Guest Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 The term "Pagan" for them might be a catch-all phrase for people who revere nature. Thats why I told him Sagan calls himself a Skeptical Agnostic, but, to the xtian, he would be considered an Atheist. It may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but accuracy is something I strive for in my conversations with xtians. They so often try to re-define words and re-frame arguments I find I spend a lot of time stressing they are making up their own definition of a word they are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droptail Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Just like many of us, having been on the inside, I know that Christians can't admit/believe that outsiders are truthful and being honest with themselves. To do so would open them up to being responsive to and reflective on the reasoning of outsiders, and people would begin leaving the church in droves. That's how my own deconversion went; I realized I was being ego-(ethno-?)centric by believing that only Christians and myself knew what was right, and as soon as it dawned on me that others who thought similarly about themselves could be right, it was not a year before I was a non-believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I left due to the hypocrisy I saw bleeding into my once leaning to liberal church. For example, it was not ok for a member who had molested a kid to attend morning Bible studies on the weekend due to the kids being at church, but it was ok for the pastor to take church money and send a parishioner's delinquent kid to a Christian boarding school notorious for pedophilia and physical child abuse. When I pointed this out to an elder I was told kids in boarding schools make up shit so they can come home as they don't like the "tough love" they get in the boarding school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I actually read the bible and saw what a pile of cobbled-together nonsense it really is. Oh wait. I mean... I just wanted to sin. That's right. Sin like crazy. Wait I really haven't sinned at all. Hmmm. Where are all my meaningless sexual encounters? Blasphemies? Drunken debauchery? Got a tally of zero going on here. Must be doing ex-christianity wrong here. Better read that article and see how it's done! Geez, Jbbr- you're RIGHT! I feel as though I have FAILED as an EX-c.... Damn. No kidding. Where are all the cool atheist orgies and baby-eating parties? We must be doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Where are the orgies? They said there would be orgies. And aborted baby pate on Host wafers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 No kidding. Where are all the cool atheist orgies and baby-eating parties? We must be doing it wrong. Dammit. I posted the same thing before reading this far. Now I am a failure in another area. This is all your fault for stealing my thoughts with your atheist powers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 No kidding. Where are all the cool atheist orgies and baby-eating parties? We must be doing it wrong. Dammit. I posted the same thing before reading this far. Now I am a failure in another area. This is all your fault for stealing my thoughts with your atheist powers. You had some different material in there... aborted baby pate... we must be on the same evil wavelength MUA HA HA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 No kidding. Where are all the cool atheist orgies and baby-eating parties? We must be doing it wrong. Dammit. I posted the same thing before reading this far. Now I am a failure in another area. This is all your fault for stealing my thoughts with your atheist powers. You had some different material in there... aborted baby pate... we must be on the same evil wavelength MUA HA HA So, does that mean I have evil atheist powers, too? Hot damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I left because I increasingly saw Christianity in terms of sociology, psychology and economics. The fact that the people could be hypocrites didn't bother me so much as the fact that, overall, the so-called "Holy Spirit" didn't seem to make much of a difference in anybody's lives. It seemed to me that Christian behavior in terms of "conformity" or "morality" fell on a bell curve of sorts. Fewer people conform to a high degree, fewer people are bald-faced hypocrites. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. Pure sociology. Dyck, in his article, implies that those who left at age 20-30 would not have done so had they been taught "authentic" christianity. Anybody care to name that fallacy? He contrasts "authentic" Christianity with "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism." Basically, he says, the 20-30 year old who leave the faith are shallow and ignorant. They haven't been taught properly. These are just excuses. I think people of that age leave because they know , in their generally idealistic years, that all they will get from their churches is heaps and heaps of nuanced verbiage designed to make their eyes glaze over so they won't notice they're being distracted from their real questions. Such as, why does it seem like good things happen to some but not all bad people and good things happen to some but not all good people? Why does it look like a world that is not ruled by god? Of course, many will come back to "the fold" when they have kids or when their idealism fades and the pragmatic advantages of being in conformity to the majority culture's religion soaks in. Dyck, to me, shows a complete lack of having thoughtfully dialogued with actual de-converts. Perhaps he should shed the agenda and just listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Whoever wrote this article is an asshole. It's like he collected the statistics, personal interviews and all the other information he needed, looked at it and then discarded all the parts that didn't fit his presuppositions. He suffers from the NTSF (No True Scotsman Fallacy) and as a result fits all his findings into that perspective. People may say they left for intellectual reasons but all he hears is "moral compromise". He may think that he is trying to build bridges with ex-christians with this article but instead he is burning them down with his pathetic excuse for an article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 The whole concept of Christianity is BS! Walk up to any person in the street and ask if they were born a "sinner" or their beautiful children or grandchildren are "sinners" until they "accept Jesus" into their lives! If anyone suggested to me that my children and grandchildren are nasty, horrible, disgusting "sinners" I would prolly punch them in the mouth, even though I'm a pacifist! What a heap of crap and they wonder why people are dumping Christianity in droves. Long live non-belief! Yeah but this is Australia mate. We got over the whole christianity thing sometime in the sixites or seventies I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I left because I increasingly saw Christianity in terms of sociology, psychology and economics. The fact that the people could be hypocrites didn't bother me so much as the fact that, overall, the so-called "Holy Spirit" didn't seem to make much of a difference in anybody's lives. It seemed to me that Christian behavior in terms of "conformity" or "morality" fell on a bell curve of sorts. Fewer people conform to a high degree, fewer people are bald-faced hypocrites. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. Pure sociology. Agreed. That is the main reason I left, no difference in people over a long period of time. I live for the day when not only will people not have to fall over themselves conforming to religion, but to the poxy culture we have developed either. Only then will we truly be able to say we are independent thinkers, because we sure as hell aren't now. And a christian listen? Blasphemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I did not have a problem with Christian morality - I didn't struggle with not having sex outside of marriage I sure as hell did! If they were to accuse me of exchanging my salvation for the nookie, they'd be halfway there I'm afraid. But only half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 I went into a christian chat, on time and I noticed something, they just simply don't get why one could leave, actually GET IT. I am 20, and I left, because the whole belief system stopped making sense, and seems just like another belief system(not one of a god), and not some divine thing. I still think that, and oddly enough the more I think about christianity to more it doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemybrain Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! According to Ken Ham and my Husband (oh that I should string those words together)...I am just rebellious. Didn't you know? Next time he tells me that I might go and stay out all night (I'll just get a room- have a hot bath and chat with brain.) When I come home I can tell him "call me fat...I'll get fat" call me rebellious? I'll be rebellious. See how I don't really want to be rebellious? A chat? That's all? Need to invite a few other repressed ex-c's along and be baaad while we're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemybrain Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Srsly though, just had this conversation with dh the other night - he said "let's not pretend you didn't just reject the bible so you could rebel." -facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! According to Ken Ham and my Husband (oh that I should string those words together)...I am just rebellious. Didn't you know? Next time he tells me that I might go and stay out all night (I'll just get a room- have a hot bath and chat with brain.) When I come home I can tell him "call me fat...I'll get fat" call me rebellious? I'll be rebellious. See how I don't really want to be rebellious? A chat? That's all? Need to invite a few other repressed ex-c's along and be baaad while we're at it. count me in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! According to Ken Ham and my Husband (oh that I should string those words together)...I am just rebellious. Didn't you know? Next time he tells me that I might go and stay out all night (I'll just get a room- have a hot bath and chat with brain.) When I come home I can tell him "call me fat...I'll get fat" call me rebellious? I'll be rebellious. See how I don't really want to be rebellious? A chat? That's all? Need to invite a few other repressed ex-c's along and be baaad while we're at it. count me in Come to New Orleans! We can so tear it up and make the hubbies' heads explode! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 http://www.christian...mber/27.40.html they hardly acknowledge that we think its bs! Mostly they think we want to 'sin' or something. Why the hell would I sin against an all powervul vengeful god if I thought he existed? arrgggh! According to Ken Ham and my Husband (oh that I should string those words together)...I am just rebellious. Didn't you know? Next time he tells me that I might go and stay out all night (I'll just get a room- have a hot bath and chat with brain.) When I come home I can tell him "call me fat...I'll get fat" call me rebellious? I'll be rebellious. See how I don't really want to be rebellious? A chat? That's all? Need to invite a few other repressed ex-c's along and be baaad while we're at it. count me in Come to New Orleans! We can so tear it up and make the hubbies' heads explode! Freaking awesome. Name the time and the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemybrain Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 You're on, Luna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrydingo Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 IMO they're trying to over simplify something that's quite complicated. There are several reasons I stopped believing in Christianity. Some emotional, some intellectual, and some based on observations of the christian faithful themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Srsly though, just had this conversation with dh the other night - he said "let's not pretend you didn't just reject the bible so you could rebel." -facepalm Did you call him on it? Get him to list, point by point, everywhere you have rebelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 IMO they're trying to over simplify something that's quite complicated. It's inevitable. Those who are still indoctrinated can't consider that they could be wrong, and thus can't fathom what one goes through when coming to grips with having been indoctrinated with a lie. They simply have to reinterpret our experiences through the faulty lens of christian indoctrination. It's sad (and frustrating), but such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jds22 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 ........ I wonder how much dust you can sweep under a rug before you find that your rug is laying on a hill of dust. From my parents marriage about 21 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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