Online support group for Christian Pedophiles

[snookums]

Where am I changing the posts.  You stated Christianity condones pedophilia, you stated that it is written in the bible "thou shalt abuse children". 

 

If you want to talk about sexual abuse, then why bring up christianity at all?  The only reason WHY you would do that is to simply bash a religion and not really bring up sexual abuse.  If sexual abuse is the issue, then talk about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Second thoughts I don't think you like me for some reason?

 

Thou shalt abuse children.....I was making a point...twit!

 

Christianity is a very high risk area for children...that's how come I bring it up. I can tell you that xians have a huge problem with sex generally because of the nature of the teachings...don't do it or you'll go blind...yep that's in the bibble.

 

And if I fucken well want to bash a religion = xianity I will. Ok ....Thats called free will.....I'll take the consequences.....hell - damnation - holy spirit attack or whatever its not up to YOU to tell me want to do...

 

P.s. that's a very xian thought process.

[Asimov]

Or you can look at the problem they have in India, where children are being sold to brothels where they are raped on a daily basis....

 

can't really remember if there are any Christian places like that...

 

Or maybe in Ancient Greece, where it WAS part of the culture to have a boy pair up with a man to establish a relationship of learning...sex included in it.

[snookums]

Yea.....and where did I say that the people don't condone it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

heeheee......this is fun

 

You asked me to supply bible verses...Yes? ok people read the bible - interpreting it. Without people the book is nothing

 

who cares what is says! Well ok the catholics are kind and generous and telling their congregations what is true and not true.....<sarcasm>

 

Yipeee....are you going to do that as well.

 

Words..words..you are trying hard aren't you?

[snookums]

Or you can look at the problem they have in India, where children are being sold to brothels where they are raped on a daily basis....

 

can't really remember if there are any Christian places like that...

 

Or maybe in Ancient Greece, where it WAS part of the culture to have a boy pair up with a man to establish a relationship of learning...sex included in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok...I'll take that as a cease fire....

 

Yep there are actually - not the same but similar....they are called religious orphan schools. All over the world kids in those places are abused. There was a story I read just a few days ago...um...a school for teenagers who become preg - boy that was nasty - Texas I think.

 

Most of the faith based inititives....social services give me the creeps - just forgive they say just like in the bibble..

 

But yes ancient times - are ancient times and not here and now

 

Interesting subject and of course very painful - for me too.

[Asimov]

heeheee......this is fun

 

You asked me to supply bible verses...Yes? ok people read the bible - interpreting it. Without people the book is nothing

 

who cares what is says! Well ok the catholics are kind and generous and telling their congregations what is true and not true.....<sarcasm>

 

Yipeee....are you going to do that as well.

 

Words..words..you are trying hard aren't you?

 

So? Their interpretation is wrong...there is such a thing.

[Dianka]

Snook, for a while there it seemed that you had the upper hand, but your refusal to cite a Bible verse to support your claim is a BIG gaping hole in your arugment.

 

To top it all, you write off having to support your argument by stating that the saving grace - and by the way, justification for wasting your entire day - of your entire opinion is not important.

 

You asked me to supply bible verses...Yes? ok people read the bible - interpreting it. Without people the book is nothing

 

who cares what is says! Well ok the catholics are kind and generous and telling their congregations what is true and not true.....<sarcasm>

 

C'mon

[Asimov]

snookums, your statements regarding me and christianity and whether or not I like you are you putting a little too much emotion into the argument. I neither like nor dislike you.

[Amethyst]

Spanking a child is not child abuse in my book either, not is it defined as such by law.

 

Yes, it is. It leaves physical and emotional scars. This is why it is illegal in many states.

 

Are you suggesting that correcting a child is abuse?

 

There are other methods of correcting children than hitting them. Time outs, communication, grounding, denying of toys/privileges, etc. I will NEVER hit my kids if I have any. Nor will I ever force them to go through the emotional abuse that is Christianity.

[trashy]

Hang on.....lets do that first .....It my thread so I get to choose the definition -

Instead of the narrow one you are sticking to like shit on a blanket and trying to win some kind of a challenge with I might add  ...may I go for the broader one of CHILD ABUSE.

If I may interject...........*ahem*

 

It seems like you have been saying that the Bible condones child abuse for most of this thread, which probably confused and frustrated Asimov since he was talking only about pedophilia. It also seems that you are actually saying that the Bible is *used* by many so-called Christians to condone child abuse. While I would agree, that's not the same thing as the Bible itself specifically promoting it.

 

The bible verse - yeah I read the fucking verse!.....the daughters are so keen to become mothers hey...what's so terrific about genetic pooling with old Dad.....today we have evidence that children born suffer huge birth defects from this kind of child sexual abuse. Ok...Wht do you think, that whats's written in the bibble should be used today?...Custom? ...perhaps you think your particular interpretation of the verse is the correct one?......nope I don't play it that way.

 

Traditional interpretations would take this story at face value. I think you are stating that the Bible is a man's viewpoint of a story, and that the *real* story is that this is child abuse and that these women would never have done this of their own free will. Perhaps so.

[trashy]

Snookums - if your point is that many Christians abuse children and use the Bible to justify it, you probably won't find any disagreement here on this board. No one would debate you on that here. But you and Asimov seem to be arguing PAST each other. Asimov is not arguing that people don't do bad things. He's simply arguing the point that the Bible does not specifically teach that having sex with children is OK. He's not disagreeing with you about Christians abusing Scripture to justify abusing children.

 

And you don't have to post all these abuse stories to make your point. Again, no one here disagrees with you that some Christians abuse children. Keep in mind that almost all of us were Christians at one point.

 

In the future, however, if you want to avoid being jumped on you might try to be more specific in your points. Oh, and thanks for posting some of those 'boylove' things - I can't access them from work but was curious - it's truly sick! Reminds me of the recent news story of the foster parent keeping kids in cages, literally.

[a midnight star]

Yes, it is.  It leaves physical and emotional scars.  This is why it is illegal in many states.

There are other methods of correcting children than hitting them.  Time outs, communication, grounding, denying of toys/privileges, etc.  I will NEVER hit my kids if I have any.  Nor will I ever force them to go through the emotional abuse that is Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Just a differing opinion, I believe that there is a fine line between spanking and hitting. I do know the difference, seeing that I was hit as a child. Or rather beaten and yes, they used the biblical verse "spare the rod......"

 

In which states is it illegal? Seriously, this is the first time I have heard that it was illegal. I have found where it is illegal in 22 states (ONLY 22?) for schools to spank. I thought that it was illegal everywhere.

 

I do not see christianity as being child abuse, I will however, admit that while I was beaten etc... I was taught (you all know those "do what I say and not what I do type of chrisitians") the ideals. I do see that they seem to forget the "do not provoke your children to anger" verse.

[trashy]

Just a differing opinion, I believe that there is a fine line between spanking and hitting. I do know the difference, seeing that I was hit as a child. Or rather beaten and yes, they used the biblical verse "spare the rod......"

 

My father, the pastor, spanked me but good when he thought it was appropriate. Only once did it seem to involve anger. I generally understood it as a punishment and I generally thought I probably deserved it.

 

On the other hand, I was also a victim of 'boylove' molestation at the hands of a nice man in another town who also happened to be a music/youth ministry person at a church. Fortunately it was brief and non-violent.

 

So, not all spanking is child abuse and not all molestation is traumatic......

 

I had a real good point when I started typing this but it escapes me now...........

 

LOL

[a midnight star]

I think you misunderstand me.....and perhaps are being a little territorial? You and Aismov are picking apart very single word I write.

Ok it seems that  you have an instant dislike for me......but

 

Actually I do think that I misunderstood. It seemed to me that you were saying that those were child abuse on their own. If not..... then I didn't quite get what you were saying.

 

Abuse doen't happen in a vacum and to pull it apart the picture I created word by word is very unfair and unrealilistic.

 

True, and I stated as much

 

Is it ok with you if I stay and state my mind also? I dont give a rats arse whats written in the bibble - that's my whole point!

 

Stay, I enjoy debating and it is only fun if there is more than one opinion. It was just your "I am not here to argue" bit. It seemed to me as if you weren't open to a differing opinion.

 

If you make a statement such as "the bible condones sexual abuse" then you should be prepared to show where the bible states it. Now if you had said that some or most christian condone it in their ability and their continuance of keeping it silenced, then I would agree with you. 100%.

 

The point that is trying to be made here is that even though the bible does not in anyway state nor does it condone sexual abuse, the way some christians interpet or act it does seem as if they do condone it.

 

One thing that I am just starting to learn is that people are fallable. This is not exclusive to christianity alone. People are people and sickos will always be able to twist the bible to make is say something that it doesn't. I wasn't abused because I was in a so-called christian home, I was abuse because the people in my family are sick assholes. My uncle was a non-practicing catholic and that was only because he was born into it. My parents were wof and aog, practicing christians. It didnt' make a difference, I was abused by both. What happened would have happened (the thing with my step dad started before they got religion) whether religion was involved or not. The bible didn't condone the abuse, the christians did with their silence and their "oh well I was forgiven so it never happened". I had a lot of anger over this. But again, it was the people not their religious book that condoned it.

 

 

 

BTW....where is Asimov and why are you here making it personal?

I'm not about to submit you anyone on the internet and that's what I felt the other guy was doing....brow beating me.

 

The subject matter is personal to me, not you. There is a difference. If you had bothered to read my posts in this thread, you would realize that I agree with you more than not.

[Asimov]

 

You got it right there, buddy-boy.

[snookums]

Snookums - if your point is that many Christians abuse children and use the Bible to justify it, you probably won't find any disagreement here on this board.  No one would debate you on that here.  But you and Asimov seem to be arguing PAST each other.  Asimov is not arguing that people don't do bad things.  He's simply arguing the point that the Bible does not specifically teach that having sex with children is OK.  He's not disagreeing with you about Christians abusing Scripture to justify abusing children.

 

And you don't have to post all these abuse stories to make your point.  Again, no one here disagrees with you that some Christians abuse children.  Keep in mind that almost all of us were Christians at one point.

 

In the future, however, if you want to avoid being jumped on you might try to be more specific in your points.  Oh, and thanks for posting some of those 'boylove' things - I can't access them from work but was curious - it's truly sick!  Reminds me of the recent news story of the foster parent keeping kids in cages, literally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes I was suggesting all that. Thanks for interpreting for me. I guess that's the best example I have to further demonstate my opinion. Basically that there are people - prophets who do just what you have done for me.

If I can explain.....my childhood..I was raised according to the SDA dogma which includes 'works' and words of the now dead prophet Ellen White, she wrote separate books on every subject you can think of including 'how to raise children' and yes in those she gave advice to parents that, subjectively or objectively could be called 'child abuse'......anyway that's how a huge amount of ex SDAist feel.

 

That leads me to explain one of my statements 'I don't care whats in the bible"...thats right because inside the SDA christian sect for example, Ellen White interpreted and made huge additions to it. I'm also aware (but won't site) of many other xian sects/denominations doing the same thing.

 

 

Yes I was at times frustrated that no one had bothered to comment on the article I had posted but turned to the common thing of 'that's not in the bible'....or arguing definitions. Thanks for the clarifications....and looking into it. Yep its horrible.

 

Ex cwristian are that sensitive? how can I or anyone express themselves openly - self critism is healthy in my opinion....ok...I myself was given that label.

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Yeah I did waste some of the day SurlyMermaid81 funny you should notice....but I was prepared to do that in order to come to terms with my entry into this forum. At times I let my emotions rule my thoughts but as I've hinted right at the on set (I'm mad meaning angry) this is also a touchy subject for me. I indicated that more than once Btw.

 

From my prespective.........the bible is not read literally by fundies even though that's what they claim to do....otherwise there would be consensus among all the tribes (denominations etc) and there is not.

 

I don't value the bible for anything other than its a book that happens to direct a huge section of the population.

 

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Reply to Midnight Star....

Yes I was sexually abused as a child & teenager and the perps were of different backgrounds. I also have a degree and have worked with women surviors in the community sector in Aust. For me, the experience of being brought up in a xian/fundy type household caused much (unnecessary) added damage - in fact it was extreme. Also from experience of working for a short time within a xian based counselling service I think that most xian dogmas do not allow the victim to recover. They do forgiveness therapy (joke) or pray about it. I forgot to add one of the main gaps.......xians seem not to accept the need to express anger and rage. Surviors are taught to supress it or get rid of it ASAP. Thats not right imo and supported by other services.

 

My personal experience was that my parents etc. made me into the evil doer - slut ...you know....and continued the abuse through emotional and physical abuse but that's a very common outcome. ..the bible teaches that children are born sinners and must be corrected - meaning punished for their inate wickedness. Any kind of sex is sinnful. Masturbation is bad enough. I've very grateful that I'm as healthy as I am.

 

Also from my experiences I think children are made more vulnerable to sexual abuse because of the teachings of xianity (see Cerise) and because of the family relationships. My opinion differs but that's ok - I enjoy discussion...err...but not heavy debates.

 

People who are victimised this way suffer enormous shame and guilt.....thats compounded by xianity. We are never good enough and need salvation. TI know within some circles.....people are made to confess all their sins and unfortunately child sexual abuse is among them and people are shamed further by having to talk about it in that way. Totally different to 'talking' about it freely....There's a lot more to it I know but I don't have the time right now.

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Trashy...the point.........is it that everyones personal story on the subject of child sexual abuse is entirely 'Subjective' and if I may add not something to debate but to dissuss.

 

OK

to add more...................what about all the abuse that goes on within the counselling relationship between pastor's and their flock....yep its a huge area being uncovered right now. Pastors get in house training or none at all and go forth and become sexually or/and emotionally intangled with their 'client's'. From what I've read/researched theres a remarkable difference within the 'secular' counselling services simply because of accreditation/accountablity (aust). Most xian chruches do not have it. And as I've shown some like the JW's don't want it. I think thats a very common occurance - there is no outside checks.

 

Any kind of postion of power or leadership is vulnerable to sexploitation.

 

Thanks for reading - if I've left anything out I'm sure someone will pick me up on it.

[Dianka]

I don't disagree with anyone when they say that getting a spanking or two when they were young never screwed them up.

 

But there are other children who are affected by spanking. They hold grudges against their parents, and they start pestering their parents out of spite. Eventually they end up getting spanked more often because of their behavior.

 

Whether or not a tap on the butt is abuse is up to the children. And really, we can't know whether or not we are screwing them up. Up until about the pre-teen years children do not have the self-awarness to figure out whether their parents are messing them up, and parents can't just go up to their kids and ask them.

 

I think it is a gamble that should be avoided. Children are as smart as you give them credit for. We can rationalize with them without being push-overs.

 

Have you ever seen a child's reaction when something gets taken away from them? Their whole world crumbles. But I think the best part about rationalizing with kids is that they can always regain what they have lost through good behavior. With spanking, you only hope they will learn their lesson and absolutly nothing positive comes out of it.