An example of Evolution

[MQTA]

While reading some posts I got this sudden flash.

 

An abstract analogy of the perfect Evolution example:

 

Christianity

 

Christians like to believe it was Created, 2000 years ago, in 6 days (with the 3 day resurrection smack dab in the middle).

 

But, no, it Evolved.

 

The spark happened 2000 years ago, and survival of the fittest (letters) survived, and mutated each step of the way.

 

 

If you look at the Branch of Life, put Day 1 of the Ministry at the top and watch it branch off into different life paths. They all have the same common ancestor, but developed way differently.

 

Compare an Evolution graphic of the branches of life and Christianity, side by side, it may look quite similar.

 

I think the history of Christianity is the perfect example of Evolution from a common ancestor.

[Lunar Shadow]

Very interesting thought there MQTA I can defiantly see where you draw you parallel from... It is an interesting idea to ponder. There church has evolved in to many different sects so much so that there are books that show the history of the many splits that the church as gone through to this date I know there is one such book by one Dr. M. James Sawyer just to name one of the top of my head.

 

It is something I had never thought about before. How can a Xtian not believe in evolution when it IS indeed right under their noses?

 

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Interesting point, MQTA! There's also a book called Lost Christianities

that's out now, which describes the various sects of christianity (such as

the Marcionites) that went extinct during the first 400 years or so of its

existence. Of course, the victors of that struggle for existence had the

privilege of calling these extinct sects 'heresies.'

[MQTA]

History is written by the winners.

[Lunar Shadow]

History is written by the winners.

 

 

You're not kidding

[spamandham]

The very basic underpinning of evolution applies to all positive feedback loops (self reinforcing systems). The process always reaches a point where it can no longer grow unbounded, and so that which is best suited to the specific conditions present wins. The basics of evolution apply not only to biological evolution, but to religions (as pointed out in the opening post), politics, the competitive market place, tornados, etc.

 

You can perform a simple and easy demonstartion of the basic concept that underlies evolution with any amplifier/microphone combination (karaoki machine, guitar amp, etc).

 

Just turn the amp on and place the mic nearby to hear the feedback. If you adjust the volume levels until the feedback just barely starts, you can hear the intermediate losing sounds be drowned out by the winning tone - the one most suited to reproduction by the equipment and distance combination. This is the basic principle of evolution at play.

[MQTA]

The Evolution of Christianity 

 

Christianity itself has evolved over the centuries. In order to survive it has had to change an adapt. Many religions and many branches of Christianity have become extinct over the centuries. In order to survive, Christianity has had to merge with the cultures of other religions. For example, Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Christmas was originally Yule and people cut down and decorated trees long before Christ was born. Easter had nothing to do with Christ rising from the dead. Easter was a pagan fertility ritual where pagans prayed to the Gods for reproduction and food. Hence, the rabbits and the eggs.

 

The religions of the world are threatened by modern science. We humans have evolved to the point where we know a lot more than we ever did and we now know that a lot of what we believed for centuries is just plain wrong. However, we humans are still herd animals and it is our instinctive nature to continue to believe what the tribe believes rather than what's logical. Our minds have not yet evolved to the point where logic and reason dominates over tribal patterns. (Except for me of course. That's why I'm writing this.) But because of technology, and especially computers, the day is coming where the rest of humanity can move up to my level and beyond. (Sorry, it's not ego, it's my warped sense of humor. In your heart you know I'm right though.)

 

As religion evolves people will turn from mythology to reality. As humans become smarter, people will want to understand the real world the way it really is. The 21st century will be the century of the global mind and the Church of Reality will evolve into the dominate religion on the planet. And I will go down in history as the Dalai Lama of nerds. 

[MQTA]

Why People don't like Evolution 

 

People don't like the idea of evolution because of our fear of death and that we like to think of ourselves as something special. The idea that we "came from monkeys" is as disgusting as sex. If God made man in his image and we are the only life in the universe and we are dominate over all other things and we're going to live forever, that would be a great reality for us. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is.

 

On the other hand, this planet is but a speck of dust in the universe. We are a small planet rotating around a star that is one of billions of stars in a galaxy that is one of billions of galaxies in a universe that existed for billions of years. The universe is likely teaming with life, some of which is so evolved that they would never visit here because we are too primitive to even be considered interesting, unless we were considered tasty food. We exist as a result of random chance and the only reason we exist is because our parents and their parents before them gave into overwhelming sexual instincts, like the animals have, and we were formed as a chance DNA combination. We exist for no other reason.

 

Now, which one would you rather believe? It's simple. We would all rather believe that we are special and that God has a special purpose for us and that we are important. But which one is real? The one we would rather believe? Or do we believe what is supported by scientific fact. Sometimes what we want and the way things are not the same. It takes courage to believe in what's real. Those who are afraid of what's real are attached to maintaining the illusion of a creation rather than facing the facts. The reason I'm here is because my father didn't have it together enough to use a condom properly. It's that simple. 

[Razor]

So your saying that, a way of being aware of our creator was made known to us, and that belief system evolved from there.

 

I am not against evolution, I never have been, I believe that Creation and Evolution go hand in hand, after all you have to create somthing first for it to then evolve.

 

What I do not agree with is the time frame man sets on Evolution.

Who said that this all took only 6000 or whatever years?

Who defined that a day for a man is a day for God?

 

For all we know a day for God could be a Billion of our years, so who set the rules for time frame Men ?

 

For all we know God can stop time as we know it (Eternity)

 

So as you can see, I have never been an oponent of Evolution or Creation, in my own personal opinion Creation versus Evolution is Folly.

They go together.

 

Peace

[quicksand]

So your saying that, a way of being aware of our creator was made known to us, and that belief system evolved from there.

Razor, MQTA is not stating that evolution is a way to “know” the creator - whatever that means. He is simply drawing a parallel between the evolution of species to the evolution of Christianity. Sorry, gonna scold you here but I think I speak collectively here that a little understanding about the origins of Christianity and even a quick study of 4th and 5th century Rome and the influence of imperial power upon the religion, shows that Xianity is in fact chop-suey. (Lots of disparate ingredients but one dish essentiality.)

 

Like religion and the origin of species (not the origin of life) we have a pretty good idea how the defraction of other species works as well as religion to the present time. A further parellel is language. Latin for instance.

 

 

Oh and what Professor Spam said.

 

I am not against evolution, I never have been, I believe that Creation and Evolution go hand in hand, after all you have to create somthing first for it to then evolve.

And if science overthrows this commonly uttered argument by ignorance or gap in knowledge, will you abandon your belief that life was directly created by the “man” since you state that you are not against evolution as you put it.

 

What I do not agree with is the time frame man sets on Evolution.

Who said that this all took only 6000 or whatever years?

Who defined that a day for a man is a day for God?

Carbon or argon dating for one pretty much dashes this 2 Peter 3:8 time frame which you are proposing.

 

Also, this type of creationism you are proposing is actually disputed by other Creationists of the Old Earth variety like the recently deceased (Praise Krnsa!) Micheal Cremo. He believes according to the Vedas that humans are literally millions and millions of years old.

 

Sorry, I stick to instrumentation and objective means of establishing these trivial problems to us now.

 

For all we know a day for God could be a Billion of our years, so who set the rules  for time frame Men ?

 

For all we know God can stop time as we know it (Eternity)

Och. This is an old apologetic trick. Perhaps a better argument that the Earth is 6K old and things only test older by carbon or argon dating because God makes it test that way and look that way.

 

Try that one. We have refuters standing by....

 

So as you can see, I have never been an oponent of Evolution or Creation, in my own personal opinion Creation versus Evolution is Folly.

They go together.

They are mutually exclusive as the question of the origin of species. As long as you see that, then you can not make arguments for YEC which are empirically demonstrated as wrong. Homo spaines are at least 250K to 150K old.

[Antlerman]

What I do not agree with is the time frame man sets on Evolution.

Who said that this all took only 6000 or whatever years?

Who defined that a day for a man is a day for God?

 

For all we know a day for God could be a Billion of our years, so who set the rules  for time frame Men ?

Of course I recognize this as the week apologist’s response, "A day to the lord is as a thousand years" excuse. But even if we accept this response, then let's skip over those first 6 "days" (or epochs if you prefer). The geologies in the Bible are in man's years, not God years. Those geologies still put the existence of man - after the creation - at only 6000 years.

 

If you accept modern science and the Theory of Evolution, you appear to now have a problem reconciling your Bible dates with those of science. Which one is incorrect Razor? Is it science? If so then why do you say you accept Evolution? If it's the Bible, then why do you still believe it's real history?

[Ouroboros]

So as you can see, I have never been an oponent of Evolution or Creation, in my own personal opinion Creation versus Evolution is Folly.

They go together.

Feels good to have a few Christians that actually use their brain in our midst.

 

Kudos, Razor.

 

--edit--

 

With time, you'll let go of more of the Biblical folly, in exchange for observable facts.

 

 

To explain my statement above:

 

Few Christians admit that there is the possibility that God (if he exists) used Big Bang and Evolution to create the universe and the humans. It doesn't have to be a conflict of interest to believe in God and in science simultaneous. It seems like most believers today, demands all or nothing in their faith. They want to interpret the Genesis literary, but Jesus words "poison won't hurt you" as spiritual. Which leads to believe that Christians today rather believe Moses' and Paul's words as more true than Jesus' (ihe) own words.