Autumn girl Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 I just watched these youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc-mrJf45Hg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjAegPhQOUg And then I found this: http://www.equip.org/articles/the-jesus-mysteries-was-the-original-jesus-a-pagan-god- Well, which is it!! I hate this kind of back and forth, crazy-making information. Why is there so much disagreement about this? I don't know what to think. When I was in 5th grade at my Baptist Christian elementary school, I had to do a science project. I asked my dad for help, and as usual he took over and didn't really do something that I was interested in. Instead he pretty much singlehandedly did my science project for me, and it was based on a book he had recently read called something like "The Gospel in the Stars" about the Zodiac gospel. I didn't realize then what he was espousing through my project was actually an area of great controversy. He took the view, and still does, that all of these paralells are actually signs that Jesus is actually the Messiah. It helped bolster his faith even more. Only now, as an adult, am I coming to this topic afresh and am able to see how it may actually not be seen that way. Instead, maybe it was that Jesus was created after all of these other pagan myths and astrological signs were established. Oh, and the thought that the devil was the one who counterfitted the whole thing? I'm curious how he would know about God's mighty plan, including Jesus as the Messiah, in the first place? Seriously. How would he know. And if he did know, why did God allow him to know? Wouldn't that be making it even harder for people to believe in Jesus, if the devil was then able to come up with all kinds of ways to make Jesus look like a mythical figure? That doesn't seem like a good idea to me. My head is spinning here. Trying to figure all this out. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
JadedAtheist Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Zeitgeist contains inaccurate information. It also contains accurate information. The fact that Jesus shares many similarities with other dying/rising savior gods and especially since Christianity evolved out of a culture that was at that very time swarmed with these myths leads me to conclude a great chance that it was just another one of these myths or that the original Jesus' message was lost and these elements soon took over. The whole astrological thing seems pretty dubious to me though. I think watching "The God Who Wasn't There" would be highly recommended. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=696492648668420724# This is a clip from it. Watch it from the 8 min mark. It gives a list of common elements in myths. Out of 22 marks, the Jesus myth got 19.
Ouroboros Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 I feel that I'm repeating myself since we have this discussion already in some other threads. Seems like a hot topic at the moment. It's obvious that there are concepts and ideas in Christianity that have been taken from other religions. It is clear. And it is also really simple to how it worked. The issue usually is more about how it happened. Zeitgeist and many other Jesus Mythologists believe that this "borrowing" was intentional. They make it sound like it was a scheme, a well planned and played deception. But I think the evidence doesn't support that. It seems more like Christianity inherited pagan symbols and ideas through simple cultural influence. Who were the first Christians? Jews. What belief did they have before they became Christians? They were Jewish. And not only Jewish, but of different kinds of Jewish. Their backgrounds were different kinds of both cults and mainstream Jewish faith. Consider also that they didn't have any books written down at that time and the religion spread by word-of-mouth, and there were very little known what was the right dogma, isn't it obvious that people would bring parts of their Jewish belief into the new religion? The second generation of early Christians were Jews in the diaspora. They were hellenized Jews who lived outside of Israel. They were already mixing Greek and Roman culture and belief into their Jewish belief, and here they now converted to yet another religion without proper documentation of what they were supposed to believe. Of course they would bring along their old ideas and culture. Then the next generation of early Christians were Romans. Did they just convert to Christianity without baggage? I don't think so. Some of them came from Mithraism, some from Egyptian religion, some from pagan of other kinds, etc... Whatever they came from, they had something to bring to the table. Then they started to realize they needed to write down the story about Jesus. So isn't it rather obvious that the story would be a potluck of ideas? And yet this happened a long time before the push for an orthodox religion came about. The merger was already underway. All this could actually be explained in evolutionary terms too, but I leave that for another time.
Autumn girl Posted October 24, 2010 Author Posted October 24, 2010 Zeitgeist contains inaccurate information. It also contains accurate information. The fact that Jesus shares many similarities with other dying/rising savior gods and especially since Christianity evolved out of a culture that was at that very time swarmed with these myths leads me to conclude a great chance that it was just another one of these myths or that the original Jesus' message was lost and these elements soon took over. The whole astrological thing seems pretty dubious to me though. I think watching "The God Who Wasn't There" would be highly recommended. http://video.google....92648668420724# This is a clip from it. Watch it from the 8 min mark. It gives a list of common elements in myths. Out of 22 marks, the Jesus myth got 19. What inaccurate information does the Zeitgeist video show? Funny you mentioned The God Who Wasn't There. I happen to have that DVD from Netflix right now and watched it yesterday too. It was pretty good, but he seemed to angry about his past to me. The Zeitgeist videos on youtube seemed equally compelling, if not more so. My favorite part of The God Who Wasn't There was when he had that older man who wrote about folktales and he read from his book, and yes, the 19 marks that Jesus myth got. Wow. That was sure never talked about in church or in my Christian schools growing up!
JadedAtheist Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 Besides what Ouroboros mentioned, the film also states some things as absolute fact when there is no reliable evidence. Off the top of my head I think he says that Horus had 12 disciples like Jesus and performed miracles et cetera. No source I've read says any of this. I think I was reading somewhere that one book contains that information and that book is known to be dubious (probably the almighty Wikipedia). I didn't bother looking up everything but I wouldn't be surprised if further inaccurate information like that was found. It seems awfully obvious that the writer has an agenda and it's masking his clarity of vision when coming to the facts.
Ouroboros Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 I haven't watched the Zeitgeist movie in a while. He made a new version of it some time ago and changed some things. Since I'm too lazy to watch it again, does it still claim that Buddha was resurrected too?
user_0168486295 Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 The Zeitgeist movie made a number of connections between Jesus and many other sun gods that simply were not well researched, or were presented in such a way that made a bit of a stretch. It almost seems to do everything to discredit Jesus as much as possible. In doing so, it discredits itself. Better to be as honest and as objective as possible.
Ouroboros Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 In doing so, it discredits itself. Better to be as honest and as objective as possible. Yes. I think that's the main point. There are connections for sure between Christianity and paganism. There are truths in the movie, but by trying so hard to over-kill it, the effects easily produce the opposite effect, and instead of helping, it is destroying the possibilities of having a balanced discussion. I see this happening a lot in politics too now. The goal is to discredit the opponent at all means, even if it requires to mix lies with truths. And what happens to a person who takes a little time investigating the claims? He or she is more likely take distance from those who make the claim, instead of joining them. Is that really a worthy goal?
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 The jewish religion is just the babylonianization of the canaanite religion.
Guest Thor Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Zeitgeist part 1 has been completely substantiated. Those who claim otherwise don't really know what they're talking about because they haven't actually done serious research. Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence The New ZEITGEIST Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_9ZyddjaM4 Astrotheology of the Ancients The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ Jesus as the Sun throughout History The Gospels: A 2nd Century Composition Truth Be Known Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZmsRUmuWU Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Antlerman Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 You must pay close attention and believe every word of from the messenger of the prophetess in the post above. If you have doubt, it is because you have latent misogynist issues. There can be no other explanation for not believing! If you read or hear anything that you question, be assured it is because you HATE WOMEN. That's right! The scholarship is beyond question. No legitimate scholar would question such a great person who has done so much for the world!! Your criticisms show your ignorance and your HATRED OF WOMEN (even if you're a woman yourself! There can be no exceptions to this). Believe and embrace the Holy Prophetess, or you shall be branded an ignorant heretic who HATES WOMEN. Her messenger has spoken above! Let's the words of their truth burn your eyes out: Behold the words of the messenger herself: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/41995-american-atheist-plagiarizes-acharyas-work/page__view__findpost__p__618244 Does anyone have the number of a good deprogramming center they'd care to post?
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