it's not even true." For instance, I don't know what might have happened to my relationship with my non-Christian BF if I hadn't started doubting, because we were "unequally yoked". I don't want to break things off with my boyfriend (or watch our relationship slowly die) without a damn good reason! To think that I might have lost him over something I'm not sure is even true...

 

Even if I set aside my doubts, they would, I'm sure, come back once again. (In the meantime, how is one supposed to hear from God, anyway? Bibliomancy? In one's head? Fuzzy feelings? Strange events? How would I differentiate a divinely-relayed message from my random thoughts and impressions and mental images? Maybe my avatar is HOLY.)

 

I'm sorry I rambled so MUCH! I can feel it in my bones -- I have to get off this site! NOW!! That's just because I have class, though.

[Dianka]

Specs, I am at a loss, I don't know how to help you.

 

Maybe if you looked at your faith from a different angle. Maybe if you think about what your life may be like if you lived as a Christian for the rest of your life, and then compared it to what you think your life would be like without Christ.

 

Could looking into alternative faiths help?

 

For a while I looked into different faiths, especailly Buddhism. But in the end I realized that I simply do not believe in a higher power of any sort. The process of elimination brought me to Atheism because not only did I learn a few things about a few faiths, I also asked myself whether or not my own beliefs aligned with that of any faith.

 

Whatever you do, I think you need to look at what you believe AND read up on faith. Read up on every angle of faith. Including the science behind our necessity for faith. Any book that deals with the psychology behind the necessity for God may be helpful.

 

I only hope I don't add to your confusion.

[specs appeal]

It is all right. I can't see you adding to it. I'm probably my own worst enemy with my psychological issues anyway.

 

I will keep reading. I love to read.

 

I have thought soe about the divergent possibilities issue also. Probably better if I keep on this way... not always wondering/worrying if I'm complying with God's will or something...

 

(Sin City is a good movie btw... your avatar...)

 

All I can say is I enjoy this picture...

[Ouroboros]

All I can say is I enjoy this picture...   

You haven't seen the movie yet? Sin City is very unique.

The guy on the picture is really cool, and scary.

[specs appeal]

You haven't seen the movie yet? Sin City is very unique.

 

No...

but I know about Kevin

 

The guy on the picture is really cool, and scary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed!!!

[LloydDobler]

The Catholic church doesn't need regular reading of Scripture as much. It's based around Tradition just as much as around the Bible. After all, the usual Catholic point of view goes, it's the Church that compiled the Bible, not the Bible that created the Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We actually had a catholic on here for a while who had never read the bible, so we all started bashing on him as we often do...

 

He actually asserted that the catholic church started with Adam and Eve, and if the bible disagreed with catholic doctrine, the bible was in error.

 

We all had a good time arguing with that dude.

[Dianka]

Oh, come on now! The majority (I would say super-majority) of Catholics have no fuckin clue what their religion states, they just go to church. It is like being on auto-pilot. you watch your parents go to Mass, and you do the same thing.

 

From the very beginning, Mass was in Latin. Only after Vatican II did people really understand what was going on, but generations of Catholics have come and past, and now there is an ingrained detachment that comes naturally to Catholics.

 

Catholicism fascinates me, to be honest. Bloody past. Overwhelming secrecy. But also somewhat progressive, well, in religious terms. It's a freak car accident that you can't help but stare at.

 

Did you know that the Vatican has a vault of private parts from statues? Yeah, I guess some pope ordered the *censorship* of provocative Renaissance stautes. There was another pope who wrote seedy sex books. And another pope thought that Haley's comet was the work of th devil and excommunicated it! No shit people, this is all true.

[Guest ~@-@]

Interestingly enough, that's how our family operated. Me and my brother just went, instead of learning about the Bible. This is why I can say that I haven't read it myself, and I don't plan to unless I have to read up to defend my beliefs against someone and tell them all the inconsistencies in the Bible.

[Ouroboros]

Right now I'm reading about the history of Christianity, and in a sense, Catholicism is the True Christianity. And the protestants are heretics. The true way of interpreting the Bible is from the top of the Church and not on an individual basis. The freedom of person revelation is denied and not approved in any form.

 

What's even more curious is that every Christian (or the large majority) works the same way, even in the non Catholic Churches. Every denomination have their "leaders" and "elected preachers" that will tell the congregation how and what to believe, and how to interpret the Bible. So nothing has changed, they just have new names on the liturgy and dogma.

[Dianka]

Well, when my churchie boyfriend took my to his Christian church, there were a lot of people witnessing. It looked so disorganized to me. I thought, what the fuck is the point of church if all people are going to do is talk? No time for sermons and homilies.

 

I was told that most of the education came from Bible study and Sunday school.

 

Hmmm...

[Merlinfmct87]

Thank you, everyone! 

 

Loren, thank you for the link. I have read some stuff on the site a while ago, but there is a lot there. I added a button in Opera so I can click to that page again.

 

Vixentrox, thanks, I think/hope you are right!

 

nivek, yeah, I quite enjoy reading this board!

 

HadouKen24, indeed, I really have no label for myself at this time. :|

 

SurlyMermaid81, it's not clicking right now... not clicking.

 

If I may...

 

Don't look for a label, specs appeal. If you come across one that fits rather well, fine and dandy, but you won't be wandering amelessly through life searching for meaning if you don't have an appropriate tag for your beliefs/mindset on hand and ready to flip out.

 

You haven't been cataloged just yet... still in the unsorted pile. That's not necessairly bad... nor is it necessairly good. You have to figure out where you are on your own. Don't let anyone(no matter what) tell you what to think or believe. Your questions *will* give you answers.

 

Trust yourself. Truth is something humans naturally seek out. Trust that instinct, and don't let anyone else tell you how to be.

 

I did know there are issues with the Bible, since I had read about them in the past. So there is that... some months ago I recorded my questions to a text file, but I think I deleted it. >_<

 

Beyond that general sense you described, some things don't make sense to me from a typical Christian perspective. Maybe they don't matter, but I have not found answers. Two examples: I've never seen it explained why exactly God would wait so very long to send Jesus. Why does Genesis 6 assert that God regretted creating humans and decided to destroy them, if he is omniscient and perfect? (If I knew an experiment would screw up, I wouldn't be inclined to do it anyway, and then get upset when it went wrong.)

 

Oh, heh, I took a course on world religions last year, and the professor is not a literalist, so he would say, "This is not Sunday school!"

 

Didn't help that I went to church this weekend and heard how Christians are so radically different from non-Christians and blah blah blah, well, I won't rant now, but in short: That was kind of a "wtf" moment for me. I don't think you can even detect whether someone is "spiritually dead" and besides... oh, I said I wouldn't rant. Nice to know what some people think of the "unsaved," though, like we are another species or something.

 

Most certainly true. I have noticed that self-righteousness does tend to leave a rather noticable trace wherever it goes... but of course that applies to christian and non-christian alike... but despite many claims and fervant insistances to the contrary, spirituality and morality are not one and the same, you can have one without the other.

 

I think it is so frustrating because I don't want to make a wrong decision. (Well, not that anybody wants to do stupid things...) In December I wrote, "I'm afraid of going to Hell. Really. But on the other hand, I'm afraid of giving up so much of my life to something if it's not even true." For instance, I don't know what might have happened to my relationship with my non-Christian BF if I hadn't started doubting, because we were "unequally yoked". I don't want to break things off with my boyfriend (or watch our relationship slowly die) without a damn good reason! To think that I might have lost him over something I'm not sure is even true...

 

Even if I set aside my doubts, they would, I'm sure, come back once again. (In the meantime, how is one supposed to hear from God, anyway? Bibliomancy? In one's head? Fuzzy feelings? Strange events? How would I differentiate a divinely-relayed message from my random thoughts and impressions and mental images? Maybe my avatar is HOLY.)

 

I'm sorry I rambled so MUCH! I can feel it in my bones -- I have to get off this site! NOW!! That's just because I have class, though. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're quite right about trying to set aside your doubts. It never works in my experience. They either come back with avengence later or you lose a bit of yourself trying to ignore them.

 

I can't promise you an easy road... all I can say is that if you follow where the questions take you, you will be changed. Past assumptions will be shattered. Old truths will die a quick death. Your head will be spinning as all of this happens.

 

Questions do have a nasty habit though: They do shatter a lot of illusions... but they lead you to truth along the way. If you are honest with yourself and keep an open mind, you will discover a lot about yourself and the world around you. Some breathtakingly beautiful... other parts horrifyingly ugly. Such is life.

 

I hope you and your boyfriend can be honest and come to an understanding. It would be a great waist to see that die because of ideology.

 

My best wishes to you, I hope your journey is a fair one. I look forward to seeing you on the boards!

 

Merlin

[specs appeal]

If I may...

 

Yes

 

Don't look for a label, specs appeal. If you come across one that fits rather well, fine and dandy, but you won't be wandering amelessly through life searching for meaning if you don't have an appropriate tag for your beliefs/mindset on hand and ready to flip out.

 

Yeah, I am not really interested in having one now. It used to matter to me more in the past, but now, for me, it is unimportant in itself.

 

You haven't been cataloged just yet... still in the unsorted pile. That's not necessairly bad... nor is it necessairly good. You have to figure out where you are on your own. Don't let anyone(no matter what) tell you what to think or believe. Your questions *will* give you answers.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I often have this unfortunate half-conscious inclination to want to believe whoever I'm talking to and not really disagree and just live in happy la la land. But.. no.

 

Trust yourself. Truth is something humans naturally seek out. Trust that instinct, and don't let anyone else tell you how to be.

 

Indeed; that's sort of what I wrote when I started doubting again.

"I want to learn more. I want the truth!"

 

Most certainly true. I have noticed that self-righteousness does tend to leave a rather noticable trace wherever it goes... but of course that applies to christian and non-christian alike... but despite many claims and fervant insistances to the contrary, spirituality and morality are not one and the same, you can have one without the other.

 

Hmm... yes, it does, whatever position one takes.

 

As for the second point, I agree.

 

You're quite right about trying to set aside your doubts. It never works in my experience. They either come back with avengence later or you lose a bit of yourself trying to ignore them.

 

Yeah, that's what I did a year ago... They came back (obviously)...

 

Questions do have a nasty habit though: They do shatter a lot of illusions... but they lead you to truth along the way. If you are honest with yourself and keep an open mind, you will discover a lot about yourself and the world around you. Some breathtakingly beautiful... other parts horrifyingly ugly. Such is life.

 

Yup... I am learning...

 

I hope you and your boyfriend can be honest and come to an understanding.

 

Thanks, me too. I told him that for a while I had really been wondering, but lately I feel optimistic about things (wow, did I just say I feel optimistic!?).

 

It would be a great waist to see that die because of ideology.

 

Exactly. I really think the "unequally yoked" thing would and did become damaging...

 

My best wishes to you, I hope your journey is a fair one. I look forward to seeing you on the boards!

 

Thanks, you too! (I remember seeing your posts in the past)

 

(~@-@) This is why I can say that I haven't read it myself, and I don't plan to unless I have to read up to defend my beliefs against someone and tell them all the inconsistencies in the Bible.

 

If you're interested, I've got like 16 copies for your perusal in future.

 

(edited because quotes weren't working)