Online support group for Christian Pedophiles

[snookums]

That is not having sex with your child if you use correctional punishment such as spanking or hitting them with a rod.  I think it's wrong and I would never do it, but it's not pedophilia.

In this case, yes, it was the girls fault.  Read the fucking verse.

 

31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

 

So please, provide a bible verse that condones pedophilia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What do you want....a debate ...? A bible verse - come on give me a break, what you are doing is so pathetic. Domination through the old lets pick a definition and stick to it tactic?

 

Hang on.....lets do that first .....It my thread so I get to choose the definition -

Instead of the narrow one you are sticking to like shit on a blanket and trying to win some kind of a challenge with I might add ...may I go for the broader one of CHILD ABUSE.

 

Pedophilila.....what do you think that looks like mate? Simple in and out movements at the waist. ....nah....it involves molestation, phsyical torture, mental power games, flattering, seduction, whipping, kissing, anal sex, ditital penetration, fatherly or motherly advice, tucks into bed, outings to church, stalking, taking photos, praying together, bible lessons, fear inducing bible lesson, verbal abuse and screaming out bible verses while whipping and saying I love you........its a relationship with jessus.

 

The bible verse - yeah I read the fucking verse!.....the daughters are so keen to become mothers hey...what's so terrific about genetic pooling with old Dad.....today we have evidence that children born suffer huge birth defects from this kind of child sexual abuse. Ok...Wht do you think, that whats's written in the bibble should be used today?...Custom? ...perhaps you think your particular interpretation of the verse is the correct one?......nope I don't play it that way.

Thats crap and fuck custom. I would like to think that people are capable of 'evolving' from that kind of role modelling.

 

And yes the bible condones all kinds of child abuse - begining with the first idea in the book that children are born sinners and require correction.

 

Oh yeah....thanks for your welcome into this forum pal.....whats your problem?

[snookums]

  I do not think that Christianity condones pedophilia, and am patiently waiting for snookums to provide a quote to support his position.  I'm on your side, a midnight star...I just don't want people to bash a religion using lies.  It's Hovind-esque and there are a plentitude of things that show the religion is wrong anyways, without resorting to this kind of libel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I didn't get to read the other messages......so I add another......Bashing a religion using lies.......nope its not libel either but that's exactly what the various christian sects would like you to think.

 

I don't refer only to the bible....again that's such a narrow view. I also look into the huge amount of practises, including written guildlines that are used to 'condone' and generally manage a congregation.

 

One thing I can add here to make you think....the legal aspect. Chruches are now insuring themselves in the event they are sued for this stuff.

 

Have you done any research into this topic? It might help......I don't take this lightenly myself and didn't come here to get into a argument about it.

 

If you look waaaay up to the top of this thread you'll see that you confronted and challenged me to

Quote 'I'd like you to provide me with a quote anywhere in the bible which states that we should abuse children. "

 

and then you changed your mind and started using a different word... Why?

 

Ok I'm adding another linkhttp://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_...rticle_1789.asp

but I'm not going off at your 'comand' again - read it or don't read it. I think there is enough evidence out there for you to find yourself and perhaps change your mind thats its....NOT ONLY THE CATHOLICS that have this happen in their chruches!

[a midnight star]

What do you want....a debate ...? A bible verse - come on give me a break, what you are doing is so pathetic.  Domination through the old lets pick a definition and stick to it tactic?

 

Hang on.....lets do that first .....It my thread so I get to choose the definition -

Instead of the narrow one you are sticking to like shit on a blanket and trying to win some kind of a challenge with I might add  ...may I go for the broader one of CHILD ABUSE.

 

Pedophilila.....what do you think that looks like mate? Simple in and out movements at the waist. ....nah....it involves molestation, phsyical torture, mental  power games, flattering, seduction, whipping, kissing, anal sex, ditital penetration, fatherly or motherly advice, tucks into bed, outings to church, stalking, taking photos, praying together, bible lessons, fear inducing bible lesson, verbal abuse and screaming out bible verses while whipping and saying I love you........its a relationship with jessus.

 

SO taking a child to church is child abuse? Praying with your children is child abuse? Tucking them into bed is child abuse? I do get that these things are present in child abuse, but are not in and of themselves. Spanking a child is not child abuse in my book either, not is it defined as such by law. I do get that these things are included and are present in an abusive relationship, but lets keep it in reality.

 

The bible verse - yeah I read the fucking verse!.....the daughters are so keen to become mothers hey...what's so terrific about genetic pooling with old Dad.....today we have evidence that children born suffer huge birth defects from this kind of child sexual abuse. Ok...Wht do you think, that whats's written in the bibble should be used today?...Custom? ...perhaps you think your particular interpretation of the verse is the correct one?......nope I don't play it that way.

Thats crap and fuck custom. I would like to think that people are capable of 'evolving' from that kind of role modelling.

 

You need to go a little further in the scripture then you will realize that the girls were cursed and the father punished them for this. Where in the world are you getting that this is child abuse. The father was passed out and the girls did it on their own.

 

And yes the bible condones all kinds of child abuse  - begining with the first idea in the book that children are born sinners and require correction.

 

Are you suggesting that correcting a child is abuse?

 

Oh yeah....thanks for your welcome into this forum pal.....whats your problem?

 

Relax. He is a good guy. Even though him and I do not agree on many things he has always treated me with respect and fairness. The only time he has ever gotten personal with me was to lend support.

[a midnight star]

Have you done any research into this topic? It might help......I don't take this lightenly myself and didn't come here to get into a argument about it.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Then why are you here? SO that everyone will just say how great you are and confirm everything that comes out of your fingers? You are in the wrong place if you honestly think that the posters here won't state their minds. Hell, I will go as far as to say that this is one of the reasons forums are so popular.

[snookums]

Then why are you here? SO that everyone will just say how great you are and confirm everything that comes out of your fingers? You are in the wrong place if you honestly think that the posters here won't state their minds. Hell, I will go as far as to say that this is one of the reasons forums are so popular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you misunderstand me.....and perhaps are being a little territorial? You and Aismov are picking apart very single word I write.

Ok it seems that you have an instant dislike for me......but

 

Abuse doen't happen in a vacum and to pull it apart the picture I created word by word is very unfair and unrealilistic.

 

Is it ok with you if I stay and state my mind also? I dont give a rats arse whats written in the bibble - that's my whole point!

 

BTW....where is Asimov and why are you here making it personal?

I'm not about to submit you anyone on the internet and that's what I felt the other guy was doing....brow beating me.

[snookums]

I can't get the thingy to work so I'm cut and pasting in case http://www.cblf.org/messages/29346.htmhttp://www.cblf.org/messages/29346.htm

 

This is why I'm here.........to discuss the fact the people sitting in chruch have this kind of "belief" and tend to demonstate it on innocent children. Please note he's also a 'scoutmaster'.....and thinks he's 'special' ie. the holy ghost.

 

Empathy and Pentecost

 

Submitted by Scoutmaster Jim on 2005-08-8 04:04:50, Monday

 

 

I don't generally discuss this, even with other Christians, but I honestly believe I have been (undeservedly) given a "fruitage of the Spirit". By Jehovah's will, I am used as a conduit for Divine energy. No, I'm not some belicose, Bible-belting, overbearing Southerner on public access cable. In fact, that type has made me very shy about discussing this sort of thing. Still, I believe this to be real, so bear with me....

 

As a small child, I remember "reaching" into the minds of my parents, usually to find some way to articulate a concept I did not understand. Somehow, I don't feel this is an unusual phenomenon, among those too young to have learned about personal boundaries.... Even as an adult, this happens occasionally, usually just with someone very close to me, though. I think there is a free-will component to it, where both parties give and receive only as much of themselves as they are willing to trust to each other. Still, I am sometimes made to understand that someone is in pain, afraid, alone, etc. I mentally send (or is that "foreward"?) them a capsule version of what I believe and what can/has been done through me. Most edge away, but some reveal a little more of themselves, on rare occasion leading to a rapid-fire mental dialogue (some words, but mostly images and emotions). That is usually the end of it, which gives me just enough to offer a prayer on behalf of the other, and that's fine. They may even gain enough to make a prayer for me, if they are so inclined.

 

On EXTREMELY rare occasions, we are both willing to connect on a deeper level. This usually amounts to a pseudo-psychic faith healing (going AND coming, for that is the only way such things work). It's very confusing, even a little painful, to have something as vast as the Holy Spirit pouring through my poor, over-taxed human neurons, and I suppose I could refuse to be used in this way.... To my shame, I sometimes do exactly that, especially with someone in whom I found something frightening. I suppose it's a matter of self preservation, not taking too much darkness into myself, but I feel guilty about it.

 

After many years of reflection, I have decided this phenomenon accounts for my being a boylover. Kids are comparatively innocent (even those that have been exposed to true evil have experienced it in only a few sectors of their life, and can usually wall it off from the rest of their world). They are also vastly more emotionally open than adults. Making a connection with a child can be, well, restful, even joyful. Through children, I can experience a shadow of their wonder-joy about life. Even terminally ill, severely abused, etc, children often find life far more wonderous than the average adult. (That says something about modern society, I think, although that is not the topic of this post...)

 

The reason for my preference for boys is obvious. I'm male. The similarity between two males (or two females, for that matter) generally allows them to bond (ie accept each other) faster and easier. I WAS A BOY, so we share a lot of common ground. Combine this with the emotional openess of youth, what else could I be, but a boylover?

 

Most interestingly, I am definately a boylover (paedophile), but only a marginal boyluster (paederast), Jehovah be praised. I would give a lot of time and money to have someone to cuddle with me at night, give backrubs while watching TV, have wash my back in the shower, etc. Sexually, though, I only get curious about YF's who are also getting curious, which makes me wonder if it's really MY curiosity, or theirs, feeding back through the whole empathy thing.....

 

I really don't know the answers (but, God knows, I want to). Maybe paedophiles in general have been blessed with the same gifts of the Spirit as I have , but , in this secular age, interpret that gift as something it is not.... I just don't know.

 

I will pray over it, and I encourage all like-minded brothers to do the same.

[Cerise]

Deuteronomy 19:15 - One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established.

 

It might not condone child abuse, but it certainly helped certain churches find excuses as to why they should not support/believe/help child victims who came to them.

 

"I'm sorry but we cannot do anything when it's just your word against his. Find another witness, pray for intervention, and then come back with your complaint."

 

There are no witnesses

 

"You need two witnesses in order to make these accusations."

 

Proverbs 17:9 - He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

 

"Don't keep talking about it. Especially don't talk about it with people outside the church authority figures."

 

How can I heal when I cannot speak?

 

"You want to be a good christian, don't you? You want to love your neighbours, even those that hurt you, right? Be loving. Keep silent. If you talk you may destroy the brotherhood of the church. You'll ruin everything."

 

I don't want to ruin everything

 

"Then it's all settled. Don't talk to anyone but God about this."

 

 

For the record, I consider the covering up of child abuse to be "aiding and abetting" the practice, as it were.

 

If we are talking about christianity in general and not just certain biblical verses in regards to sexual abuse, I can tell you one thing. The docterine of everyone being regulated to the label of sinner, combined with the assertion that all sins are equal in the eyes of God (that is, all sins will get you the same punishment, i.e. Hell), and followed with the oft repeated story of the adulterous woman and the saying "he who is without sin shall throw the first stone" can lead to some fancy footwork in avoiding responsibility for stopping sexual abuse and punishing perpetrators.

 

Add to this the idea that ones sins are personal and are a matter to only be taken up with God (and forgiven by God). Add to this a general assumption that children are to obey their elders, and women are to obey men. Add to this Jesus' oft-touted perscription of "turning the other cheek".

 

It all adds up to a very effective silencing.

[snookums]

Deuteronomy 19:15 - One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established.

 

It might not condone child abuse, but it certainly helped certain churches find excuses as to why they should not support/believe/help child victims who came to them.

 

"I'm sorry but we cannot do anything when it's just your word against his.  Find another witness, pray for intervention, and then come back with your complaint."

 

There are no witnesses

 

"You need two witnesses in order to make these accusations."

 

Proverbs 17:9 - He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

 

"Don't keep talking about it.  Especially don't talk about it with people outside the church authority figures."

 

How can I heal when I cannot speak?

 

"You want to be a good christian, don't you?  You want to love your neighbours, even those that hurt you, right?  Be loving.  Keep silent.  If you talk you may destroy the brotherhood of the church.  You'll ruin everything."

 

I don't want to ruin everything

 

"Then it's all settled.  Don't talk to anyone but God about this."

For the record, I consider the covering up of child abuse to be "aiding and abetting" the practice, as it were.

 

If we are talking about christianity in general and not just certain biblical verses in regards to sexual abuse, I can tell you one thing.  The docterine of everyone being regulated to the label of sinner, combined with the assertion that all sins are equal in the eyes of God (that is, all sins will get you the same punishment, i.e. Hell), and followed with the oft repeated story of the adulterous woman and the saying "he who is without sin shall throw the first stone" can lead to some fancy footwork in avoiding responsibility for stopping sexual abuse and punishing perpetrators.

 

Add to this the idea that ones sins are personal and are a matter to only be taken up with God (and forgiven by God).  Add to this a general assumption that children are to obey their elders, and women are to obey men.  Add to this Jesus' oft-touted perscription of "turning the other cheek".

 

It all adds up to a very effective silencing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes Deut 19 is a favorite especially used by the JW's. Its has a terrible effect on people....to the extent that victims must sit together with the perp they have tried to reveal but nothing happens....well they get blamed and more damaged....I did provide a link to that earlier in one of my posts...called Silent Lambs...but it appears no one opened.

 

I'm still getting used to this forum. My personal style is to offer information by way of hints...and links.

 

Anyhoo... the bible as we all know can be interpreted and used by anyone against anyone. The idea that fundamentalists read 'literally' is not true. They put it together as you have described in order to deliver a message...which is basically to condone child abuse.

 

Thanks for your input......yep you gotta look at the big picture sometimes to get the best view.

[snookums]

I forgot to add.......

 

I was quite shocked to come to an ex christian forum and be so challenged with the same old christian tactic of quoting bible verses and such.

 

I thought I was writing to athiests (as stated by the ID tags)...but it appears some haven't forgotten that it stops conversation well enough. At least to this little ex christian......I find debating bible verses quite nauseating mostly.

 

It takes me back if yu know what I mean!

[Asimov]

What do you want....a debate ...? A bible verse - come on give me a break, what you are doing is so pathetic.  Domination through the old lets pick a definition and stick to it tactic?

 

What are you talking about? First you say pedophiles, then you switch to child abuse? Now you're shifting the goal posts.

 

Pedophilila...

 

So now we're back to pedophilia?

 

Pedophilia is defined as "the act or fantasy on the part of an adult engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

 

It has nothing to do with beating or whipping unless for sexual gratification, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

The bible verse - yeah I read the fucking verse....and now I'm going to ramble irrelevantly about something totally unrelated....

 

Dude, you didn't read the fucking verse if you think this has anything to do with pedophilia.

 

And yes the bible condones all kinds of child abuse  - begining with the first idea in the book that children are born sinners and require correction.

 

Once again, you started off with pedophilia and now you switch to child abuse.

 

Oh yeah....thanks for your welcome into this forum pal.....whats your problem?

 

Your rape of logic.

[Asimov]

I didn't get to read the other messages......so I add another......Bashing a religion using lies.......nope its not libel either but that's exactly what the various christian sects would like you to think.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I don't refer only to the bible....again that's such a narrow view. I also look into the huge amount of practises, including written guildlines that are used to 'condone' and generally manage a congregation.

 

Dude, the foundation of the faith is the bible. If there is no mention of pedophilia in the bible, then the person is only trying to justify to themselves that this is ok. Since the entire religion does not condone pedophilia, you cannot say that Christianity condones pedophilia.

 

One thing I can add here to make you think....the legal aspect. Chruches are now insuring themselves in the event they are sued for this stuff.

 

So? What does that have to do with Christianity condoning pedophilia?

 

Have you done any research into this topic? It might help......I don't take this lightenly myself and didn't come here to get into a argument about it.

 

Then why post?

 

and then you changed your mind and started using a different word... Why?

 

Well, genius, if you follow the thread:

 

Snookums:

Online support group for Christian Pedophiles, I'm new and I'm mad right now!

 

Asimov:

Regardless of Christianity, Man-boy love has been going on for thousands of years. It has nothing to do with religion itself.

 

Snookums:

I'm concerned bout pedophiles and how gathering together is perhaps a great way for the authorities to catch the bastards.

 

I'm also interested how 'sexual urges' are influenced by christianity........from what I gather, the environment of christianity proves pedophiles that certain 'when in Rome feeling'.....ok...sarcasm aside.....it seems that the guy mentioned in the article 'loved' in a special way that doesn't concern itself with the effects it has on their victims.

 

He 'loved' them so much he invited god into it and made it a threesome.

 

Asimov:

No, not really. Even Christian culture condemns pedophilia.

Um, Christianity generally suppresses sexual urges.

 

And then you said right here:

 

Snookums:

No it doesn't.......it has condoned it....for centuries

It is written....thou shall abuse children

 

And then I asked for a quote which said that. After which you started on your long whine-fest without backing up once where

 

1. Pedophilia is condoned by Christianity.

2. Where it says "thou shalt abuse children" in the bible.

 

If Christianity and the Bible condemns sex outside marriage in any form, then Christianity does not condone pedophilia. It's as simple as that.

 

If it does not say "thou shalt abuse children" in the bible, then you are lying or misinformed.

 

Correctional punishment is not abuse.

[Asimov]

I forgot to add.......

 

I was quite shocked to come to an ex christian forum and be so challenged with the same old christian tactic of quoting bible verses and such.

 

I thought I was writing to athiests (as stated by the ID tags)...but it appears some haven't forgotten that it stops conversation well enough. At least to this little ex christian......I find debating bible verses quite nauseating mostly.

 

It takes me back if yu know what I mean!

 

We're not debating bible verses, you're falsely stating something is true, and I'm calling you on it.

[snookums]

We're not debating bible verses, you're falsely stating something is true, and I'm calling you on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ditto

[snookums]

Silent lambs

May 29, 2005

Reporter : Graham Davis

Producer : Kirstine Lumb

 

This is a story about child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness church. Reporter Graham Davis first explored this topic on Sunday three years ago and uncovered some shocking allegations. This week he exposes further evidence of paedophilia and sexual abuse within the organisation and also reveals the lack of action taken to prevent future abuse. While mainstream churches like the Catholics and Anglicans have been forced to respond to child abuse in their ranks, convicted paedophiles are still accepted in the Jehovah's Witnesses. They're protected by the sect's strict adherence to biblical passages in Deuteronomy and Matthew which say nothing can be established except from the mouths of two or three witnesses. This rule in effect renders a successful prosecution impossible. Some of the silent lambs speak out for the first time about the sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of trusted Witnesses.

 

For further information on the Jehovah Witnesses, visit the following websites:

 

The official website of the Jehovah's Witnesses www.watchtower.org

 

www.silentlambs.org: US based non-profit organisation dedicated to helping child sexual abuse victims from the Jehovah's Witnesses. They may provide counselling, legal, financial and other assistance. The site is run by a former Jehovah's Witness elder.

 

www.freeminds.org: Another non-profit organisation "keeping an eye on the Watchtower" (Jehovah's Witnesses). Not affiliated with any religious organisation. Their purpose is to educate the public about the methods that all cults use and how to combat them.

 

www.watchtowerinformationservice.org: Information on the Jehovah's Witness organisation including: Doctrine, "Watchtower Society vs the World", stories and biographies, child sexual abuse, racial and ethical issues, psychological issues, "The Watchtower Society and money", blood transfusions and other medical controversies, "how the Watchtower Society juggles with dates".

 

www.pnc.com.au/~fichrist: Free in Christ ministries are an Australian non-denominational Christian counter-cult ministry providing information about the Jehovah's Witnesses "and other cults." Free In Christ Ministries arranges counselling for families and friends of cult members and former cult members themselves and conducts educational programs through local Church, youth and school groups.

 

Click here to read a transcript of this story.

[Asimov]

Ditto

 

Where have I falsely stated something?

[Asimov]

This is a story about child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness church. Reporter Graham Davis first explored this topic on Sunday three years ago and uncovered some shocking allegations. This week he exposes further evidence of paedophilia and sexual abuse within the organisation and also reveals the lack of action taken to prevent future abuse. While mainstream churches like the Catholics and Anglicans have been forced to respond to child abuse in their ranks, convicted paedophiles are still accepted in the Jehovah's Witnesses. They're protected by the sect's strict adherence to biblical passages in Deuteronomy and Matthew which say nothing can be established except from the mouths of two or three witnesses. This rule in effect renders a successful prosecution impossible. Some of the silent lambs speak out for the first time about the sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of trusted Witnesses.

 

Once again this is not the bible condoning pedophilia, nor is it a verse regarding child abuse, we've gone over this already.

[snookums]

I didn't get to read the other messages......so I add another......Bashing a religion using lies.......nope its not libel either but that's exactly what the various christian sects would like you to think.

 

I don't refer only to the bible....again that's such a narrow view. I also look into the huge amount of practises, including written guildlines that are used to 'condone' and generally manage a congregation.

 

One thing I can add here to make you think....the legal aspect. Chruches are now insuring themselves in the event they are sued for this stuff.

 

Have you done any research into this topic? It might help......I don't take this lightenly myself and didn't come here to get into a argument about it.

 

If you look waaaay up to the top of this thread you'll see that you confronted and challenged me to

Quote 'I'd like you to provide me with a quote anywhere in the bible which states that we should abuse children. "

 

and then you changed your mind and started using a different word... Why?

 

Ok I'm adding another linkhttp://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_...rticle_1789.asp

but I'm not going off at your 'comand' again - read it or don't read it. I think there is enough evidence out there for you to find yourself and perhaps change your mind thats its....NOT ONLY THE CATHOLICS that have this happen in their chruches!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm quoting this again so you can reach the link to the Silent Lambs information.

[snookums]

Once again this is not the bible condoning pedophilia, nor is it a verse regarding child abuse, we've gone over this already.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One last time......

 

W....h...a...t.....is........your......problem? Read it for yourself. You and I can't see the same picture within xianity regarding child sexual abuse. Ok - leave it.

 

Do you have a definition of that? Child sexual abuse and pedophilia - they go together usually.

 

I don't much enjoy bible to bible verse confrontations....I got enough of that from the pentie pastor who condemned me to hell. He even resorted to tongues.

 

I'm very shock this is coming from a declared atheist.......have you had this kind of thing done to you as well by people of god. The bible book is often used the same way I feel you are using it......as a weapon.

 

I'm wondering, what do you say to the other poster Cerise, he/she gives a very clear summary of basically the same ideas I have.....its not brain surgery ...those ideas are quite common. - I think you are making this personal and you are not reading reference I provide or other comments.

[Asimov]

W....h...a...t.....is........your......problem? Read it for yourself. I'm sorry you and I can't see the same picture within xianity regarding child sexual abuse.

 

What is your problem? You're looking at the people who follow the religion, I'm looking at the book that is the foundation of the religion(s). People of all shapes and sizes, creeds, colours and religions sexually abuse children. The Bible does not condone sex outside of marriage, therefore it does not condone pedophilia.

 

I'm very shock this is coming from a declared atheist.......have you had this kind of thing done to you as well by men of god. The bible book is often used the same way I feel you are using it......as a weapon.

 

What do you say to the other poster Cerise, she gives a very clear summary of basically the same ideas I have.....its not brain surgery ...those ideas are quite common.

 

Omg...what is your problem now?

[snookums]

What is your problem?  You're looking at the people who follow the religion, I'm looking at the book that is the foundation of the religion(s).  People of all shapes and sizes, creeds, colours and religions sexually abuse children.  The Bible does not condone sex outside of marriage, therefore it does not condone pedophilia.

Omg...what is your problem now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you changing the posts again.

We are not talking about people who are not christians.

 

No no no no no....you logic isn't very helpful to the cause. What are you interesting in winning or talking about child sexual abuse? People /book...what good is a book without people?

 

You are kidding yourself.

[snookums]

Deuteronomy 19:15 - One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sins: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established.

 

It might not condone child abuse, but it certainly helped certain churches find excuses as to why they should not support/believe/help child victims who came to them.

 

"I'm sorry but we cannot do anything when it's just your word against his.  Find another witness, pray for intervention, and then come back with your complaint."

 

There are no witnesses

 

"You need two witnesses in order to make these accusations."

 

Proverbs 17:9 - He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

 

"Don't keep talking about it.  Especially don't talk about it with people outside the church authority figures."

 

How can I heal when I cannot speak?

 

"You want to be a good christian, don't you?  You want to love your neighbours, even those that hurt you, right?  Be loving.  Keep silent.  If you talk you may destroy the brotherhood of the church.  You'll ruin everything."

 

I don't want to ruin everything

 

"Then it's all settled.  Don't talk to anyone but God about this."

For the record, I consider the covering up of child abuse to be "aiding and abetting" the practice, as it were.

 

If we are talking about christianity in general and not just certain biblical verses in regards to sexual abuse, I can tell you one thing.  The docterine of everyone being regulated to the label of sinner, combined with the assertion that all sins are equal in the eyes of God (that is, all sins will get you the same punishment, i.e. Hell), and followed with the oft repeated story of the adulterous woman and the saying "he who is without sin shall throw the first stone" can lead to some fancy footwork in avoiding responsibility for stopping sexual abuse and punishing perpetrators.

 

Add to this the idea that ones sins are personal and are a matter to only be taken up with God (and forgiven by God).  Add to this a general assumption that children are to obey their elders, and women are to obey men.  Add to this Jesus' oft-touted perscription of "turning the other cheek".

 

It all adds up to a very effective silencing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Any responses?

[Asimov]

It might not condone child abuse, but it certainly helped certain churches find excuses as to why they should not support/believe/help child victims who came to them.

 

It does, and the Churches who use this should recognize that the law of the land must be followed, regardless of what the bible says.

 

Proverbs 17:9 - He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

 

I think this is a severe misinterpretation of what is being said. It's basically saying don't keep on about something that's already been dealt with.

 

It looks like whoever uses that verse is twisting themselves into pretzels trying to justify shutting people up...that's my point of view.

[Asimov]

Are you changing the posts again.

We are not talking about people who are not christians.

 

No no no no no....you logic isn't very helpful to the cause. What are you interesting in winning or talking about child sexual abuse? People /book...what good is a book without people?

 

You are kidding yourself.

 

 

Where am I changing the posts. You stated Christianity condones pedophilia, you stated that it is written in the bible "thou shalt abuse children".

 

If you want to talk about sexual abuse, then why bring up christianity at all? The only reason WHY you would do that is to simply bash a religion and not really bring up sexual abuse. If sexual abuse is the issue, then talk about it.

[snookums]

It does, and the Churches who use this should recognize that the law of the land must be followed, regardless of what the bible says.

I think this is a severe misinterpretation of what is being said.  It's basically saying don't keep on about something that's already been dealt with. 

 

It looks like whoever uses that verse is twisting themselves into pretzels trying to justify shutting people up...that's my point of view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You finally got it...... .that's called condoning child sexual abuse if they do that.

 

Speaking out it not something the preps want - especially if they are chruch leaders. Its been under cover for centuries. Now there are insurances for churches to take out - however most like the victims to sign a document to stop talking about it they will accept a pissy pay out.

thats also condoning it.

 

The silence is critical for preps to continue and my problem/rationale for posting is that they are congregation online sharing notes and pictures and supporting each other's lifestyle.....while talking about god etc in a way that made me want to spew. How dare they.....get into 'fellowship' that way......that is condoning it.

[Asimov]

You finally got it...... .that's called condoning child sexual abuse if they do that.

 

Yea.....and where did I say that the people don't condone it?