Totallyatpeace Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Very interesting thoughts, NBM........and you're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Are you so sure that God is as you say? Or could He be alot like us. Didnt He say lets make man in our image? A reflection of who He and they were. Like men in general, we struggle with the idea we are not sensitive enough because the women think we should be. But in the Bible God said "the Lord is a warrior and the Lord is His name". Be careful, I say, and He said, lest you think you are smarter than you are. Of course I am paraphrasing what I remember as I am not able to recall the exact passage. Lest I leave out the women let me say I believe God's Jesus was a view to God's caring side. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When he made us in his image in his labratory called Eden? Sounds very descriptive of genetic engineering by beings from another galaxy, more so than from the creator of the entire universe who only created one small group of people of the masses of humans already on the planet. The Other People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Ok, I'm really getting tired of this Genesis crap. I have to address this stupid post piece by piece. For my own peace of mind. Did any one watch that Jim Carey movie where he becomes God for a moment? Let me get this straight, you all want freedom to believe and do what ever you want when ever you want to. Yes. It's called 'liberty', 'freedom', etc. You know - the basis of our Greek-inspired democracy? You imply it's the same thing as licentiousness or hedonism. A very fundie way of looking at things. But have you considered being in God's place and having the power to stop all pain? How would YOU do it. Well, for starters I'd stop earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, bird flu, etc. from happening. Then I'd make anyone who wanted to harm a child spontaneously combust. That way, the people who want to do evil would be hurt instead of an innocent victim. I'd also be sending out angels to do things like protect orphans, guard hospitals, take out terrorists, etc. Why doesn't god do stuff like that? I believe you would begin by taking away certain freedoms that could cause pain. No, anybody who gets off on that could still go visit a dominatrix. What do I care? Why, didnt God warn Adam and Eve about the tree of knowledge? (humor me here, ok?) Ok. But technically, he did warn them. He didn't explain anything, but he did warn them. Why would He not want us to have all knowledge? Could it be that we might get into trouble with it? Kinda like a baby with power tools. You can give a child everything, but is everything safe? So what was the tree doing there in the first place? It wasn't safe for god to put that tree in the garden. So why did he? Like Hans said, would you put a cordless drill on a floor with a baby? And walk away? I am just wanting us all to think here, thats all. Contrary to what you might think of believers.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm thinking, man. You aren't. How anyone can take the obviously allegorical fable of Genesis and try to make it literal is beyond me. Dude, it has a talking snake! Even when I was a xtian, I didn't literally believe Genesis. To me, it, like a lot of the OT was just legend. I suspected it then, I realize it now. How can you, in good conscience, actually try to pawn this off as reality? It was obviously a primitive tribe's attempt at explaining where everything came from, including us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Yes and I wonder why a Christian would watch such a blasphemous movie?? Well, it seems that a movie can be both blasphemous but well liked by christians. After all, the Passion itself shows images that have nothing to do with the gospels, and lots to do with a german visionary, half - crazy woman mystic. But christians loved it anyway... And after all, see how the jim carrey movie is useful for the standard Xtian to justify the reasons why God doesn't do anything to change things for the better? So long as I am not violating another person's safety and well being, you see this as a problem how? Because the bible tells you so? He IS a Xtian after all. If the bible says something, then that something is true (or metaphor if uncomfortable!). Unicorns and dragons and talking snakes and donkeys.... Why have your creation be in turmoil for thousands and thousands of years and not do anything about it? Why should I have to consider being in god's place when the bible says that god will do those things? I would have done those things a long time ago before things got worse, IF I were god. But God has to wait because... umm... because... uh... Well that is a hard question, after all he just needed 7 days to create the universe... (...now that I think about it, why does an ALL POWERFUL divinity need to REST after creating something? Is his power finite, then?)... let's just say that god is a little late because he spent the latest thousand years watching the superbowl, and then maybe she got asleep on the couch. Um, so are you saying that heaven is taking away freedoms by having no pain? If god does something, it's good and righteous. If you do it, even if you have godlike power, it's sick and bad. *shrug* that is why god can kill, torture, and play sick mind games, but atheists aren't allowed the freedom to believe whatever they want, or not believe at all. Remember, there are people that were born and died who have not experienced this wonderful pain that brings growth, so is it fair if they just go to heaven without having had any pain? Shouldn't they have to suffer like the rest of us? Bit of a double standard, don't ya think? Perhaps hypocrisy would be a more appropriate terminology? Think "Middle ages". If you were a poor man, which didn't even possess the scraps of land he cultivated and the sheeps he cared for, you could wash away your sins by fasting, flailing yourself, doing absurd things like walking for the whole lenght of your town on your bare knees, in a word - suffering. Suffering was considered more precious that praying; after all, the church imposed latin for everything, from prayers to mass, so people "prayed"... by repeating words they didn't even understand, mechanically. So much for prayer. Noblemen and, later on, rich merchants, could instead afford to avoid praying and suffering altogether. They just sent a rich donation to the church... *buying* in advance absolution for a murder or a rape if they were so inclined... and keep sinning, knowing that they would've gone to heaven the moment they died. Sanctifying suffering caters to poor people. Offering an easy way to buy your ticket to heaven with cash caters to rich people. Those were marketing wizards! Personalized offers! Could we interest you in a used car, sir? The price is 400 GIL, OR you can buy the suffering packet, complete of 30 ave maria, 40 pater noster, 50 te deum, 1 month of fasting, and a good whipping. Or could it be that the ancient people who wrote Genesis wanted people to remain ignorant so that they could control the ignorant people? I think...yes. And it's still working as far as I can tell, I was ignorant of the truth for over 30 years. You are free now, rejoice. When I see people like Huntsvil, I feel even more happy that I broke those chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 The freedom to rape, murder, abuse and steal? Yes, I'd get rid of all people like that but not in a violent way, I'd just never allow them to exist so that the world could be peaceful for everyone else. This is something I've thought about before, if I was God and could make the world a better place, first I would plant a DNA code in every rapist, so when he tries to rape someone, he will get an electric shock - you know where. Secondly, and serial killer, murderer of any kind, I would put a little function in the brain, that each time they even thought about killing someone, they would faint, right there on the spot. Thirdly, a child/woman abuser, would get automatically get pain in his head, feet and hands each time he tried to hit someone. And this could be by simple reprogramming of the brain. He still have a choice, but it will hurt. Next, anyone that steals from someone else, will feel compelled to tell everyone, everywhere, what and from who he stole. And this is just the beginning. I wouldn't take away the free choice, but I would make it painful and difficult to chose the evil deeds. It's simple. God can do it, but he in his infinite "wisdom" doesn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Oh, perhaps even better would be strapping them into a chair with something holding their eyes open and making them watch Pat Boone videos over and over and over again. Something like that would make for good torture. How about Barney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 How about Barney? That's too cruel! Oh, scary thought! Maybe Barney is the Devil in disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Did any one watch that Jim Carey movie where he becomes God for a moment? Let me get this straight, you all want freedom to believe and do what ever you want when ever you want to. But have you considered being in God's place and having the power to stop all pain? How would YOU do it. I believe you would begin by taking away certain freedoms that could cause pain. Why, didnt God warn Adam and Eve about the tree of knowledge? (humor me here, ok?) Why would He not want us to have all knowledge? Could it be that we might get into trouble with it? Kinda like a baby with power tools. You can give a child everything, but is everything safe? I am just wanting us all to think here, thats all. Contrary to what you might think of believers. The first problem with your argument is that biblegod is not presented as mangod Carey was in Bruce Almighty. Biblegod is all powerful and all the other omnis that can be attributed are attributed to him. The second problem is that we are not ex Cs, nor are we atheists just because we want freedom. We know as well as anyone else that moderation is the norm and a extreme behavior can cause problems. We don't need biblegod to make us behave, reality does that quite well without him. Final problem is that the Eden story makes no sense. Eating fruit is not a bad thing. If there was some magical power to this fruit, why did god tempt them with it? If they were created perfect, why did temptation have any power over them? It's obviously a fairy tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Final problem is that the Eden story makes no sense. Eating fruit is not a bad thing. If there was some magical power to this fruit, why did god tempt them with it? If they were created perfect, why did temptation have any power over them? It's obviously a fairy tale. And why expose them to it in the first place? You've got two naive innocent beings wandering around a garden curious as we know little children to be, with no psychological construct in place to tell them the difference between right and wrong, therefore no concept of consequences for their actions. You stick a tree with "forbidden" fruit on it in the garden, and tell them not to touch it. Yeeeeah. Reminds me of the stove-top lesson. The first "do as I tell you, or you might get hurt somehow" lesson. Most of us carry scars from the "first lesson" for the rest of our lives, but not a ONE person on the planet gets through their formative years without experiencing this lesson in some way. The very fact that we ALL have that lesson under our belts, is the reason the Garden story has the impact it does. We can relate to suffering bad consequences as a result of not listening to our parental figures. You really think if it weren't for the snake in this story, those two would NEVER have eaten that fruit on their own? Please. Anyone who has spent more than 24 hours watching a toddler knows better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Let me get this straight, you all want freedom to believe and do what ever you want when ever you want to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Careful, dude. Your jealosy is showing. Only thing is, you say you all WANT freedom to believe and do whatever you please. Should be HAVE instead. You're gonna be REALLY pissed when you find out that you meet the same end that we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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