Christians That Love Hell

[SirPhoenix]

It seems to me that there is a brand of christian out there that revels in fact that the "sinners" are going to hell. This is the brand that puts together "hell houses" on Halloween. They will say they are concerned for the non-believers, almost seem happy when people reject Jesus because then they get to act indignant and self-righteous. I never understood this type even when I believed. I was from the "gee I'm sorry you're headed for hell" crowd. Well, at least that's how I felt.

 

I would love to hear any stories y'all have.

[Guest riverrunner]

I don't know any hell lovers but they would be truly sadistic. the gee I'm sorry crowd isn't much better. If anything makes me want to kick someones ass its them threatening me with hell when they run out of arguments.

[OpheliaGinger]

It's a form of sadism--the "safe and righteous" sadism.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

They've got a religion-based personality disorder. I'm almost certain of it.

[Vomit Comet]

When Nietzsche was writing about his concept of "ressentiment" he opened with a lengthy quote from, IIRC, St. Augustine. Auggie was going on this long psycho rant about how all the various 'beautiful people' of Roman society (courtesans, athletes, philosophers) were going to be cast into hell. It sounded as if he must have had a raging hard-on while writing it back in the Late Roman Era. Anybody know which work by Nietzsche that was? Anybody have the quote?

[YellowJacket]

I'm gonna say the whole Phelps family falls into that category. the real shame is when they get their toddlers to parrot the sentiment.

[SirPhoenix]

I'm gonna say the whole Phelps family falls into that category. the real shame is when they get their toddlers to parrot the sentiment.

 

Classic example.

[ilovemybrain]

I don't know any hell lovers but they would be truly sadistic. the gee I'm sorry crowd isn't much better. If anything makes me want to kick someones ass its them threatening me with hell when they run out of arguments.

AAAGHHHHH me too! They all have different doctrines of exactly how one gets saved, too, so they're pretty damn sure all those "other " xians are also going to hell.

[Deva]

I really think a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses would like to see the world end and everyone burn. Yeah. That and other mostly apocalyptic religions. I suppose they appeal to people who feel they have been injured by life and who really want revenge.

[Moxie]

At the church where I grew up, Christians laughed about the people they considered hell-bound.

[SirPhoenix]

At think one facet of this mentality is that they are pissed off about having to follow all the rules, and all of us have said fuck it.

[JadedAtheist]

I know people who delight in it but that wasn't me in general. I was more like the guy who would tell you that you are choosing to go to hell (tie this in with my Calvinism and prepare to get confused).

[Darklady]

Then there are the xian who wear blinkers "oh god wouldn't send anyone to hell' types, who blithely ignore anything they don't like in the evil bible. Hummm, I might have once been one of these

[true-atheist]

Christians used to be able to torture suspected heretics and witches, then burn them alive. Fortunately they can't get away with that anymore, but some of them still imagine it happening in the supposed "afterlife".

[Moxie]

Christians who love hell make me question their humanness.

[renoliz]

I really do think that some of those Christians just love hell. I tried to explain to several Christians why this concept of hell where everyone is burning for ever and ever and ever isn't even in the Bible. They would be insulted and shocked. They would say things like "Then why would you even spread the message of Jesus' love." I said "Because god loving us is good news." That was during my Universalism phase.

 

I remember when Sister Noahcide said "All those people in Noah's time burning in Hell today." I thought "Hey, hell wasn't even mentioned in the Old Testament but god is burning them in hell today?" WTF. I didn't even bother to go into it with her. That smug look of satisfaction over those unbelievers in hell let me know that it was hopeless. You see, god chose her and she is special. To hell with everybody else.

 

Anyway, I think it is terrible that hell has been blown up into this nightmare when it isn't even in the Bible like these people preach it. Another example of how people can just make up anything they want and "it is in the Bible so it must be true."

 

By the way, I am an atheist now and quite content with this.

[Pandora Moon]

I really think a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses would like to see the world end and everyone burn.

 

 

What's ironic about this is that Jehovah's Witnesses say that hell is a false teaching because it isn't mentioned in the bible and also because a loving god wouldn't torture people. Yet they believe that this same loving god will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses

[R. S. Martin]

I know people who delight in it but that wasn't me in general. I was more like the guy who would tell you that you are choosing to go to hell

 

I experience this concept as particularly sadistic.

 

First of all, the concept that anyone chooses to go to hell is unbiblical because in every illustration given in the NT about how people get into hell, the word "cast" is used, as in "they are cast into hell." That is in the KJV and it is an approximate equivalent to the more modern word "throw," as in "throw that ball to me." Someone has to do the casting or throwing, and obviously, it isn't the individuals themselves any more than balls throw themselves.

 

Secondly, when Christians tell me that unless I accept their Jesus, I choose to go to their hell (which they assure me is the most terrible mode of existence imaginable), I feel like they are withdrawing all forms of law and order and logical discussion. In its place, they try to superimpose guilt on me for "denying their Lord." If that is not sadistic--inflicting emotional suffering on others and enjoying it, tell me what it is.

 

Thirdly, in order to accept their Jesus, I would have to reject personal integrity, my deepest and truest value, that which brought me peace in the first place. Only the worst sadist--one who wishes me a life of emotional suffering (absence of peace)--would tell me that *this* (sticking with healthy style of life that gives me peace) is "choosing hell."

 

I find it much easier to deal with Christians who at least stick with the traditional biblical version of hell as a lake of fire and who admit that God casts people into it. With them, the beliefs are out there and one can deal with them head-on.

 

The title of this thread vividly reminds me of the famous sermon by Jonathan Edwards, preached July 8, 1741: Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. Edwards obviously delighted in hell.

 

This sermon is not for the faint of heart or anyone still struggling with hell fears. I'm not going to read it again. For anyone interested in an introduction, possibly the Wikipedia article is more digestible--just choose the parts you can handle. I think Wiki's opening paragraph is okay.

[renoliz]

I really think a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses would like to see the world end and everyone burn.

 

 

What's ironic about this is that Jehovah's Witnesses say that hell is a false teaching because it isn't mentioned in the bible and also because a loving god wouldn't torture people. Yet they believe that this same loving god will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses

That would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so sad. What is it about groups of people that can be so twisted in their ideas of love? Neither the concepts of Hell nor Armegeddon ala the Jehovahs's Witnesses are loving.

[R. S. Martin]

I really do think that some of those Christians just love hell. I tried to explain to several Christians why this concept of hell where everyone is burning for ever and ever and ever isn't even in the Bible.

 

Yes, the concept of hell as an eternally burning lake of fire is definitely in the Bible. I did my best to figure out that it wasn't and it was impossible to get around it.

 

Mark 9:43-48

 

⁴³

And if thy hand offend

^c

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁴

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁵

And if thy foot offend

^d

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁶

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁷

And if thine eye offend

^e

 thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 

⁴⁸

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

^c

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^d

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^e

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Mk 9:43). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

Apparently hell is fire and it cannot be quenched, which means it lasts forever and ever. It's repeated three times. It's gotta be true--or at least the author was serious about it.

 

Re. 19:20

 

²⁰

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 19:20). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rev. 21:8

 

⁸

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 21:8). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

It seems it's not just any fire; it's a lake of fire and it burns with brimstone. If I searched longer, possibly I'd find three references to "lake of fire" in Rev., too, but I think this suffices.

 

So we have lots of scriptural basis for an eternally burning lake of fire called hell into which God can cast his enemies. How do you explain it away?

[SirPhoenix]

I read that the early churches debated on whether to include Revelation in scripture. The Gospels were so heavily edited by church scribes that I highly doubt that the original manuscripts really spoke about eternal torture.

 

I have read studies where the authors view point is that the fire spoken about is figurative.

 

I guess in the end, it is all of these differences, which in my opinion can be argued from a biblical frame of reference, that led me to conclude that it's all bullshit. So many contradictions that in order to make it all fit, one has to literally go insane or quit thinking completely.

[renoliz]

I really do think that some of those Christians just love hell. I tried to explain to several Christians why this concept of hell where everyone is burning for ever and ever and ever isn't even in the Bible.

 

Yes, the concept of hell as an eternally burning lake of fire is definitely in the Bible. I did my best to figure out that it wasn't and it was impossible to get around it.

 

Mark 9:43-48

 

⁴³

And if thy hand offend

^c

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁴

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁵

And if thy foot offend

^d

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁶

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁷

And if thine eye offend

^e

 thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 

⁴⁸

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

^c

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^d

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^e

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Mk 9:43). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

Apparently hell is fire and it cannot be quenched, which means it lasts forever and ever. It's repeated three times. It's gotta be true--or at least the author was serious about it.

 

Re. 19:20

 

²⁰

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 19:20). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rev. 21:8

 

⁸

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 21:8). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

It seems it's not just any fire; it's a lake of fire and it burns with brimstone. If I searched longer, possibly I'd find three references to "lake of fire" in Rev., too, but I think this suffices.

 

So we have lots of scriptural basis for an eternally burning lake of fire called hell into which God can cast his enemies. How do you explain it away?

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html

 

An expose on the lake of fire. A second death isn't necessarily roasting for eternity, it is death. Of course, the Book of Revelation is actually gobbledygook and has been interpreted in uncountable ways.

 

I don't think anyone really knows what is meant in Revelations. I saw a Church believer/expert Phd on television once and he said that every book needs a great beginning and a great ending and Revelation is certainly a dramatic ending. Yeah, that really sounded inspired by God to me [sarcasm here].

 

Second, the word hell should not be taken to mean what modern preachers have turned it into. The Old Testament speaks of Sheol which is the grave. The New Testament talks of Hades which is a term that could be considered to be equal with Sheol. The word hell simply meant hidden or covered and so did not mean a burning cave under the earth with Satan gloating over his victories. The word hell was transformed into this whole concept of people burning forever and ever. [The Greek and Hebrew words actually more probably mean an age or "eon". Whilst those can be a long time an age or an eon have a beginning and an END.

 

Gehenna was the garbage dump in Jerusalem. Not hell.

 

The word hell should not be in use in the Bible at all and it is not in quite a few editions of the Bible. The King James, New King James, NIV cut back on the use of the word hell but haven't taken it out completely. They simply don't want to give up their favorite fear tactic.

 

Basically the word hell has no place in an actual translation of the Bible but is instead a theological interpretation.

[JadedAtheist]

I know people who delight in it but that wasn't me in general. I was more like the guy who would tell you that you are choosing to go to hell

 

I experience this concept as particularly sadistic.

 

First of all, the concept that anyone chooses to go to hell is unbiblical because in every illustration given in the NT about how people get into hell, the word "cast" is used, as in "they are cast into hell." That is in the KJV and it is an approximate equivalent to the more modern word "throw," as in "throw that ball to me." Someone has to do the casting or throwing, and obviously, it isn't the individuals themselves any more than balls throw themselves.

 

Secondly, when Christians tell me that unless I accept their Jesus, I choose to go to their hell (which they assure me is the most terrible mode of existence imaginable), I feel like they are withdrawing all forms of law and order and logical discussion. In its place, they try to superimpose guilt on me for "denying their Lord." If that is not sadistic--inflicting emotional suffering on others and enjoying it, tell me what it is.

 

Thirdly, in order to accept their Jesus, I would have to reject personal integrity, my deepest and truest value, that which brought me peace in the first place. Only the worst sadist--one who wishes me a life of emotional suffering (absence of peace)--would tell me that *this* (sticking with healthy style of life that gives me peace) is "choosing hell."

 

I find it much easier to deal with Christians who at least stick with the traditional biblical version of hell as a lake of fire and who admit that God casts people into it. With them, the beliefs are out there and one can deal with them head-on.

 

The title of this thread vividly reminds me of the famous sermon by Jonathan Edwards, preached July 8, 1741: Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. Edwards obviously delighted in hell.

 

This sermon is not for the faint of heart or anyone still struggling with hell fears. I'm not going to read it again. For anyone interested in an introduction, possibly the Wikipedia article is more digestible--just choose the parts you can handle. I think Wiki's opening paragraph is okay.

 

Yeah, I remember having doubts about my salvation after listening to that sermon. As for my stance, as time progressed I leaned more towards God electing people for salvation and others, to damnation (i.e. Calvinism). People like Edwards who were Calvinists probably found good in the eternal damnation of man in hell because even then their God was glorified in the process of that persons torment.

 

As for the whole hell aspect, there definitely seems to be (IMHO) some concept of an afterlife with either a good or bad place to go to. The example that stands out in my mind is the tale of the rich man and Lazarus.

[Legion]

"I've denied myself. I've sacrificed to be a decent person. All the while you were reveling in your sin. I've strenghtened the community while you laughed and gleefully tore it down."

 

This person longs for justice.

 

Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. - Romans 12:19

 

And God delivers.

[renoliz]

I really do think that some of those Christians just love hell. I tried to explain to several Christians why this concept of hell where everyone is burning for ever and ever and ever isn't even in the Bible.

 

Yes, the concept of hell as an eternally burning lake of fire is definitely in the Bible. I did my best to figure out that it wasn't and it was impossible to get around it.

 

Mark 9:43-48

 

⁴³

And if thy hand offend

^c

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁴

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁵

And if thy foot offend

^d

 thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 

⁴⁶

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

⁴⁷

And if thine eye offend

^e

 thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 

⁴⁸

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

^c

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^d

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

^e

offend...: or, cause thee to offend

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Mk 9:43). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

Apparently hell is fire and it cannot be quenched, which means it lasts forever and ever. It's repeated three times. It's gotta be true--or at least the author was serious about it.

 

Re. 19:20

 

²⁰

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 19:20). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Rev. 21:8

 

⁸

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The Holy Bible : King James Version.

1995 (Re 21:8). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

It seems it's not just any fire; it's a lake of fire and it burns with brimstone. If I searched longer, possibly I'd find three references to "lake of fire" in Rev., too, but I think this suffices.

 

So we have lots of scriptural basis for an eternally burning lake of fire called hell into which God can cast his enemies. How do you explain it away?

 

We sort of do and sort of don't have a scriptural basis for hell. But it does say the second death there. It doesn't say your burning forever and ever and ever. So maybe your just dead. Sulphur and brimstone are said to be symbolic of purification and it would seem that there is lot of symbolic language in the Book of Revelation.

 

Honestly, I think the whole Bible is bogus at this point but I did find it comforting as a Christian to know that the whole hell concept is really a creation of overactive imaginations. The story of Lazerus is parable and so probably isn'[t meant literally. Mark doesn't seem to mention hell. The first gospel written. Nor does Paul, the man who apparently invented the earliest Christianity that we know of.

 

Also, hell was probably added to the Christian concepts in the second century. We all know that the Bible and its books were cobbled together from bits and pieces that people wanted to throw in to support there version of doctrine starting at an early date.

 

Peace to you. Myself, I am an atheist now and quite happy but I feel for people that fear hell as I used to.