Guest ephymeris Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 So I've tried coming out as an ex-c to my mom before and it didn't go well for several reasons, ended in my half-assed placating her with obvious lies she wanted to believe. My mom can't handle that I may not agree with her (super conservative & christian) political and religious beliefs but yesterday I posted a quote from the Rally to Restore Sanity and her reply to it seemed to want to re-open this conversation (or at least convey her opinion) and I tried to "take the bait" tentatively. Here's the beginning of the convo so far: Me: “If we amplify everything we hear nothing...Not being able to distinguish between real racists and Tea Partiers or real bigots and Juan Williams and Rick Sanchez is an insult...Just as the inability to distinguish terrorists from Muslims makes us less safe not more. The press is our immune system. If we overreact to everything we actually get sicker and perhaps eczema.” -John Stewart at The Rally to Restore Sanity Mom: Inflammatory speech brings out the worst in mankind. Discussion and polite disgreement are essential for democracy. Making disagreements personal leads to nothing. Of course, if you are related it truly is personal - that is another matter. Will you pass your beliefs on to your children and the big question: will they accept your beliefs? Interesting thought. :-) Me: This speech was aimed at the fear-mongering news media on the left and right. Using fear to drive up ratings and sow discord is detrimental to our government and society. As for passing my beliefs on to my kids...that's not my goal, I want to pass on the skills for independent thought and love them regardless of the choices and paths they take :-) Not the most direct route, I know, but I'm just trying a less confrontational tack than I did last time with hopes that this can go down as a civilized conversation. My mom tends to love the idea of me more than the actual me so this is hard for her to accept. We'll see what happens...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 Nice civil beginning. Maybe you could segway into "I'd like to have a serious discussion with you about religion and I'd like to keep it polite and avoid inflammatory remarks. Are you willing to do that?", or something along those lines. Good luck!
mwc Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 I dunno. If your mom likes the "idea of you" instead the real you then maybe just pulling the band-aid off with one good yank would be the better way to go? Just get it over with instead of dragging it out? It already looks, to me, that she has missed the point you were already trying to make. Prolonging this talk only invites more opportunity for these misunderstandings. mwc
ilovemybrain Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 My mom tends to love the idea of me more than the actual me so this is hard for her to accept. OMG I know EXACTLY what you mean!! My dad is SO much the same way with me. He (and mom) have never really wanted to know me. They have a certain image of me, and of their relationship with me, and THAT is shattered now. So they think I'm so different, and I'm not the daughter they used to know and love. But like I said, they've never ever tried to know me. My husband knows me, and he can see I'm no different than I've always been. Ugh...anyway, best of luck with that. I've always said I'd rather be rejected for who I am than accepted for who I'm not. (I'm not trying to plagiarize - that may be some famous quote I absorbed by osmosis from somewhere).
foolish girl Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 I lifted your John Stewart quote for my FB status, I like it . It is a good point, and I agree it does make a nice segway. It seems like, in this conversation, you have just been yourself with her. Not "in your face"- just honest, and that is commendable. Beware downward spirals
Guest ephymeris Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 I dunno. If your mom likes the "idea of you" instead the real you then maybe just pulling the band-aid off with one good yank would be the better way to go? Just get it over with instead of dragging it out? It already looks, to me, that she has missed the point you were already trying to make. Prolonging this talk only invites more opportunity for these misunderstandings. mwc Eh I already tried that route on my initial attempt. She point blank asked me if I was christian and conservative and I said no on both accounts. The "conversation" that occurred immediately after was emotionally disasterous for both of us. I don't think our relationship has recovered 100% even now and that was about 2 years ago...Once my mom passes a certain point emotionally, it's impossible to recover the conversation or idea so I think I need to just let this evolve gently and naturally. She strives to exude the image of a perfect southern christian family (even though we're not) and so she will do anything to hang on to the facade.
mwc Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 Eh I already tried that route on my initial attempt. She point blank asked me if I was christian and conservative and I said no on both accounts. The "conversation" that occurred immediately after was emotionally disasterous for both of us. I don't think our relationship has recovered 100% even now and that was about 2 years ago...Once my mom passes a certain point emotionally, it's impossible to recover the conversation or idea so I think I need to just let this evolve gently and naturally. She strives to exude the image of a perfect southern christian family (even though we're not) and so she will do anything to hang on to the facade. Ah. Understood. Good luck to you then. mwc
Guest Marty Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 Hey, how do I embed a video in my reply, I couldn't figure it out. This video is what I thought of when I read the OP...
Guest ephymeris Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 LOL Marty that vid is perfect! Yes I love the new filter controls on my facebook, it blocks my entire family from seeing anything I don't want to have to explain!
Vixentrox Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I came out to my parents as an atheist when they sent me some Christian chain email. I went off and sent them a bunch of bible verses with saracastic comments and the like attached to them. Choice ones like being happy about dashing baby's skulls in, hating your family to follow Jesus and the like.
★ Citsonga ★ Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I came out to my parents as an atheist when they sent me some Christian chain email. I went off and sent them a bunch of bible verses with saracastic comments and the like attached to them. Choice ones like being happy about dashing baby's skulls in, hating your family to follow Jesus and the like. And how did they respond? I suspect that the "hate your family" quote got the "it's hyperbole" response, eh? In all fairness, I'm not so sure it wasn't (but not so sure it was either). I'd really like to know what they said about "happy is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." What a lovely praise & worship song!
Vixentrox Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Well as you an imagine, a lot of the stuff they never even heard of and said I did not know what I was talking about or the old stand by "you took it out of context". But really once I said I was an atheist it just all downhill. I essentially a pariah. I'm fine with that. I don't need them or their evil god in my life. It's a tenuous relationship. They for example, wont send me a birthday present. My brother won't say thank you, when I send him and his kids clothes and shoes since he is unemployed and lost his house.
HRDWarrior Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Eph, obviously I have no idea how that conversation 2 years ago went down with your mother, but if she's anything like my mom, I can imagine (my mother is also extremely emotional, and very, very good at frustrating everyone around her into placating her, at least eventually). You clearly want to preserve some kind of relationship with your mother/parents, which is good - on the other hand, however, I think you really need to consider how they are treating you in this situation. You are being pushed to lie and hide just to "save" some misconception your mother wants to hold onto. There is nothing about that that is good for your relationship. A bad relationship based on truth is a thousand times better than a good relationship based on lies...at least it's honest, and people know where they stand. I get the impression that your mum, much like mine, is almost impossible to have a decent conversation regarding these matters with - I imagine that things are often turned around, made into personal attacks (even if no logical person would ever see it as such) and eventually go down the road of it being your fault that she is hurt by these things, and it's your fault (or some variation of the same theme). In my experience, there is only one good way to deal with these kinds of people, and that is to NOT engage them in an open conversation. Take some time, and write out exactly what you need to say. Beating around the bush and trying to ease into it are not going to help you in the long run - all it means is that she has won yet again. If you don't care about being her doormat, then continue with your current trends...but if you're tired of being in that position, tired of always placating her, then it's time to stand up to her. For myself, doing this over the phone or in person would never have worked because as soon as things started, it would have been turned around into something else, and the conversation would never go where I wanted. That's why you stick to writing. It gives you time to consider your response and what you need to say - time to get past the emotional blackmail, and deal with things as they are. Write it out lovingly, but be honest and straight forward, too. I would highly recommend saying that you will only be responding to this subject via email until further notice (that way, she can't call 5 minutes later and corner you into changing everything you just said). It may require turning off your phone, and ignoring her on FB for awhile, but eventually she will most likely get over it. If she doesn't, it's not your fault. Just because someone can't handle the truth, does not make it the fault of the truth-bearer. Your mom's ideal little world, much like my mother's, needs to be shattered for YOUR sake, and for your family. Deal with her via email for awhile. Set a rule for yourself that you won't respond to any email without at least X amount of time (a day or so) to think about your response. Don't allow your emotions to become too involved, and things will go much better. Since your mum isn't used to you putting your foot down (which is rather obvious with this entire situation), the first time is going to be rough. She's going to be upset, mad, throw a hissy fit, "break down," threaten and who know what else. Just like a child throwing a temper tantrum, ignore her. It's nothing more than an adults version of throwing themselves on the floor in the middle of the store kicking and screaming because they didn't get what they wanted. Let her throw her little tantrum, and ignore her until she quits. If she sends nasty emails (because you're ignoring her FB and phone calls), delete them and go vent elsewhere (hubby, here, the dog, whatever). Don't fall for her tricks, and don't allow yourself to get entangled in her emotional mess. Make her deal with it, and quite being her buffer. She's an adult, she can learn to get over herself. Once she is able to respond civilly by email, then you can consider phone and FB conversations again, but be sure that there are some clear boundries. She's going to try to break the rules, and sometimes you'll find that you've allowed her to break the rules - when that happens, nicely say hey, we've been discussing such-and-such, but I had put that off limits, and we really need to stop, I'm done discussing that again....or just end the conversation on those topics/directions. I had to keep religion off topic for several months with my mother, and that went relatively well once she was over the initial fit. The big topic with her now is my father (they're divorced) and I realized I've been letting her get away with it - so I need to stop it. We cannot expect them to stop it on their own - we need to take the initiative. You're going to have to be straight forward with your mom - and distance yourself from the situation at the same time. Hand or email written letters are one of the best ways to do this in situations where face-to-face and phone simply don't work. If you don't get emotionally tangled, then it is far less likely to have a long term affect on your relationship with your mom. She'll get mad, and either she will grow up and get over or she won't, but at least you will know that it's not because of anything you did to her....she may blame you, but at no point did you harm her other than what she has made up in her own mind - which you have NO control over.
Voice Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I'll describe the behaviors of my brother and my mom (both non-christians) toward the religious in my family. It's been an effective strategy with some (me and my dad) but not with all. At every pompous buzz phrase or mindless behavior, they simply roll their eyes and detach. They don't feed it in any way nor do they validate it by trying to argue against it. They never share their own beliefs with a christian, family or otherwise. They know it's pointless. The christian has to come around before that conversation can take place.
Legion Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Ephy the solution for this is obvious. You should dump whoever you are with and hang out with me. You could show me off to your mom as I wear my best suit and I could dazzle her with my fantastic impression of a good Christian conservative. It's nearly impossible to tell from the real thing. That way you can reassure her that although you yourself are not Christian and conservative, you value those who are. This might entail that I cut my ponytail off though.
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