Christards Are Narcissistic

[par4dcourse]

Foolish girl posted a great video on the grandeur of the universe here, and it got me thinking: xians are so self-centered.

 

To elaborate: Everything in xianity revolves around the I. My soul, my salvation, my relationship with jebus, my sins, my thoughts and prayers, my wants, my words, and my adherence to outdated tradition. Prayers for others are a sign of my devotion. Helping others helps me get a good seat for the afterlife.

 

Why would any sane person believe that one insignificant human on one average planet circling an average star in a galaxy of billions of stars in a universe of billions of galaxies is capable of influencing it? Just answered my own question.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Its what I always think when I hear the arguments for God based on the vastness (or fine tuning) of the universe. I can see how it could invoke a feeling that there must be some greater power behind it, or that it itself is worth of devotion and reverence. But to somehow conclude that the most sensible explanation is the Christian god (or any of our meager gods here on earth) is really quite laughable. Its saying that out of the 14 billion years and essentially infinite space of the universe the only important part is one species of one planet (spec really - a dust mote in the majesty of the Milky Way) for the last 6-10 thousand years. Really? And for the super fundamentals, its saying that God spent 5 days creating the planet earth and only one day on the whole rest of the universe. Seriously? I know its a hard perspective to grasp, to attempt to look at ourselves more objectively from the 'eyes' of the universe. But when you do you see how laughable the explanation for life in the bible really is.

[Girl of Spirit]

I discovered this streak of narcissism/self-absorption in my own deconditioning process from Christianity. It's such a "counter-intuitive" claim for the Christian to contemplate that I only worked it out by going through a phase of meditating on my own insignificance - something I was never encouraged to do as a Christian. Any insight into my own insignificance as a Christian was only in relation to my humanness in comparison to God's omnipotence etc. But at the end of the day, I was "special", I was "saved", I was "blessed," which actually served (I can now see) to foster a sense of arrogant detachment from others who on some level I believed to be less "saved" and less "blessed."

 

Also, have never actually thought of this particular logic re: creationism ("God spent 5 days creating the planet earth and only one day on the whole rest of the universe. Seriously?") but I love it!

Thanks for sharing.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

You don't even need to count the number of days to see the blatant narcissism. They believe that we were made in God's own image, that's screams narcissism. They think they're in the image of a God.....

[DesertBob]

You don't even need to count the number of days to see the blatant narcissism. They believe that we were made in God's own image, that's screams narcissism. They think they're in the image of a God.....

In fairness, it depends on what you really mean by "created in the image of". Some Christians simply feel it means we have certain attributes in common with God, such as the possession of a conscience / sense of right and wrong. That is no more inherently narcissistic than saying that we are like our parents in certain ways.

 

That said, I agree that there is plenty of me-centered arrogance inherent in Christianity. I just don't think what you're citing is an ironclad example.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

In fairness, it depends on what you really mean by "created in the image of". Some Christians simply feel it means we have certain attributes in common with God, such as the possession of a conscience / sense of right and wrong.

That goes against the Bible which clearly stated that they didn't have knowledge of good and bad/right and wrong (or as translated, good and evil) until they ate the forbidden fruit. So they either need to blame the "fall of man" on God, or say that its as the Bible states, they were made in the image of God, or unless they can claim it has some other meaning.

 

Just a note, the OT God is anthropomorphic.

 

That is no more inherently narcissistic than saying that we are like our parents in certain ways.

 

That said, I agree that there is plenty of me-centered arrogance inherent in Christianity. I just don't think what you're citing is an ironclad example.

The hebrew text, and the rest of the OT, makes it quite clear. We were created looking like gods, and became godlike when we ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Knowing the language used for "in the image of", I'd say that even if you were right, which you could be, its still narcissistic. The image in the hebrew language was a very powerful thing.

[Vigile]

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the OP. It can be argued that xian theology is self-centered, but the vast majority of believers were indoctrinated with the belief, they weren't sold on it. Because the belief has mechanisms in it that make questioning or thinking for one's self taboo you can't argue that the structure of the belief represents the temperament of the believer. I know a lot of selfless xians. In fact, the only time I've really run into self-involved xian assholes is when they have visited this site.

[dethl]

The narcissist believes they are always right even when shown they are wrong. I grew up being raised by one and have had to deal with a co-worker with NPD.

 

http://en.wikipedia....nality_disorder

 

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the OP. It can be argued that xian theology is self-centered, but the vast majority of believers were indoctrinated with the belief, they weren't sold on it. Because the belief has mechanisms in it that make questioning or thinking for one's self taboo you can't argue that the structure of the belief represents the temperament of the believer. I know a lot of selfless xians. In fact, the only time I've really run into self-involved xian assholes is when they have visited this site.

 

 

I agree with you that there are a lot of selfless Christians, however they have been raised to believe that being selfless gets you into heaven. Even if they do not show superiority over those they help, they are still somewhat self-centered to the point of being a narcissistic trait. Of course, there are plenty of non-Christians out there that are selfless too - maybe they want to save money on taxes through donations, maybe they enjoy seeing others happy, maybe they enjoy helping those who can't help themselves? It's really about the extent as to why a person is selfless before you can brand someone a true narcissist or just having narcissistic traits.

 

Where it gets really bad is when fundamentalists decide that their way is right and everyone else is wrong - this is when you have Christians with full-blown NPD.

[dethl]

DSM-IV definition of Narcissism (via Wikipedia @ http://en.wikipedia....order#Diagnosis)

 

In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

• Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
• Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
• Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
• Rarely acknowledges mistakes and/or imperfections
• Requires excessive admiration
• Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
• Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
• Lacks empathy: is unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
• Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
• Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

[par4dcourse]

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the OP.

 

Believe as I do or MY god will strike you down!

[Vigile]

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the OP.

 

Believe as I do or MY god will strike you down!

 

Yeah, I agree, totally narcissistic belief. But what if you believe it is true? Does that make you or the belief narcissistic?

[dethl]

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the OP.

 

Believe as I do or MY god will strike you down!

 

Yeah, I agree, totally narcissistic belief. But what if you believe it is true? Does that make you or the belief narcissistic?

 

A belief only has power through the people who hold it - it's the person who is narcissistic. Until said belief is proven to be actually true the belief holds no power over those who do not hold it.

[HappyChef]

You don't even need to count the number of days to see the blatant narcissism. They believe that we were made in God's own image, that's screams narcissism. They think they're in the image of a God.....

 

Lets not forget they are programmed with the mantra"I'm nothing without jebus"The I,Me,My comes from a base need to be recognized as a good little sheep in the flock.

Combine that with the competative nature of human survival mechanisms,"My Daddy is the BEST" childishness and it's first grade all over again.

 

So Vigle,the NPD,is the software programming and not the xians themselves? I think it is a survival mechanism to combat the atmosphere of xians turning on the weak in their "flocks".

[Vigile]

 

A belief only has power through the people who hold it - it's the person who is narcissistic. Until said belief is proven to be actually true the belief holds no power over those who do not hold it.

 

Beliefs can be indoctrinated. I was indoctrinated with this belief for the first 20 or so years of my life. I had no choice in the matter. Until I grew mature enough and until I had intellectual tools at my disposal to sufficiently challenge this belief that belief had a hold on me whether I liked it or not. I didn't hold narcissistic beliefs because I was a narcissistic person, I held narcissistic beliefs because my parents chose to tell me they were true and there were no alternatives. Kids tend to believe their parents; it's a useful evolutionary trait. How then does that belief speak anything about me personally, someone who had no choice in the matter?

[Vigile]

Lets not forget they are programmed with the mantra"I'm nothing without jebus"The I,Me,My comes from a base need to be recognized as a good little sheep in the flock.

 

You raise an important point. This belief is actually quite the opposite of narcissism. Xians are taught they are mere worms but for Jesus. The religion on a whole is really quite abusive to self esteem and those who find any worthiness do so through a dependence on their abuser. Xianity is Stockholm Syndrome before it's NPD almost every time. It certainly was for me. I had horrible self esteem and felt so grateful that my abuser would make a sacrifice for lowly me. Most xians are in that category in my experience.

[par4dcourse]

Still, to believe that the creator/ruler of this vast expanse of a universe is concerned with my dietary habits and the tip of my penis is pretty self-centered.

[Vigile]

Still, to believe that the creator/ruler of this vast expanse of a universe is concerned with my dietary habits and the tip of my penis is pretty self-centered.

 

Perhaps, but only if you choose to believe that. Beliefs aren't generally choices.

[dethl]

A belief only has power through the people who hold it - it's the person who is narcissistic. Until said belief is proven to be actually true the belief holds no power over those who do not hold it.

 

Beliefs can be indoctrinated. I was indoctrinated with this belief for the first 20 or so years of my life. I had no choice in the matter. Until I grew mature enough and until I had intellectual tools at my disposal to sufficiently challenge this belief that belief had a hold on me whether I liked it or not. I didn't hold narcissistic beliefs because I was a narcissistic person, I held narcissistic beliefs because my parents chose to tell me they were true and there were no alternatives. Kids tend to believe their parents; it's a useful evolutionary trait. How then does that belief speak anything about me personally, someone who had no choice in the matter?

 

Indoctrination of a belief does not make that belief a narcissistic one. It's the attitudes around the belief but not the belief itself (like when your parents gave you no alternates....did the belief give you no alternatives or was it those around you?)

 

Kids are HIGHLY suggestible and is widely known that they can be indoctrinated in this manner - but it gives the belief no extra credence to being narcissistic - instead it is the parents who are being narcissistic in pushing their beliefs as being mandatory.

 

tl;dr - You had no choice: your parents were indoctrinated into being a narcissist regarding their beliefs and they in turn pushed the belief along with the narcissistic attitudes towards those beliefs onto you. It does a religion no good if they pushed a belief along with the idea that other religions might be correct too.

 

EDIT: Ultimately it began with a person who came up with the belief and decided to attach a narcissistic attitude to said belief in order to propagate it. Therefore I conclude that the person is the narcissist, not the belief.