"i'm So Sad You're Going To Hell"

[ilovemybrain]

I think I mentioned in another thread that my Grandma was dying, and when I got the email from Dad, most of what it said was basically "Grandma is dying and it's sad because she was Catholic so she's gonna burn in hell, and since the memorial is a rosary service, I'm not going". So yes, I was a little upset that this was all he could say about my dear sweet gramma who I loved, and I sent a kind of angry email back, saying "Are you kidding me? You're not going to your own Mom's service? That's what religion does to you". So yes, I know he was hurting and I "kicked him while he was down".

 

We exchanged a couple more emails and I apologized for being harsh, and he wrote it off to me just not understanding what's involved in a horrible EEEEEVIL rosary service. Then I said I'm sorry for his loss, and I said a bunch of nice things I remembered about Grandma. So I'm thinking everything is okay...then:

 

I get this email about how sad he is that Grandma is going to hell, and how especially sad he is that I am going there too. (I thought last time we talked, he was going with the "once saved always saved, so therefore Jesus will bring you back to him someday" theory. I guess not.)

 

I told him that it tears me up how he has to live in fear of a stupid fable. (Ok, maybe the word "stupid" was too harsh? )

and he wrote back saying "such anger and hate. That's not the daughter I remember." I said "no anger, just sad for you" and left it at that. He's hurting and this is not the time for a discussion about hell, and about all the reasons I don't believe anymore. So I'm going to try to just be kind, and brief, and stay out of it for now. I tried once to sit down and explain to them why I left christianity and he and mom just ended up crying and yelling at me. So I'm not sure it will ever be helpful to hash it all out again, ever.

 

Anyway, after all that, my husband who is a fundy, was actually comforting me and reminding me how screwed up my dad is, and how he's always been an emotional manipulator. We know that. Of course my husband believes in hell, but he's been a damn decent human being to me lately (aside from a few small outbursts, which I guess we both have).

 

So maybe this is a bit "jr. high girl gossipy" telling you all that was said. Just needed to get this off my chest. Do I seem like a hateful person? Not a fair question I suppose, since none of you have seen me interact with my christian family, but I can tell you I'm very kind and mild and respectful of them. It just hurts when people slap the label of "evil atheist" on and assume you're hateful because you don't believe in hell (or any of the rest of it.)

 

Oh well. I'm actually not feeling all that emotional about it - just pretty disgusted right now, about how religion has to divide people. With people as crazy as that around us IRL, no wonder so many of us are addicted to this site! Thanks for listening, buddies!

 

(Edited To Add: Grandma did pass away yesterday)

[TheUnknown]

(((hugs))), I'm so sorry that your father feels that way, I'm more and more convinced that such a belief system is dangerous and evil, and my deepest condolences on your grandmother's passing away

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

One of the truly prophetic verses of the bible kept running thru my head as I read your post...

 

Luke 12:

51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against. 53 ‘Father will be divided against son

and son against father;

mother against daughter

and daughter against mother;

and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law

and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.

 

My all-Fundy family have never said whether they think I'm going to hell (or if they think I'm covered by the once-saved-always-saved clause.)

 

There's nothing like religion to fuck up a family.

[florduh]

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

Regarding the email, I got the same horseshit from my dad. I'm a bit different than most people as I have no problem whatsoever cutting off toxic people from my life. I told my dad to cut it out or he wouldn't be hearing from me any more. He cut back as best he could and made a real effort. Maybe it will work for you too.

 

All the best.

[ilovemybrain]

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

Regarding the email, I got the same horseshit from my dad. I'm a bit different than most people as I have no problem whatsoever cutting off toxic people from my life. I told my dad to cut it out or he wouldn't be hearing from me any more. He cut back as best he could and made a real effort. Maybe it will work for you too.

 

All the best.

 

Thanks. I was thinking the same thing, how I may just need to cut ties with him altogether if he doesn't quit yapping about hell. I was thinking it's very likely (soon) to come down to the "shut up or you'll never hear from me anymore" but not just now in the middle of funeral arrangements, etc.

[IntoxicatedTigerJay]

Sorry for your loss...

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Brain. So sorry about the loss of your Grandma. I'm sure you will miss her, but it sounds like you have some good memories of her. That's a precious gift.

 

I'm, frankly, flabbergasted over your father's statement about his own mother going to hell and his apparent refusal to attend her funeral being catholic and all. Wow, it's just hard to get a grasp on that mindset.

 

But I'm even more flabbergasted over his telling his own daughter (you) that she is going to hell. My first reaction is, "Even if we were to assume the truth of the Bible, how the hell would he know who's going to hell and who's not?" My second reaction is, "What kind of person would say something so hurtful to their own daughter?"

 

I apologize for saying such things about your father, but I just can't help it particularly when it is said to someone like you who is so kind and thoughtful. If someone like you would go to hell, then hell would definitely be the better choice because the company would be great!!

 

I'll try to give you a few encouraging words now that I've expressed by outrage over your father's words about his mother and to you. They are that maybe he isn't fully in control since his mother just died. Maybe he's very upset and didn't truly think about his words and didn't really mean to sound so terrible to you.

 

I'm with you, babe.

[Phanta]

So sorry for your loss, Brain.

 

Phanta

[ilovemybrain]

 

 

I'll try to give you a few encouraging words now that I've expressed by outrage over your father's words about his mother and to you. They are that maybe he isn't fully in control since his mother just died. Maybe he's very upset and didn't truly think about his words and didn't really mean to sound so terrible to you.

 

I'm with you, babe.

 

Thanks for the kind words (ALL of you guys) Yes, he is especially hurting right now (he's scared too because of some bad news he got recently about his own health) but really, this is totally something he'd say even if he weren't going through a bunch of other shit. This is what you get when you cross fundamentalism with a person who's already a little weird and lacks tact. It's nothing I wasn't prepared for. I learned years ago that I'm way more mature than my parents, and I stopped depending on them emotionally or looking for their approval. Still bugs me though.

[mwc]

So how did your grandma take your dad's obvious rejection of her religion? I'm guessing he was Catholic at some point and went apostate? So the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. I guess you won't be attending his religious funeral? Or can't he see any of these parallels?

 

mwc

[ilovemybrain]

So how did your grandma take your dad's obvious rejection of her religion? I'm guessing he was Catholic at some point and went apostate? So the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. I guess you won't be attending his religious funeral? Or can't he see any of these parallels?

 

mwc

 

hehe...nope he's a fundy - he can't see past his own nose. I think the whole family is/was pretty liberal about religion, so I don't think anyone cared when he left the faith. They did care, however, when he became a fundamentalist christian and started shoving Jesus down their throats!

[foolish girl]

Brain,

 

There was a question if certain of my husband's family would attend our wedding just because it was in a First Christian Church- which is not the "Church of Christ".

I was like WHAT? Why wouldn't they come. And I was thinking then Fuck'em!

I hope your Dad decides to go, it's a one shot deal. Leave that to the rest of the family though. That's what I recommend, anyway. He isn't thinking straight and you love him, so it can't be good to put yourself in a situation where he will be inclined to say hurtful things to you.

 

You want I should knock some sense into him?

[Ro-bear]

I am sorry you are in such an unenviable position.

 

I am lucky in my Methodist upbringing. We are so used to keeping things inside that my parents and I have managed to completely ignore my atheism, with a few little exceptions, for thirty-five years. We get along great by completely ignoring contentious issues. It may not be healthy, but it is sure as hell happy.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I get this email about how sad he is that Grandma is going to hell, and how especially sad he is that I am going there too....

 

I told him that it tears me up how he has to live in fear of a stupid fable. (Ok, maybe the word "stupid" was too harsh? )

and he wrote back saying "such anger and hate. That's not the daughter I remember."

 

I'm guessing that he doesn't believe in Islam's hell, though, right? How can he have such "anger and hate" to think that that hell is a fable?

 

But on a more serious note, I wish the best for you in however this drama plays out. It must be hell (no pun intended) having to go through that and the loss of a loved one at the same time.

 

I can only imagine how bad it's going to be when my father finds out I no longer believe the myth, but it may very well be similar to your experience with your dad.

 

Anyway, good luck....

[mwc]

hehe...nope he's a fundy - he can't see past his own nose. I think the whole family is/was pretty liberal about religion, so I don't think anyone cared when he left the faith. They did care, however, when he became a fundamentalist christian and started shoving Jesus down their throats!

Sounds about right. <sigh>

 

I'm not sure how the rosary is false idols or whatever but I looked it up and from what I saw it's a 20 minute group prayer. Blech. I can see why he would want to avoid it just on that alone. Seems like a good time to excuse yourself for awhile.

 

mwc

[Guest Valk0010]

MWC you just jogged my memory o the rosary service, its boring as fuck, the one thing that is worse is the stations of the cross.

[lunaticheathen]

brain, I'm sure you love your dad (in some way), but, srsly, he's being a dick. I'm glad your husband can at least see that he's being manipulative and mean.

And I'm sorry for your grandmother's death.

But, if a rosary service is just prayers, I'd use it as a time to think my own thoughts/meditate. I always make use of "quiet time."

[noob]

Brain, I am really sorry about your Grandma. It must be tough on you and your Dad. People can do and say some really ugly things in the name of god, can’t they? When my Mom found out that I no longer believed in god she told me wished she had died on the operating table (her heart had stopped when she was in surgery a few years ago and they brought her back to life) so she would not have to know that I didn’t believe.

 

Hopefully you can maintain a balance between being kind and gentle with your Dad during this difficult time and yet protect yourself from his negativity. I do hope your Dad decides to attend the service. Like NSFG says, it's a one time shot. It seems he will feel remorseful if he misses it.

 

Take care of yourself. We’re pulling for you! Hugs!!!

[OnceConvinced]

You seem like a nice caring daughter and you seem to be doing the best you can in a bad situation. Somewhere along the line you do have to lay down the law, but you are right, maybe right now is not the best time. Sounds like you will do what's right for you when the time comes.

[Guest riverrunner]

grrr. at least WE are hear for you. fundys are dangerous.

 

I am in your same boat kinda - my mother wrote me a 'sorry you are going to hell where did i go wrong' letter (yes an actual stamped letter since she doesn't do email) which I ignored - but if she does it again I am going to let loose and tell her to stop threatening me with her fairy tales. hansel and gretel didn't work an neither will this.

[ilovemybrain]

grrr. at least WE are hear for you. fundys are dangerous.

 

I am in your same boat kinda - my mother wrote me a 'sorry you are going to hell where did i go wrong' letter (yes an actual stamped letter since she doesn't do email) which I ignored - but if she does it again I am going to let loose and tell her to stop threatening me with her fairy tales. hansel and gretel didn't work an neither will this.

 

Thanks River (and again, thanks to everyone else here). It helps tremendously to know there are all you other sane people out there who have been subjected to this shit and have dealt with the same things.

[Deva]

Sorry to hear about your Grandma. Saying to another person "you are going to hell" is a terrible thing. Sorry you have to hear such a thing, but it is coming out of a place of pain and ignorance. You are able to rise above it and take the high road, I am sure.

[pratt]

sorry to hear about the passing of your grandma. It's always hard on family regardless of religion, and hope you had fond memories of her.

 

as regard to your father, it is hard to hear such a "curse", but it also shows he is concern about you. If he is someone who you can write off, then get even. But then he is family. love him anyway especially he is not feeling great at this time. He is probably confused, angry and sad, weak and a whole lot of emotions throw together.

 

Take a step back, do all necessary for the funeral arrangements, and don't stoop to the same level as your father, tit for tat. It's already so sad for someone to cling on to a myth/lie to live his life, and it does not need you to stomp on such a person.

 

Let him know you still love him.

 

Once again, my condolences for your loss.

 

[buffettphan]

I'm so sorry about your grandma, but glad you have such good memories of her to keep her close to you.

 

Your dad... well, dammit, he's a fundie, so I'm not surprised -- pissed but not surprised. Maybe your dad needs to be reminded that there's a buybull verse that says god knows what's in the heart. So your dad shouldn't be judging who is going to heaven or hell.

 

On a positive note, YAAAY! for your DFH (DearFundyHubby -- that's what I call mine )

 

Take care.

[Dagan]

I think you're doing it right, keeping calm and not engaging.

 

It's sad that hell has such a hold on people. At the very least, should they presume to know the mind of God and decide who is condemned and who isn't? If Christianity truly is a relationship between an individual and God, no one should appoint themselves the role of marriage counsellor.

 

It's between you and God -- even if he doesn't exist