Why Do I Threaten You?

[Dagan]

Why do I threaten Christians because I just want to be accepted for who I am? Not for who they wish I could be?

 

I had a tough talk with my fundie wife tonight. It went poorly. I don't think she will ever accept me for who I am, and she doesn't want to accept my loss of faith.

 

And Christians seem threatened by us ex-ers. Fuck off, assholes, if we threaten you, go circle the wagons then. And guess what -- we're not going to attack because YOU HAVE NOTHING WE WANT. I just want to live, love and move on. But apparently I'm denied even that.

 

Fuck Christianity and its mind prison. I will be me and anyone who can't accept that, well, too bad.

 

This rant brought to you by a broken heart and a lot of rum.

[Astreja]

Jabbrwokk, I'm sorry to hear that things aren't going well between you and your wife.

 

If push comes to shove and going your separate ways is the most viable option, please take steps to protect yourself and don't sign anything without advice from your lawyer.

[Deva]

I'm sorry to hear about the conversation Jabberwock. That sounds rough. I won't dispense any advice because I am not married, but what Astreja said is true.

 

Yes, Christians do not accept other non-Christians for who they are. I know my parents will never accept me and it still hurts even though I am older. It is deeply painful with people that you really do love. There is always this barrier - and you know they are praying for you to be a Christian all the time, which means who you are now isn't acceptable. The odd thing is that they don't even seem to see it.

[Guest I Love Dog]

Why do I threaten Christians because I just want to be accepted for who I am? Not for who they wish I could be?

 

I had a tough talk with my fundie wife tonight. It went poorly. I don't think she will ever accept me for who I am, and she doesn't want to accept my loss of faith.

 

And Christians seem threatened by us ex-ers. Fuck off, assholes, if we threaten you, go circle the wagons then. And guess what -- we're not going to attack because YOU HAVE NOTHING WE WANT. I just want to live, love and move on. But apparently I'm denied even that.

 

Fuck Christianity and its mind prison. I will be me and anyone who can't accept that, well, too bad.

 

This rant brought to you by a broken heart and a lot of rum.

 

The problem with Christians is that they are so blinkered! Your wife needs to accept that people have choices in life and that doesn't define them as a person. What does it matter to her what you believe? She should be as comfortable with what you believe as what she believes.

 

If she sees you as a lesser person because you have a different belief, then your relationship is over. She either respects your non-belief or she loses. Period.

[Guest riverrunner]

ugh this happens a lot on here. i am going to keep trying to avoid this 'talk' that never seems to go well for anyone here.

 

best to you jwok. go do something you enjoy. in time she may accept you if she can see you are more or less the same person.

[Phanta]

Don't let them make you bitter, J. *hug*

[Freedom from Guilt]

I'm sorry Jabbrwok! I can relate. When I was a Christian, I never realized how my religion caused me NOT to love people. I thought that I loved people with "god's love' but I didn't. I was constantly looking for a way to make them acceptable to me and to god. It's so sad that Christianity steals that from people. I hope today is a better day for you!

 

freedom

[SirPhoenix]

All exers threaten christians because we throw a monkey wrench into their world view. Even with all their verses that try to explain why we walked away, deep down the suspect we know the truth and it scares the shit out of them. The ones that are the closest to realizing the same thing we all have are likely the ones that are the most threatened by us. The christians that are completely blinded by their faith couldn't care less about us.

[foolish girl]

ugh this happens a lot on here. i am going to keep trying to avoid this 'talk' that never seems to go well for anyone here.

 

best to you jwok. go do something you enjoy. in time she may accept you if she can see you are more or less the same person.

 

It is the only time my husband has ever hurt me (verbally)....during "the talk". It is the programing. God is real. Denying him gets you sent to hell. Demons are trying to drag you away, you have to fight. If you leave it means you didn't fight hard enough. If you are yourself around others you have become part the evil nexus and you are unwittingly helping your loved ones get to hell.

 

didn't you know?

 

Since we all "Seemed" to be christians at one point, we are supposed know better. Therefore, we didn't try hard enough, which means we don't care which makes us bastards.

 

I think that about sums it up.

[foolish girl]

All exers threaten christians because we throw a monkey wrench into their world view. Even with all their verses that try to explain why we walked away, deep down the suspect we know the truth and it scares the shit out of them. The ones that are the closest to realizing the same thing we all have are likely the ones that are the most threatened by us. The christians that are completely blinded by their faith couldn't care less about us.

 

That is a very good point Sir.

 

I do think that in a marriage, even the drooling "sold-out" types are threatened, because they want sameness from their partners and the parents of their children.

[SirPhoenix]

All exers threaten christians because we throw a monkey wrench into their world view. Even with all their verses that try to explain why we walked away, deep down the suspect we know the truth and it scares the shit out of them. The ones that are the closest to realizing the same thing we all have are likely the ones that are the most threatened by us. The christians that are completely blinded by their faith couldn't care less about us.

 

That is a very good point Sir.

 

I do think that in a marriage, even the drooling "sold-out" types are threatened, because they want sameness from their partners and the parents of their children.

 

 

I agree, spouses of the sold out types do want the family sameness.

[dB-Paradox]

I've had those poor conversations with my wife. I have an idea what it's like. The ignorance. The stubbornness. The blindness, and the unwillingness to even listen. Oh, and the accusations! (How I'm playing games with her and not respecting her beliefs!) It gets too draining. We do our best to not even talk about it any more. It works....so far. I hope things look up Jab!

[Sybaris]

I've had those poor conversations with my wife. I have an idea what it's like. The ignorance. The stubbornness. The blindness, and the unwillingness to even listen. Oh, and the accusations! (How I'm playing games with her and not respecting her beliefs!) It gets too draining. We do our best to not even talk about it any more. It works....so far. I hope things look up Jab!

 

 

Same here. You can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't or won't adhere to the basic rules of debate.

[buffettphan]

I've had those poor conversations with my wife. I have an idea what it's like. The ignorance. The stubbornness. The blindness, and the unwillingness to even listen. Oh, and the accusations! (How I'm playing games with her and not respecting her beliefs!) It gets too draining. We do our best to not even talk about it any more. It works....so far. I hope things look up Jab!

 

 

Same here. You can't have a discussion with someone who doesn't or won't adhere to the basic rules of debate.

 

Same for me. Especially

the unwillingness to even listen.

[buffettphan]

All exers threaten christians because we throw a monkey wrench into their world view. Even with all their verses that try to explain why we walked away, deep down the suspect we know the truth and it scares the shit out of them. The ones that are the closest to realizing the same thing we all have are likely the ones that are the most threatened by us. The christians that are completely blinded by their faith couldn't care less about us.

 

 

Exactly. If it happened to us, it could happen to them.

[Snakefoot]

And I thought I was the only one married to an xtian.

 

Mine's a certifiably batshit fundy. She no longer confronts me directly, but still tells me "Jeebus stuff" as if nothing has changed. I treat it like a child talking about Santa or My Little Pony. "That nice, dear. I am glad you enjoy that."

[Dagan]

Thanks everyone. The battle is going to be over the minds of our kids... she can take them to Sunday School if she wants but I told her I'm not going to lie and pretend I support something I think is insidious. And I will encourage them to think for themselves and ask questions.

 

And the most painful part is that I'm now not good enough. She won't accept me as I am. And she really believes faith was foundational to our marriage. I asked what about all the other stuff that attracted us together in the first place. No answer.

 

Ah well. Life will be what it will be. I'm not going to hide and if she won't accept me for who I am, I'm not going to fake anything for her. Wherever that leads, I don't know.

 

Thanks again, all of you.

 

Snakefoot -- I tried the Santa comparison... got some serious stinkeye

 

And what SirPhoenix said is absolutely right I think:

 

All exers threaten christians because we throw a monkey wrench into their world view. Even with all their verses that try to explain why we walked away, deep down the suspect we know the truth and it scares the shit out of them. The ones that are the closest to realizing the same thing we all have are likely the ones that are the most threatened by us. The christians that are completely blinded by their faith couldn't care less about us.

[foolish girl]

- I tried the Santa comparison... got some serious stinkeye

 

 

 

Jbbr,

In a "debate with my husband once, I mentioned Magic: When there was no reasonable explanation for a thing it was god's miracles.

 

Man, when I said magic he got pissed. I didn't even say it to be inflammatory - but boy it pissed him off.

[ilovemybrain]

I mentioned the Santa comparison the other day too, and it wasn't received well either.

 

Ugh...well you know I'm in the same boat, and I wish happiness for you, whatever happens.

[ilovemybrain]

The thing about kids though - that is a tough one and it bothers me every day. Keep letting them know what wonderful special people they are so you can counteract the Christian message of being worthless pieces of shit.

[SirPhoenix]

My current wife proclaims to be a christian, but I think she has some serious doubts herself. There isn't too much stress, because, she is very pragmatic and realizes that so much of what the church promotes is crap. For instance, she fully intends to tell my stepson that he better damned well use a condom if he intends to have sex. Although, at 18 months, I suspect he wasn't paying much attention, so we'll just have to go over that one later on. Also, she has plenty of gay friends, and has even stated that if my stepson turns out to be gay, that it won't change anything with her. I am seeing that she is having the internal conflicts that I once had. She sees reality and cannot deny it, but this confilicts with what the church has told her. I am confident she will come to terms with this in time.

 

I think one of the reasons I held onto Christianity for so long was that I wasn't willing to give up a belief that someone was watching over me, protecting me in life. I think she's the same. I guess now, I feel so much more empowered realizing that I am the one responsible for guiding my life. There are certain things that happen in life, and we all just have to do our best in dealing with them.

 

 

[lunaticheathen]

I'm so glad I left before I got hitched to some fundie baptist asshole. And the ones I knew back in school days really were misogynistic assholes. I shudder to think what my life would be like if I had stayed despite my screaming doubts.

I know an awful lot about not being accepted by christians, however, for who I am - a mystic pagan, as well as an ex-C. I get the "you never were a christian" thing a LOT, especially since I'm now "worshiping the devil."

But for me, it's more annoying, and I can walk away. I know it's got to be painful when it's someone in your life that you picked to be with for the rest of your life. I remember being hurt by my mother violently rejecting me when she found out I was pagan. She's come around now, but it sucked.

Everyone else can take a flying fuck off a cliff.

[SirPhoenix]

I'm so glad I left before I got hitched to some fundie baptist asshole. And the ones I knew back in school days really were misogynistic assholes. I shudder to think what my life would be like if I had stayed despite my screaming doubts.

I know an awful lot about not being accepted by christians, however, for who I am - a mystic pagan, as well as an ex-C. I get the "you never were a christian" thing a LOT, especially since I'm now "worshiping the devil."

But for me, it's more annoying, and I can walk away. I know it's got to be painful when it's someone in your life that you picked to be with for the rest of your life. I remember being hurt by my mother violently rejecting me when she found out I was pagan. She's come around now, but it sucked.

Everyone else can take a flying fuck off a cliff.

 

One of my best friends is a Neo-Pagan, and she is one of the best people I know. She had an awesome story about being in a fabric store. She was standing at the fabric counter and overheard some ladies talking about a church project they had that involved embroidery. My friend is an ex-c and an excellent seamtress, so she offered these ladies advice on how to do the type of embroidery they needed. During the conversation, one of them asks her "What church do you attend." Her religion is private and she had no desire to stir anything up, so she simply told them she didn't attend anywhere. They let it go for a while until one of them asked her directly, "If you did attend church, what type of church would you attend?" So, my friend was asked a direct question, and wasn't about to lie, as she is not at all ashamed of what she is.

 

"If I did attend church, it would most likely be 'Our Lady', up in Oklahoma," my friend replied. Still, she is trying to be considerate of these women and trying to divert the converstion back to embroidery.

 

"Oh, so you're Catholic?" the lady asks her.

 

"No mam, I'm Wiccan, 'Our Lady' is a Pagan church."

 

At this point, one of the women starts digging frantically through her purse repeating over and over to herself "A life in Christ, A life in Christ!" My friend wasn't sure what this women was looking for, but figured that she was about to get holy water thrown at her.

 

While the one woman dug through her purse, the other stated, "There is nothing more special than a relationship with God."

 

My friend replied, "Yes mam, whatever form or forms that god may take."

 

At this point, the two women decided that embroidery wasn't so important and that they had somehwere else they needed to be. I just laugh every time I think of the purse digger.

[ilovemybrain]

I know it's got to be painful when it's someone in your life that you picked to be with for the rest of your life.

 

It sure is. And it must be painful for the spouses too, who still are deluded and think we're headed straight for hell. We're looking at each other across this chasm, with totally different ways of viewing the world, and trying to figure out if we can make it work or not. And when kids are involved, the stakes are very high. But it's a fucking mess and it wouldn't be like that if xians could accept that they just MIGHT NOT be right, and that people don't all think the same way, and shouldn't have to! ggrrrr

[ilovemybrain]

Sorry. I keep doing that lately. Turn every thread into a rant about my situation. In answer to the original post, however, it all comes down to people's beliefs being threatened because they worry that we really do have good reasons not to believe.

 

I've posted this before, but I read a good article about how our brains are wired to fight for the survival of our beliefs as if we were literally fighting for our own survival. Damn, I can't find the link. Realist gave it to me, and maybe he or Foolish Girl still has it somewhere? Do either of you have that link?

 

Anyway, the very existence of ex-christians threatens the faith of believers, and scares them that their faith (which they believe is central to their eternal happiness and avoidance of torment) could topple.