LGMR Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 Back when I was a fundy, I didn't really care for prophesy. I knew that all of it was pure rubbish, but before I deconverted, a pastor convinced me that a passage in Isaiah foretold the World Trade Center being attacked and falling on Sep. 11 2001. (Yes, I know. Don't laugh.) Now I still wonder about it, because it can be made to fit. Here's the passage in question: Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon: Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant. Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit. Isa 30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. Isa 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall. I underlined the important parts. If you read the whole chapter, it's talking about judgement against Israel because they are being "rebellious, lying, listening to the Egyptian instead of god, and not following the law". (I even looked up the Hebrew word for law in verse 9. it not even ambigious, the word is torah.) Last time I checked, only a tiny percent of America follows the torah, both before and after Sep. 11th. (So much for biblegod's judgement changing people.) Of course, the guy also reinturpreted it to mean America was being judged because they're not following Jesus, and just being generally "wicked". (He brought up the fact that the US gives lots of money to Egypt today as "proof". Because it talks about listening to Egypt instead of god. You know, it may be the fact that besides Israel, Egypt is one of our closes allies in the Middle East, but I digress.) Verse 16 seems to be saying that an army will attack a city in Israel. (Not that some terroists will fly a plane into a building.) Isa 30:16 But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift. Lastly, he pulled out this verse: Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Since Billy Grahm said in a prayer after 9/11 that god doesn't create evil (Which this nutjob pastor believes he does.) BG "fulfilled" that verse. Ugh.... So, what do you guys think? Fulfilled prophesy, or total bullshit? lol.
XcaliburGirl Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 How many towers have been knocked down between Isaiah's time and now? Through the Roman empire, the middle ages, two world wars, etc. Sure, this was bigger, but at any given time a particular event can seem to be the most significant thus far. Where are the rivers and streams of water on "every" high mountain and hill? I'm sure you could find a passage in the bible that fits any situation, big or small, literally or symbolically. I'm not impressed, really.
XcaliburGirl Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 Also, I wanted to add that this sort of thing (e.g., prophesy in an ancient Hebrew text about how America needs to turn back to God) always smells to me like American Christian arrogance. This idea that America is some sort of Christian promised land that is special to God seems ridiculous, seeing the religion was started in the middle east. It's probably a topic for another thread, but even when I was a Christian I always thought it was weird that churches here were supporting missionaries to the UK, etc. What? Don't they have churches and bibles readily available there too?
★ Citsonga ★ Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 It's bullshit. If was a true prophecy of 9/11, it would be more specific and every detail would fit. Generation after generation after generation takes prophecies like this and reinterprets them to be referring to events in their era. Oh yeah, and Jesus is still coming back soon, just like he has been for generation after generation after generation after generation after....
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 Wow, that prophesy is really a stretch. This guy is focusing on just the verses that can be made to fit and ignoring the other parts. Where in 9/11 were "upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters" in Manhattan as the tower fell? Has this guy ever been to NYC? It's fairly flat and there are definitely no high mountains nearby. As Xcal said, how many towers have come down since the time this book was written? Hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands? Think of all the towers that have collapsed due to earthquakes, and many of those ARE near high mountains. Verses 13 and 14 imply that the breaking occured instantly - not true as each tower took almost an hour to fall. And that no lives were spared. Also not true, many escaped, including some who were found in the wreckage. I'd say the only correlation between these verses and 9/11 is the word "towers".
★ Citsonga ★ Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 I'd say the only correlation between these verses and 9/11 is the word "towers". ...and the fancy imagination of those who just have to try to vindicate the bible in any way possible.
mwc Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Wow. This prophecy looks legit. Seems Isaiah knew, some 2500 years ago (give or take), that this was all going to happen and wrote it all down for the benefit of no one in particular. Now we can all reflect upon it and realize that YHWH allowed the death of about 3000 people, sparking two wars (to date) and many more deaths and injuries, so that we can connect these long separated dots and know that he foresaw these events and told them to Isaiah without context all those years ago in an attempt to help no one with anything. And this assumes we've managed to put all the pieces to this vague puzzle, assuming there is even a puzzle to assemble, together properly. mwc
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