Jump to content

Wifely Submission


jlw1980
 Share

Recommended Posts

I was raised in Foursquare and A/G (a.k.a. crazytown) churches. Though I had a pretty happy childhood, I realize now that I did undergo some psychological abuse. For example, I was used as a political pawn for my mother's extremist anti-choice views. She'd take me to rallies where my sisters and I would carry signs, and see people get bottles thrown at them. She'd have us write letters to pro-choice companies, to tell them how reprehensible their views were. I remember doing this as young as about 5- or 6-years-old. Personally, at this point, I can't fathom using my small child to further my political agenda. It's disgusting. However, I got off on a tangent.

 

I just saw a highly disturbing status on FB. One of these people lamented about how difficult it is to submit to her husband, but how she so often gives in to her children. Obviously I responded that men and women should be equals and that there should be compromise. She said that the buy-bull says that her husband is the authority, but hers is over her children. I talked about how morally reprehensible this is, and how damaging it has been to women (and men) for eons. I also pointed out that the buy-bull says that slaves should submit to their masters, and asked if she believed that, too. It's been used to justify slavery in this country and others in the not-so-distant past. Of course I got no response to that. They don't like logical questions, because those could lead to conclusions they don't like. Plus I knew she couldn't answer it, even if she wanted to. Picking and choosing is so much fun, isn't it?!

 

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe! The brainwashing starts at such a young age, when kids can't think for themselves, really. I'm so lucky that I got away from it! The whole thing just INFURIATES me!!!! :vent:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe!

 

Honestly, there is an element of relief in being free from responsibility, which is what one gets when one is under another's authority. Many people wish desperately to defer responsibility. To gods, to the law, to other people. Being self-responsible is hard work.

 

Sounds like she is up for some of that hard work, as her authority isn't working out so well for her. However, her beliefs are preventing her from taking action.

 

Phanta

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always wondered why I had to be under authority to those who clearly had no idea what they were doing. Started with my useless parents and with that model I have always been able to see straight through those in charge who are idiots, and that is an awful lot of them.

 

I've been divorced twice because I won't toe the line. I am the master of my domain, no one else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the big reasons I was unhappy when we were going to church is the whole man is the authority and women have to submit, submit, submit. What the hell kind of crap is that? Hubby and I had a fine relationship and then we start going to church and listening to this drivel. Boy, was I unhappy. I would say that is one reason I couldn't fully support the Jesus bandwagon at that time. There were of course other issues. But the women as submissive putzes really frosts my hide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My X married a fundy and is full-on without cognizance of anything in their household. When our kids were still living with her I would have to wait 3 days before she would answer a question about them and then the answer would be prefaced with, "In Marks wisdom.........." Mark being her husband.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have often wondered where this hatred and fear of women came from? Because I do think that's what it is. Why else would one half of the human race be subjected to the other half? :shrug:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe!

 

Honestly, there is an element of relief in being free from responsibility, which is what one gets when one is under another's authority. Many people wish desperately to defer responsibility. To gods, to the law, to other people. Being self-responsible is hard work.

 

Sounds like she is up for some of that hard work, as her authority isn't working out so well for her. However, her beliefs are preventing her from taking action.

 

Phanta

Nothing wrong with being a submissive in the D/s context. Should be a matter of who you are though, not mandated by a barbaric religion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I married my husband, I did not promise to obey him.

 

Everything we decide, we decide by negotiation. Since we are both pretty easy going, and know that neither of us married an idiot, we respect each other's opinion. If one of us has expertise in a particular area, they explain it to the other party, and we work it out from there.

 

In the words of Prime Minister Julia Gillard, "I don't need Women's Lib. I was BORN free."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe!

 

Honestly, there is an element of relief in being free from responsibility, which is what one gets when one is under another's authority. Many people wish desperately to defer responsibility. To gods, to the law, to other people. Being self-responsible is hard work.

 

Sounds like she is up for some of that hard work, as her authority isn't working out so well for her. However, her beliefs are preventing her from taking action.

 

Phanta

Nothing wrong with being a submissive in the D/s context. Should be a matter of who you are though, not mandated by a barbaric religion.

 

I knew there were others on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The forced submission was probably one of the main reasons I got out of religion. We also took the obey (and a few other things) out of our wedding vows. I was not "given away" by my father (I had him walk me down the aisle, but skipped the "who gives this woman..." question part). It was my choice as a free adult - and this was still when I was in the middle of fundy land!!! No wonder I couldn't stick with it once I stopped being surrounded by it.

 

As to why any woman would want this - well, let's see: a) she's been brainwashed since before she was old enough to remember that as a female she is automatically less than males. b ) this practice is seen day-to-day in family, church, friends families, etc. c) Throughout her life this is continually reiterated...and unless she is willing to buck the system, she'll accept it - and that means standing up to family, friends, pastors, entire church bodies, and people she loves and respects. d) It is easier, for someone who doesn't want to have to take care of themselves or be ultimately responsible for their decisions.

 

So, while I just never could swallow this idea, my mother, church, friends (yes, even friends), pastors, etc sure all tried to make me. Thank goodness I was a tomboy to the core, and just never could accept that I was less than a guy just because I was born with the wrong diddly-bits....something I had no choice over, since I would have made a different decision had it been mine to make. I mean, as young as 2 years old I refused to wear flowers and threw fits over wearing a dress - at two! Long before you really realize there's a difference, I apparently knew there was, and wanted nothing to do with it. Guess it was a little too ingrained in my base personality to ever accept it...

 

On the contrast, my bff from pre-kindergarten through high school swallowed the idea hook, line, and sinker. And I would have said she was the stronger person when we were kids. Funny how brainwashing works...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Babylonian Dream

I don't understand why someone would want their spouse to submit to their authority. It seems it originated in a culture that had fears every woman would be promiscuous if you let them behave how they wanted. No clue where such misogyny would've began.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tribal superstition bullshit is the most likely source. And I find it repugnant, possibly beyond everything else religion imposes on people. Sexism has always been my berserk button and the way religion institutionalizes it and imposes that "Hi folks, I'm mercilessly and ridiculously oppressed but I have to smile and laugh and pretend it's a blessing because my so-called loving god will subject me to unimaginable horrors forever and ever and ever if I try to exercise my human right to independent thought and action against my husband's wishes" wrapper turns it from ethically reprehensible to justification for flaying priests, preachers and pastors alive with a potato peeler and wearing their skin as a coat, Buffalo Bill style.

 

The only time I expect submission from my girlfriend is in the bedroom when she's the one with the cuffs on and I'm...well, never mind the details. Suffice it to say she seems most receptive to the notion at those times, so I hardly think it's unwilling. Add to that the fact that I love the reversal of those roles every bit as much and I think it's safe to say it's not exactly what the buy-bull had in mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the women I know would first laugh themselves silly then smack the idiot upside da head for suggesting "submission."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know how much sexism was ingrained into me from the church as opposed to from the outside, but I do know that my mom was basically socialized to be submissive and serving all her youth by very religious grandparents. That meant that my early model for gender relations was having a dad who was the authority in essentially every context. Luckily, my sister broke free from that pattern, and seeing her do that actually helped me along on the road to deconversion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes I wish I could say "quit yelling at me and let me drink beer and watch TV" and have it actually work. :HaHa:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I grew up in a very Christian household, but my mother was far from the type to just submit without asking questions--hell, she wouldn't even wear a wedding ring because it symbolized bondage. If my dad were to ever try to push anything about her being submissive, she would say, "Kiss my fat ass," and flip him off with the one fingered salute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mother tried all her life to be submissive. She just wasn't. She managed to fit into the very religious community and have everybody's sympathy, so it worked out for her socially and religious-wise.

 

But the thought of submissive womanhood itself was repugnant to my very being. The universe itself couldn't beat me into submission, though logical reasoning will work providing it makes sense. Some of it does and some of it doesn't. (Someone mentioned independent thought--I must have been born thinking independently.)

 

So no, I never got married and neither did any of my sisters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have often wondered where this hatred and fear of women came from? Because I do think that's what it is.

 

So do I.

 

Probably from the mysterious "turning on" men experience from being in the presence of a "sexual" woman. Not understanding why they are "turned on," they think women have some kind of supernatural power over them.

 

The movie

about the European witch hunts may be helpful to understand the phenomenon. There's more than that one part but I can't find the rest right now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the links for Burning Times:

 

It's done by the Canadian Film Board. I hope it's available in other countries.

 

While I think this video provides insight on why men fear women, perhaps I should mention that it also has a fairly heavy emphasis on pre-Christian spirituality.

 

It is my opinion that one can take what is meaningful to oneself and leave the rest. What I found meaningful is the insight on why men fear women, what the video calls the "power of women." And this refers to such ancient concepts as the power of the womb to give life, and the shamanistic wisdom of healing.

 

The argument has been made that there was cooperative learning and sharing among the "wise women" who did these healing rituals so that there was some actual medicinal science involved. Men did not like that women held these powers of life in their hands. So the argument goes.

 

A female professor showed this video in her anthropology of religion class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really good - thanks :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have often wondered where this hatred and fear of women came from? Because I do think that's what it is.

 

So do I.

 

Probably from the mysterious "turning on" men experience from being in the presence of a "sexual" woman. Not understanding why they are "turned on," they think women have some kind of supernatural power over them.

 

That's probably part of it.

 

But I think the core is even simpler: humans tend to want to control other humans. Men tend to be physically larger and stronger than women. So women ended up in the submissive role, and social conventions reinforced it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The forced submission was probably one of the main reasons I got out of religion. We also took the obey (and a few other things) out of our wedding vows. I was not "given away" by my father (I had him walk me down the aisle, but skipped the "who gives this woman..." question part). It was my choice as a free adult

 

Same here! "Obey" was never part of it. I opted for a non-religious service. Nobody asked who gave me away since I gave myself away. I'm now divorced and will re-marry soon, but I couldn't stomach that the 1st time and I certainly won't this time. Of course, I already considered myself agnostic at that point. (Now I just say atheist.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe!

 

Honestly, there is an element of relief in being free from responsibility, which is what one gets when one is under another's authority. Many people wish desperately to defer responsibility. To gods, to the law, to other people. Being self-responsible is hard work.

 

I honestly think this is why so many marriages in the 1950's are still going on today. My parents are a good example. For a woman to find herself as a person would be virtually impossible in these kind of "woman must be submissive" roles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't understand why ANY woman would WANT to believe this tripe!

 

Honestly, there is an element of relief in being free from responsibility, which is what one gets when one is under another's authority. Many people wish desperately to defer responsibility. To gods, to the law, to other people. Being self-responsible is hard work.

 

Sounds like she is up for some of that hard work, as her authority isn't working out so well for her. However, her beliefs are preventing her from taking action.

 

Phanta

Nothing wrong with being a submissive in the D/s context. Should be a matter of who you are though, not mandated by a barbaric religion.

 

My mom's attitude is that a woman should be submissive to HER OWN husband (some translations have that wording, not sure what the originals say), but not to anyone else. That causes enough issues of its own, but at least I wasn't raised to be a doormat. Unfortunately, I am strongly sexually submissive (to the level of a clinical fetish or sexual orientation) and was really excited by the idea that when I was married, the Big Issues in life would all be someone else's problem/fault/responsibility. I'd grown up in a sheltered environment where I was not allowed to make a lot of choices (not because I was female, just because I was a child; they treat my brother the same way), so every time I was supposed to be responsible for something I'd get bad anxiety and maybe panic attacks. It's taken years of friends pushing me and getting a shrink to start to get over that and actually live my own life. It hurts a lot sometimes, and I'm still not entirely convinced it's worth it. But I do know that it's better/happier to be responsible for myself than to submit to someone who's not strong, sensitive, and mature enough to make good choices for me. The best dominants I've had are the ones who point out to me that they are just as human as I am, and refuse to make too many choices for me (bonus points if they also tell me they believe in my ability to take care of myself even when I don't).

 

So I understand why a woman (or man, really) would want to find a leader to follow so that life would be simpler and easier. What I don't get is why someone would continue to submit to an irresponsible leader that makes them unhappy. I guess the same thing that makes women go along with being submissive also keeps people in destructive cults.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My X married a fundy and is full-on without cognizance of anything in their household. When our kids were still living with her I would have to wait 3 days before she would answer a question about them and then the answer would be prefaced with, "In Marks wisdom.........." Mark being her husband.

 

 

:twitch:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.