I Hate It When Christians Try To Section Off The "bad" Christians

[pk62281]

It's funny how Christians will try to detach themselves from "bad" Christians (like the douchebag pastor who threatened to burn the Quran, child molesting Catholic priests, the many many Christians in prison, etc.). They'll claim that these "bad" Christians either aren't really Christian or are corrupting the Gospel and the message of Jesus. I think it's a way for them to trim the fat, and make Christians appear better than they really are. We should never allow Christians to use that argument. It’s way too convenient of an argument to use.

 

Let's say I were to do an experiment and I want to prove to you that a certain drug will help teenagers grow taller. I give 100 random teenagers the drug and then have each of them take the drug daily for a year. After a year, I measure their height. Let’s say the average amount of growth ended up being not so different than the national norm, and the data looks like a bell curve. How do I rationalize this to you? I bullshit by saying “Oh the ones that grew the most are the ones that took the drug correctly, but the guys that didn’t grow much probably didn’t take the drug everyday, or didn’t sleep enough, or didn’t eat well, or wore too much green, or didn’t use the correct arm motion when putting the pill in their mouth, or there were too many Asian kids in the mix, or they’re lying, or too many of Danny Devito’s kids got in there, or the moons weren’t aligned correctly.” Christians do this when they try to separate themselves from “bad” Christians.

 

Christians don’t live “better” than anybody else, and some Christians will even agree. It’s true that some do, but there are also Muslims, Atheists, Jews, etc. that do as well. If there was any real power from the Gospel, there would be some difference. If you have the audacity to say that you have the correct worldview, and everyone else is wrong, there better be a fucking difference.

 

I’ve presented this argument to a Christian and one response was. “You’re right, Christians aren’t any better but the difference is that they realize they need Jesus.” If you agree that Christians aren’t any better, what do you need Jesus for? If you’re the same as everyone else, what would happen if you didn’t have Jesus? (other than the whole not going to hell thing) Are you saying that if you didn’t have Jesus you’d off yourself or fall into a drug habit or end up being a serial killer? If you give me watermelon to eat, and I couldn’t get watermelon anywhere else, I would say that in order for me to eat watermelon, I need you. But if I’m not eating watermelon anyway, what do I need you for? Haha did that analogy make any sense?

 

So confusing!!

[ilovemybrain]

No, I get what you're saying, and I agree totally. Christianity itself doesn't make christians as a group any better than anyone else, no matter what they say.

[Ro-bear]

Sure, it's annoying, but I can't really blame them. If I were a Christian, I'd do the same thing. Lots of people try to tar Christians with the deeds and words of the worst sort of Christian. Same thing happens to Muslims. And I get annoyed as hell when Christians hold up Stalin and Pol Pot as representative of atheism.

[Dibllsmek]

Life lesson #24- Bad stands out more than good.

[SirPhoenix]

Christians are very segmented. Each denomination thinks the others have it wrong in some way. The only real reason they think they are better off is because they aren't going to hell. It's a whole lot easier to swallow all da rulez if you think that after you die you'll wake up in paradise while your neighbor will end up in burning in agony. I will laugh my ass off if I wake up in an afterlife that turns out to kick ass, and I'm there with all the fundies, atheists, budists, wiccans, etc. that I know. The cosmic joke will be how the fundies did't get laid as much as they could have.

[FinallyFree]

The cosmic joke will be how the fundies did't get laid as much as they could have.

 

 

lolololol!!!!!

 

 

[excalvinist]

Reminds me of a comment I read on facebook the other day by a fundy

 

They said "I cannot imagine dealing with the trails and tragedies of life with out the Lord"

 

My reply " Millions of people all over the world deal with trials and tragedies in a healthy way, and they are not fundamentalist Christians".

 

Makes you wonder how much more this person would be fucked in the head without there religion crutch.

[george caitlin]

Pk, you've hit on a pet peeve of mine.

 

It really irks me when an example of a really loathsome Christian is brought up in discussions (Ted Swaggert, David Koresh, pedophile priests, that hate-filled minister from Kansas) and the Christians roll their eyes and say, "Oh no, he's not a REAL Christian - REAL Christians wouldn't do something like that".

 

Sort of a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for them, isn't it? (At the same time, those same dissembling Christians are the first to claim that all atheists, or Muslims, or any other group they dislike are monolithic in their thoughts and deeds.) I always reply to these denying Christian hypocrites, "Hey, this sad excuse of a human being worships your Jesus, reads your bible, attends the same churches you do, and professes to be a Christian. Embrace him - he's one of yours".

[Vomit Comet]

I think it goes all the way back to the beginning of Protestantism when they were trying to distance themselves from the crimes of the Catholic Church. Of course, many Protestants ended up being just as fucked up! The Thirty Year War, Cromwell's genocide in Ireland, etc. etc. etc.

[Vixentrox]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

[Jedah]

The cosmic joke will be how the fundies did't get laid as much as they could have.

 

 

[Vomit Comet]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

 

What do you mean by Muslim? Somebody who takes that shit seriously enough to be an asshole? Or someone who simply happens to come from the Muslim world?

[Ro-bear]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

 

 

You could substitute any noun for "Muslims" in your sentence and it would hold as well.

 

 

Like I said, I don't blame people for disowning the worst of their broad category. You would do the same damn thing. Let's say you are a stockbroker. You might not deny that unscrupulous stockbrokers are real stockbrokers, but if you are a scrupulous stockbroker and know many other scrupulous stockbrokers, you will defend your profession and say not all stockbrokers are bad. Anyone would. So why cry foul when Christians do it? Or Muslims?

 

I know lots of Christians who are good people, as good as anyone I know. Why try to paint them all with the same brush?

[Sybaris]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

 

 

You could substitute any noun for "Muslims" in your sentence and it would hold as well.

 

 

Like I said, I don't blame people for disowning the worst of their broad category.

 

I agree, everyone culls the bad apple from the barrel. Today will be a good example when familial gossip will indicate that the dysfunction is on "that side of the family".

 

There are no bad (insert religion) people, there are just bad people who use their religion to justify their behavior.

[Moxie]

This wreck-less defense of Christianity is what repels me from religion.

[pk62281]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

 

 

You could substitute any noun for "Muslims" in your sentence and it would hold as well.

 

 

Like I said, I don't blame people for disowning the worst of their broad category. You would do the same damn thing. Let's say you are a stockbroker. You might not deny that unscrupulous stockbrokers are real stockbrokers, but if you are a scrupulous stockbroker and know many other scrupulous stockbrokers, you will defend your profession and say not all stockbrokers are bad. Anyone would. So why cry foul when Christians do it? Or Muslims?

 

I know lots of Christians who are good people, as good as anyone I know. Why try to paint them all with the same brush?

 

I see your point, but I still think there's a difference. A lot of Christians claim that they have Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit living within in them, and that there is supposedly fruit that comes with it. That fruit is supposed to be evidence of their Faith. In a way they claim that they live better lives, but then they also admit they don't live any better....AAHHHHH! I'm confused again.

 

If you were a stockbrocker and someone criticized bad stockbrokers, would you say those stockbrokers weren't real stockbrokers? Or that they weren't interpreting the stockbroker code of conduct correctly? No, you would just say they were dishonest/bad people who happened to be stockbrokers. You wouldn't ever claim that being a stockbroker makes you a better person. Christians claim that believing in Jesus changes you, and when then you shrewdly point out the many examples of how it doesn't make any difference. One of the ways they try to get out of it is by distancing themselves.

 

I'm just trying to point out the ridiculousness of their argument.

[pk62281]

 

I know lots of Christians who are good people, as good as anyone I know. Why try to paint them all with the same brush?

 

I never tried to paint them all as bad, or not good, nor am I trying to generalize. If you were to somehow quantify the goodness of Christians, you would see a bell curve not until the general population. However, Christians claim that they are being changed for the better, and when you point out how that doesn't seem to be the case. They distance themselves from those people by saying they're not true Christians.

[JadedAtheist]

You have a good point, PK. I remember realizing that the Christians I see in my church, and other churches are no different morally than the population in general. Except maybe they didn't cuss as much. This realization was yet another nail in the coffin.

[Ro-bear]

 

I know lots of Christians who are good people, as good as anyone I know. Why try to paint them all with the same brush?

 

I never tried to paint them all as bad, or not good, nor am I trying to generalize. If you were to somehow quantify the goodness of Christians, you would see a bell curve not until the general population. However, Christians claim that they are being changed for the better, and when you point out how that doesn't seem to be the case. They distance themselves from those people by saying they're not true Christians.

 

 

Well, my response was intended for Vixentrox, who seems to want to steer the thread toward criticizing those who "defend Muslims".

 

Sometimes, one has to defend people one does not agree with.

[george caitlin]

It's funny when you see the same thing except you have people defending Muslims using the same arguments that christards use to defend their own.

 

 

You could substitute any noun for "Muslims" in your sentence and it would hold as well.

 

 

Like I said, I don't blame people for disowning the worst of their broad category. You would do the same damn thing. Let's say you are a stockbroker. You might not deny that unscrupulous stockbrokers are real stockbrokers, but if you are a scrupulous stockbroker and know many other scrupulous stockbrokers, you will defend your profession and say not all stockbrokers are bad. Anyone would. So why cry foul when Christians do it? Or Muslims?

 

I know lots of Christians who are good people, as good as anyone I know. Why try to paint them all with the same brush?

 

I see your point, but I still think there's a difference. A lot of Christians claim that they have Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit living within in them, and that there is supposedly fruit that comes with it. That fruit is supposed to be evidence of their Faith. In a way they claim that they live better lives, but then they also admit they don't live any better....AAHHHHH! I'm confused again.

 

If you were a stockbrocker and someone criticized bad stockbrokers, would you say those stockbrokers weren't real stockbrokers? Or that they weren't interpreting the stockbroker code of conduct correctly? No, you would just say they were dishonest/bad people who happened to be stockbrokers. You wouldn't ever claim that being a stockbroker makes you a better person. Christians claim that believing in Jesus changes you, and when then you shrewdly point out the many examples of how it doesn't make any difference. One of the ways they try to get out of it is by distancing themselves.

 

I'm just trying to point out the ridiculousness of their argument.

 

 

Exactly. Many Christians want to play both sides of the fence. They want to be able to broadly stereotype people when they are criticizing their perceived opposition (atheists, liberals, Muslims, humanists) but then want to differentiate between specific individuals when it comes to the actions of their own disreputable co-religionists. Please, exhibit just a bit of consistency and logic, Christians.

[wannabewriterB]

PK,

 

It annoys me too. I loved the "it better make a fucking difference" line because that cuts to the heart of it, I think! Christians claim to have a unique insight into morality, but why aren't Christians as a whole -substantialy- more moral than the rest of the world? I mean, its like having the answers to a test in advance. You know what "God" wants you to do - so just do it! The rest of us are out here struggling making decisions on *gasp* our own!

 

Its like all the Bible stories where the Isrealites SEE God and HEAR God and are told EXACTLY what to do by God, but what do they do??? They still decide to do other things. They "sin" all over the place! I keep thinking God must not be very persuasive, even with all the slaughtering and the booming voice and stuff.

[Moxie]

PK,

 

It annoys me too. I loved the "it better make a fucking difference" line because that cuts to the heart of it, I think! Christians claim to have a unique insight into morality, but why aren't Christians as a whole -substantialy- more moral than the rest of the world? I mean, its like having the answers to a test in advance. You know what "God" wants you to do - so just do it! The rest of us are out here struggling making decisions on *gasp* our own!

 

Its like all the Bible stories where the Isrealites SEE God and HEAR God and are told EXACTLY what to do by God, but what do they do??? They still decide to do other things. They "sin" all over the place! I keep thinking God must not be very persuasive, even with all the slaughtering and the booming voice and stuff.

 

 

Agreed.

 

The problem is, Christians will respond with, "But God knows we're human."

My response to that is: Well if you're human, then claim your humanness and stop trying to claim you're something other than human, because as long as you say you are a Christian, you are claiming to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

[Leinad89]

It's funny how Christians will try to detach themselves from "bad" Christians (like the douchebag pastor who threatened to burn the Quran, child molesting Catholic priests, the many many Christians in prison, etc.). They'll claim that these "bad" Christians either aren't really Christian or are corrupting the Gospel and the message of Jesus. I think it's a way for them to trim the fat, and make Christians appear better than they really are. We should never allow Christians to use that argument. It’s way too convenient of an argument to use.

 

Let's say I were to do an experiment and I want to prove to you that a certain drug will help teenagers grow taller. I give 100 random teenagers the drug and then have each of them take the drug daily for a year. After a year, I measure their height. Let’s say the average amount of growth ended up being not so different than the national norm, and the data looks like a bell curve. How do I rationalize this to you? I bullshit by saying “Oh the ones that grew the most are the ones that took the drug correctly, but the guys that didn’t grow much probably didn’t take the drug everyday, or didn’t sleep enough, or didn’t eat well, or wore too much green, or didn’t use the correct arm motion when putting the pill in their mouth, or there were too many Asian kids in the mix, or they’re lying, or too many of Danny Devito’s kids got in there, or the moons weren’t aligned correctly.” Christians do this when they try to separate themselves from “bad” Christians.

 

Christians don’t live “better” than anybody else, and some Christians will even agree. It’s true that some do, but there are also Muslims, Atheists, Jews, etc. that do as well. If there was any real power from the Gospel, there would be some difference. If you have the audacity to say that you have the correct worldview, and everyone else is wrong, there better be a fucking difference.

 

I’ve presented this argument to a Christian and one response was. “You’re right, Christians aren’t any better but the difference is that they realize they need Jesus.” If you agree that Christians aren’t any better, what do you need Jesus for? If you’re the same as everyone else, what would happen if you didn’t have Jesus? (other than the whole not going to hell thing) Are you saying that if you didn’t have Jesus you’d off yourself or fall into a drug habit or end up being a serial killer? If you give me watermelon to eat, and I couldn’t get watermelon anywhere else, I would say that in order for me to eat watermelon, I need you. But if I’m not eating watermelon anyway, what do I need you for? Haha did that analogy make any sense?

 

So confusing!!

Yes, we're all free from christianity, and we can look at those evil christians and their hypocritical ways.

On a serious note: Is it right to judge a religion based on acts by its followers that AREN'T consistent with that religion's dogma?

Even WE can judge who are real and who aren't real christians, because we can look at the christian dogma more objectively, and decide if an action is consistent or inconsistent with what the religion teaches.

That actually annoyed me, and still annoys me, when it comes to the molesting of children in the catholic church, though I never was a catholic or sympathized with catholicism in any way.

Should christianity be judged for what some priests did, in spite of the actions being completely inconsistent with christianity in every way?

If I claim to be a vegan, and eat meat, does it mean that vegans are meat-eaters? I see a lot of these generalizations. These issues are less black and less white and more gray, IMHO. I'm all for analyzing and judging christianity, but let's judge the actual teachings that are in line with the bible.

Any thoughts?

[Guest I Love Dog]

No, I get what you're saying, and I agree totally. Christianity itself doesn't make christians as a group any better than anyone else, no matter what they say.

 

And they don't go to any better place when they die, no matter what they believe, they still end up as worm fodder with no eternal life or heaven or hell, same as people with any other belief or non belief!