seeker Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm just getting into researching this but something occured to me while reading a thread here today. Was the Torah (the old testament is the Torah right??) expected to have "Volume 2" or was it supposed to be the end all holy books, one and only??? Did the original hebrews expect a new book to supercede the Old testament? It just seems odd that Christians/Catholics agree that their beliefs stemmed from the Torah yet now think they can pick and choose whats good or bad from it....since it was supposed to be "Gods word" like the New testament is. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 That's a very interesting point! According to the Jews it was complete with the Torah. And according to the Christians it was supposed to be continued with new revelations from God. And further, the Muslims consider Mohammed to have the last word. Then we have the Jehovas Witness and Mormons that want their books to be the continuation of the OT and NT. Is it time we have another revelation from God that will supercede the old books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Is it time we have another revelation from God that will supercede the old books? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, and here it is: Thus sayeth the Lord: "Remember all those old books and stuff? I was just kidding. Never mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Yes, and here it is: Thus sayeth the Lord: "Remember all those old books and stuff? I was just kidding. Never mind." See my sig-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Oh yes, your sig-line. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Actually the torah only consists of the 5 books of Moses, other books are the writings, and prophets. Nothing in these writings can undo what the torah states. The torah (meaning Law) is to endure forever, not one letter of the law is to ever change. It contains all 613 Mitzvah (commandments) Given by God to the jews. Hence why in Dut it say's.. any man claming miracles who say come lets worship another god is a test. More interesting info for ya.. Although there is not 100% agreement on the precise list of the 613 (there are some slight discrepancies in the way some lists divide related or overlapping mitzvot), there is complete agreement that there are 613 mitzvot. This number is significant: it is the numeric value of the word Torah (Tav = 400, Vav = 6, Resh = 200, Heh = 5), plus 2 for the two mitzvot whose existence precedes the Torah: "I am the LORD, your God" and "You shall have no other gods before Me". There is also complete agreement that these 613 mitzvot can be broken down into 248 positive mitzvot (one for each bone and organ of the male body) and 365 negative mitzvot (one for each day of the solar year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The Torah is just the first five books of the Bible (the books that Moses supposedly wrote... ). Moses supposedly wrote about his own death if one takes that authorship seriously... try that one on your christian friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Actually the torah only consists of the 5 books of Moses, other books are the writings, and prophets. Nothing in these writings can undo what the torah states. The torah (meaning Law) is to endure forever, not one letter of the law is to ever change. It contains all 613 Mitzvah (commandments) Given by God to the jews. Hence why in Dut it say's.. any man claming miracles who say come lets worship another god is a test. More interesting info for ya.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The septuagint as I recall are the first 5 books of moses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 The Septuagint is more than that. It's the Greek translation of all the Old Testament books from Hebrew. The OT wasn't capped, IIRC, until after the beginning of Christianity. The Jews were worried about this new cult ripping their religion apart, so they had to come to some official definitions. And that included finalizing the Jewish canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Ah. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 yeah, and on a releated note, even the Jews couldn't agree on what was considered a holy text for a long time. Durring the first century the Sadducees and Pharasies were still arguing over it. The Sadducees believed on the first 5 books (the Torah) were inspired, not the prophets or histories, while the Pharasies believed in the prophets as well. It wasn't until the 2nd or 3rd century when they cannonized the jewish bible that the argument was put to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 .......Is there promise of a savior in Torah, I don't think that there is. ....... I'll do some checking, but right off the top of my head I believe there IS a mention of SOMEONE coming to lead Israel after Moses vanishes. Is this someone The Messiah? Only if someone wants to interpret it as such. I'll have a look and see what I can find in ye olde buy-bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Serenity, I found it. Deuteronomy 18. 15 "The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 "according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.' 17 "And the Lord said to me: 'What they have spoken is good. 18 'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 'And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 'But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' 21 "And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?' 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Pay special attention to the cheating capitalizations of Prophet, Him, He. As you are most assuredly aware capitalization is a modern bible literary convention to promote the idea of Divinity. In the Hebrew script they had ONLY capital letters and NO vowels, NOR punctuations. It made for difficult and suspicious reading. Anyway, here is the mention of some PROPHET to follow Moses. NOT a direct reference of a Messiah at all. However, I have heard many apologetics claim that this IS a prophecy for Jesus. Cheerio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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