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Goodbye Jesus

Any Gods?


GiantBear

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Dear Homies,

 

I changed my profile a little bit.

 

Any Gods?

It used to say 'Just God'

Now it says 'Hope So'

 

I really do hope so.

There is so much unresolved in life. "Life isn't fair."

I want there to be a good God and a good afterlife.

 

But the whole proof thing is getting to me.

This moves me into the Agnostic category, I think. :woohoo:

 

But my desire for a good God and a good afterlife, while selfish, is healthy and it is hard for me to see how anybody else wouldn't have the same hope.

 

And certainly if there is a God, then God put that desire there. ;) God would also put my desire for discarding parts of Christianity there.

 

I've also considered living as if I have a personal relationship with God and at the same time reserving a smaller part of myself that would say "I could be wrong and there might not be any God."

 

Maybe y'all could give me some thoughts, eh? eh?

 

Peace,

GiantBear

 

Oops this probably belongs more in 'General Theological Issues.'

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GiantBear~

 

I love that you are open and are willing to change your mind if your personal convictions tell you to do so.

 

Tap :)

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I think most humans wish there was a higher or ultimate power that made us and loves us and would have us live forever in bliss. This is one of the main draws of Christianity. Here is a religion that grants you eternal life, eternal life for all of your like-minded friends, and eternal damnation and torture for your enemies!

And what must you do to recieve this?? Only believe! No castration, no circumcision, and no difficult rituals or behavioral requirements. Works are desired but not required, and you don't have to give up all and become a missionary. Is it any wonder it (eventually) became poplular??

But, just because it is desirable doesn't make it true. So I can appreciate your new stance. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. Or maybe God will be a tyrant like the God of the O.T. We might even be cosmic lab rats.

Whatever the case, I wish us all good luck.

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I can empathize. I hope there is to. Life is so fleeting but it also has moments that feel very profound. This come home to me deeply last month when I lost my best friend to cancer. I want there to be more meaning than just memories. That said, I don't believe there is a god. Some find that thought comforting, but I honestly don't.

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Look at the world. Follow your gut.

 

That's the best any of us can do. The 'God question' as it's been called is a personal choice. It's not something we can know... no evidence for or against.

 

We'll still love you either way. :)

 

Merlin

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God or just maybe a perpetual existance?

 

I can't see every human, and only humans, getting any spark of life that any other creature wouldn't have too. You can see it from all beings that have eyes, looking into their eyes shows the life, we can assume those without eyes must have some sort of sensations, just not the full gambit.

 

So where does the life spirit come from, or go to? And what makes it so unique to the life? Could there be spirits unique to each and every existance? Or is it recycled?

 

We may not fully remember any previous incarnations, but we do get some strange feelings.. not necessarily from human existance, and would only remember or have glimpses of those that have more than just a bug's life. Either way, the pool is pretty big, larger than we can easily imagine.. but not being unique to each, not infinite or continually being created. Everything else seems to be recycled, what would make 'us' any different.

 

If the sum total of all that is of the universe is considered to be God, that doesn't make God a personification. Humans are just individually a mere spec of dust on a grain of sand on the beach. Earth is just a spec of dust on the sun's beach.

 

The human brain is not fully known to us, but it is, just what it is.

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It's fine to hope. Honestly I think there could be something out there. It's just not the Christian god, or any gods of any other religions on earth.

 

So where does the life spirit come from, or go to? And what makes it so unique to the life? Could there be spirits unique to each and every existance? Or is it recycled?

 

How do we know a life spirit exists? Nobody's proven that yet. No scientists have been able to prove whether anyone has a soul. It'd be nice if there were and we were reincarnated (hey, I like that idea better than Christian heaven), but there's still no proof.

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You should believe what you feel you must. If you really strongly desire to believe in a God, then do so--but don't fool yourself into thinking that you can conclude that God exists just from that. It's perfectly acceptable in my book to worship something while holding back in another area of your mind from certainty about its existence. I actually did that during the latter period of my Christianity. I could have stayed there indefinitely, but I want something more than just comfort.

 

Others, I'm sure, differ. And that's just fine.

 

As I've said elsewhere, I'm a panentheist, by my own formulation of what the word means. I believe that yes, there is a God, insofar as there is something uniquely transcendent of this world. I don't think it's understandable in its entirety by the human mind. I don't anthropomorphize this God with feelings of mercy, guilt, happiness... it's not all that comforting on that level. I take quite seriously the idea that any God would have to be utterly transcendent.

 

But I concluded that no God could really be in any final sense separate from this "created" world. (I won't bother you with the details of that line of reasoning.) This world is a subset of the greater entity. And we can understand plenty about this world.

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Everybody,

 

Thanks for all the nice posts. :) All open, honest, insightful and empathetic.

 

I also was thinking that, afterlife aside, life can be pretty lonely here without a God. My best friend moved and my other friends are getting married. I have no girlfriend. I can't visit my mom too often. When I do, a psychotic family member is often there making it unbearable. I have good friends at work, but......well....they don't have sex with me. Maybe I just want to get married. :)

And I know it's much lonelier for many people in the world than for me.

I want to think that God is with everybody while temporarily concealing himself.

 

I'm not too worried about God being a tyrant, if he exists. If there is a God, then he gave me my morals and follows them much better than I do.

 

Another thing I was thinking, is that it is very weird to pray without a 100% belief in God. The "all or nothing" thing is hard to get around.

 

Peace,

GiantBear

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Another thing I was thinking, is that it is very weird to pray without a 100% belief in God. The "all or nothing" thing is hard to get around.

 

Peace,

GiantBear

 

Well, as an avowed atheist I can tell you I'm 100% happier with no gods - few of them are very pleasant entities. I'd hate to find out Shiva or Zeus were real, any more than biblegod.

 

But as far as an afterlife? I move a little closer to agnostic on that one. Just because I'm convinced there are no 'old men in the sky' doesn't mean I think we have all the answers. There's so much that we don't understand. Between quantum mechanics, string theory, multiverses and the like, who can say?

 

I haven't given up all hope on some kind of continued existence of our consciousness completely just because we have no evidence of it. I mean, there's a chance we exist right now in some kind of parallel universe. And the nature of time is still a mystery - is it cyclical? Does the universe 'recycle' itself through the big bang/contraction? Are we destined to all get another ride, even if it takes millions of centuries? :shrug:

 

We're a long way from the fat lady singing, I can tell you that! :sing:

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As I've said elsewhere, I'm a panentheist, by my own formulation of what the word means. I believe that yes, there is a God, insofar as there is something uniquely transcendent of this world. I don't think it's understandable in its entirety by the human mind. I don't anthropomorphize this God with feelings of mercy, guilt,  happiness... it's not all that comforting on that level. I take quite seriously the idea that any God would have to be utterly transcendent.

 

But I concluded that no God could really be in any final sense separate from this "created" world. (I won't bother you with the details of that line of reasoning.) This world is a subset of the greater entity. And we can understand plenty about this world.

 

This really resonates with me, Ken. I'd love to hear more about this... feel free to PM me with all your thoughts.

 

Although, just for the record, I do disagree with the first paragraph. Knew that had to happen! :HaHa:

 

Merlin

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Dear Homies,

 

I changed my profile a little bit.

 

Any Gods?

It used to say 'Just God'

Now it says 'Hope So'

 

It would be nice. I also want a million dollars.

 

I really do hope so.

There is so much unresolved in life. "Life isn't fair."

I want there to be a good God and a good afterlife.

 

Make it 10 or 100 million. Fuck, I want to live in Europe off the interest.

 

But the whole proof thing is getting to me.

This moves me into the Agnostic category, I think.  :woohoo:

 

Even if science proved it -- could you? From what we do know about the natural universe, we can make some educated guesses, but to default back to "their view" just because they have an old book that justifies genocide and sexism -- besides saying, "God made it, you believe it, or else!"

 

Science doesn't have all the answers -- at least, not yet. But, I think they're a tad bit more reliable than Pat Robertson or the local pederast passing off as a Roman Catholic priest. Besides, they've discovered the nature of disease, the migration of the continents (and of humans), and mapped a few galaxies -- yeah, I think I trust 'em.

 

But my desire for a good God and a good afterlife, while selfish, is healthy and it is hard for me to see how anybody else wouldn't have the same hope.

 

And certainly if there is a God, then God put that desire there. ;) God would also put my desire for discarding parts of Christianity there.

 

I've also considered living as if I have a personal relationship with God and at the same time reserving a smaller part of myself that would say "I could be wrong and there might not be any God."

 

Maybe y'all could give me some thoughts, eh? eh?

 

Peace,

GiantBear

 

Oops this probably belongs more in 'General Theological Issues.'

Okay, what I really want is for the Mega Millions Lotto to go up to $500 million dollars, and then win the whole thing by myself. Then, I'll just buy my own damn island off the coast of Italy, and pretend I'm Dickie Greenleaf.

 

I have nice dreams, too -- but wanting them doesn't make them real. Do what I did -- have a nice big cry, get over yourself (and your desire for immortality), and get on with your life. It works -- believe me.

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Okay, what I really want is for the Mega Millions Lotto to go up to $500 million dollars, and then win the whole thing by myself. Then, I'll just buy my own damn island off the coast of Italy, and pretend I'm Dickie Greenleaf.

 

I want to win the Powerball this weekend. It's up to 290 million and something. Heck, it'll probably be over 300 million when everyone buys tickets. I'd buy myself a house in a nice, quiet neighborhood. But I wouldn't be around most of the time, because I'd be travelling overseas, visiting all the places I've wanted to see. And I'd be shopping in the local bookstore and electronics store when I wasn't travelling.

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It would be nice.  I also want a million dollars.

Make it 10 or 100 million.  Fuck, I want to live in Europe off the interest.

Even if science proved it -- could you?  From what we do know about the natural universe, we can make some educated guesses, but to default back to "their view" just because they have an old book that justifies genocide and sexism -- besides saying, "God made it, you believe it, or else!"

 

Science doesn't have all the answers -- at least, not yet.  But, I think they're a tad bit more reliable than Pat Robertson or the local pederast passing off as a Roman Catholic priest.  Besides, they've discovered the nature of disease, the migration of the continents (and of humans), and mapped a few galaxies -- yeah, I think I trust 'em.

Okay, what I really want is for the Mega Millions Lotto to go up to $500 million dollars, and then win the whole thing by myself.  Then, I'll just buy my own damn island off the coast of Italy, and pretend I'm Dickie Greenleaf.

 

I have nice dreams, too -- but wanting them doesn't make them real.  Do what I did -- have a nice big cry, get over yourself (and your desire for immortality), and get on with your life.  It works -- believe me.

 

You're very wrong.

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I have nice dreams, too -- but wanting them doesn't make them real.  Do what I did -- have a nice big cry, get over yourself (and your desire for immortality), and get on with your life.  It works -- believe me.

 

I was so scared what my life would be like without God, and you know what? It's about the same. Slightly better in some ways, slightly worse in others, but I am happy that I don't believe the lie anymore.

 

And it is not like athieism is an empty hole in your heart. I still have the will to live. I believe that after people deconvert, they have more respect for the truth as it is.

 

 

You're very wrong.

 

How could you possibly make that assessment?

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I look at it like a Venn Diagram. The JudeoChristian beliefs are a very small subset and they all intersect at various points. Then there's the big picture, understanding where it came from, why our ancestors believed what they did, and how it no longer fulfills the curiosity of many of those over 8 in today's day and age.

 

Some peole live fine without it, others go off the deap end, but each is a sum total of their choices. Our body is a FIFO and GIGO, you are what you eat (some friend's call me a pussy, hmm.. fine with me).

 

What comes around goes around, or is it what goes around comes around? isn't a law of spite and karma, it's just us fulfilling a need to make things into 100% when we only may have 5 or 10% information, we just naturally fill in the rest. Some take it as the 100% and reject all new data, others make their assumptions and modify as necessary.

 

There's 2 ways to see things, as they are, or as you wish them to be.

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I still have many things to live for. My lifelong dream of having a novel published (and being successful at it), seeing the world, etc. These are the same goals, only I realize now that no invisible friend is going to wave a magic wand and say "here you go, instant success" or "here you go, instant wealth." (Now watch, I'll win the Powerball, lol.)

 

But seriously, if I want to go on that dream cruise, I have to save money for it. Someday, I'll have enough money saved up and a job where I can take that week or two of vacation time and go.

 

If I want to have a novel published, I need to hone my writing skills and write something that could get published. But it's not impossible. I know people who have done it, and they weren't rich.

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You're very wrong.

 

Prove it. prove it without the bible. That book cannot be proven to be inspired by god by any evidence outside its own pages.

 

You have no place to tell anyone they are wrong about anything. Get a washcloth and go stroke your little ego in the bathroom. Not here.

 

:jerkoff:

 

Keep the Holy Goo(ghost?) off the computer screen please.

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I've given up talking to God. Now that I am my own God, I talk to myself. Sometimes I even get answers.

 

Why, just this week I asked myself for a new set of golf clubs. And - bingo. There they are. Another answered prayer.

 

I just love the spiritual life.

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I've given up talking to God.  Now that I am my own God, I talk to myself.  Sometimes I even get answers.

 

Why, just this week I asked myself for a new set of golf clubs.  And - bingo.  There they are.  Another answered prayer. 

 

I just love the spiritual life.

Don't you love those instant prayer-answers? And if you don't get the answer, you usually know why too! Amazing!

 

But the best part is that I always win a discussion with God (myself)!

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You're very wrong.

Then prove it. And, like white_raven23 said, without referring to the Babble if you please. That means tangible proof. Your time starts now.

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