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Goodbye Jesus

A Few Questions..


JadedAtheist

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I couldn't figure out where the best place to post this was so I decided this would be the best bet.

 

Though I switched from Christianity to Atheism quite quickly I am still open (depending on my mood I guess) to the thoughts of a spiritual existence. I realize this forum here is more catered towards people discussing their beliefs without having to justify them so please forgive me if this feels like some sort of an intrusion (I know I'd hate to justify my atheism constantly) but I am genuinely interested in exploring spirituality so with that in mind a few questions:

 

Note: I just want to say that though I may come across as harsh or critical that isn't my intent.

  1. What are your beliefs? (If you have a testimony already just link to it if you'd rather)
  2. Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically? In other words, if you're a pagan do you believe that Thor (or whomever) is real or just a concept et cetera? Or, if you're a Buddhist do you adhere strictly to you're particular "denomination" or you take the bits and pieces you like?
  3. If your belief isn't a literal understanding (i.e. Thor is real) than what's the point? By that I mean, you're basically an agnostic/atheist who performs rituals that are knowingly futile. (Unless of course it's just a life philosophy that you like and thus try to adhere to it otherwise you might just find it "cool" or whatever).
  4. If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life? By that I mean most religions seem to be mancentric so where do animals fit into the spiritual realm?

Anyways, where I am at right now is a weird place. If people ask me what I believe I will tell them I'm an atheist as that seems to be the only glove that fits at the moment. I cannot reconcile what is happening in the world and have at the same time a personal God. I also see nothing to convince me of a soul or anything of that nature. Yet, for some reason I have this nagging feeling there must be more (it could be just my fear of death not accepting the inevitable). I'm a bit apprehensive in saying this but at the moment if I picture that if I am wrong about my naturalism and atheism and there is an afterlife, it will be shared by all life here on Earth and not just humanity. I cannot help but feel we are all linked in some sort of "spiritual" way.

 

Anyways, thanks for the replies (if I get any :P ) and I look forward to hearing from y'all!

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1- This is a very broad topic, it's rather like asking someone to explain what color is to a blind person. (I am not saying that if you have no religion you are blind, just using an expression to illustrate that it is difficult to explain.) If you are looking for a religion, mine would be Wicca.

 

2- I believe that all gods are just another aspect of the divine, though I do not believe there are gods living atop Mount Olympus I think there is something supernatural "out there."

 

3- Why believe in ritual if you don't think that your gods are literally true? I suppose the question could be reversed: why believe in ritual if your gods are literally true? I may have misunderstood the question but it seems like you are asking "why have faith if you aren't worried about something looking over your shoulder?" As far as ritual goes, even if there is no such thing as magick or any supernatural phenomenon ritual can still put my mind at ease and influence my behavior.

 

4- I do not feel like my faith has any contradiction to evolution in it. I think we should respect all living things and everything in nature.

 

I hope these answered some of your questions and I welcome you to ask more because if I cannot talk to others about my religion I fear that I will stop growing in it. Answering questions and thinking about my responses what they mean help me to grow as a person and have a more complete understanding of myself and my gods.

 

EDIT: FIRST!!!!

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I couldn't figure out where the best place to post this was so I decided this would be the best bet.

 

Though I switched from Christianity to Atheism quite quickly I am still open (depending on my mood I guess) to the thoughts of a spiritual existence. I realize this forum here is more catered towards people discussing their beliefs without having to justify them so please forgive me if this feels like some sort of an intrusion (I know I'd hate to justify my atheism constantly) but I am genuinely interested in exploring spirituality so with that in mind a few questions:

 

Note: I just want to say that though I may come across as harsh or critical that isn't my intent.

  1. What are your beliefs? (If you have a testimony already just link to it if you'd rather)
  2. Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically? In other words, if you're a pagan do you believe that Thor (or whomever) is real or just a concept et cetera? Or, if you're a Buddhist do you adhere strictly to you're particular "denomination" or you take the bits and pieces you like?
  3. If your belief isn't a literal understanding (i.e. Thor is real) than what's the point? By that I mean, you're basically an agnostic/atheist who performs rituals that are knowingly futile. (Unless of course it's just a life philosophy that you like and thus try to adhere to it otherwise you might just find it "cool" or whatever).
  4. If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life? By that I mean most religions seem to be mancentric so where do animals fit into the spiritual realm?

Anyways, where I am at right now is a weird place. If people ask me what I believe I will tell them I'm an atheist as that seems to be the only glove that fits at the moment. I cannot reconcile what is happening in the world and have at the same time a personal God. I also see nothing to convince me of a soul or anything of that nature. Yet, for some reason I have this nagging feeling there must be more (it could be just my fear of death not accepting the inevitable). I'm a bit apprehensive in saying this but at the moment if I picture that if I am wrong about my naturalism and atheism and there is an afterlife, it will be shared by all life here on Earth and not just humanity. I cannot help but feel we are all linked in some sort of "spiritual" way.

 

Anyways, thanks for the replies (if I get any :P ) and I look forward to hearing from y'all!

I just wanted to quote the whole post in total to say, wow. This is an incredible expression of sincerity that makes does my heart such good. I relate to this on many levels and respect it completely. Now to my specific responses for you....

 

What are your beliefs? (If you have a testimony already just link to it if you'd rather)

I do, but it's older and have evolved my thoughts since then. The 3 part testimony within the same thread is located here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/6730-my-testimony-part-1-of/page__p__136900__fromsearch__1#entry136900

 

Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically?

Both! I believe them to be true, but they are only expressed metaphorically, when you approach the essence of them. :) Hard to explain, but true.

 

 

If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life? By that I mean most religions seem to be mancentric so where do animals fit into the spiritual realm?

I fully accept and embrace the knowledge of evolution. Yes, you are correct that most religions are anthrocentric, they are a necessary stage, it seems. Where do animals fit into the spiritual realm? Everything fits in. We are all expressions of the Spiritual, as I see it. The more evolved, the greater the exposure of the depths of the Divine. Our depth is greater than the ape, but they as well as us, are part of That.

 

I also see nothing to convince me of a soul or anything of that nature.

My suggestion? Look within, not without.

 

Yet, for some reason I have this nagging feeling there must be more (it could be just my fear of death not accepting the inevitable).

I'm chuckling. I'd say explore that without any "doctrines" suggesting to you what "reality" is. It's something inside you. Explore that, and be true to that. Everyone is looking for Answers™, to call their "truth". The Truth lives inside. That is my 'religion', if you call it that. It transcends any creed, dogma, or science. It lives. It is frankly Life.

 

I know this boat you describe, quite, very well.

 

I cannot help but feel we are all linked in some sort of "spiritual" way.

Ahhh.... you intuit what is the Divine in my world understanding. Refreshing....

 

 

Peace

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Thanks for the replies guys, keep 'em coming :)

 

2- I believe that all gods are just another aspect of the divine, though I do not believe there are gods living atop Mount Olympus I think there is something supernatural "out there."

 

Could you elaborate a bit on this? By "all gods are just another aspect of the divine" do you mean that these gods are just attempts by man to understand something that transcends him?

3- Why believe in ritual if you don't think that your gods are literally true? I suppose the question could be reversed: why believe in ritual if your gods are literally true? I may have misunderstood the question but it seems like you are asking "why have faith if you aren't worried about something looking over your shoulder?" As far as ritual goes, even if there is no such thing as magick or any supernatural phenomenon ritual can still put my mind at ease and influence my behavior.

I guess what I meant was what is the point of praying, rain dancing or whatever else it may be if there is no possibility of it working. I realize that a valid answer may be the psychological benefit you may receive from such tasks as even after I left Christianity I did for a time feel the washing wave of forgiveness whenever I "confessed my sins".

 

I do, but it's older and have evolved my thoughts since then. The 3 part testimony within the same thread is located here

Thanks for sharing that, I'll be reading it after I finish this post :)

I fully accept and embrace the knowledge of evolution. Yes, you are correct that most religions are anthrocentric, they are a necessary stage, it seems. Where do animals fit into the spiritual realm? Everything fits in. We are all expressions of the Spiritual, as I see it. The more evolved, the greater the exposure of the depths of the Divine. Our depth is greater than the ape, but they as well as us, are part of That.

 

This is my thinking as well. If some sort of spirituality is true than as we ascend up the evolutionary tree we progress to a further understanding and comprehension of the spiritual realm. We are all involved as we are all linked to what transcends us.

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Interesting questions. Thank you for your sincere inquiry.

 

What are your beliefs? (If you have a testimony already just link to it if you'd rather)

 

Vajarayana Buddhism. Please see my blog (click under avatar). I just started working on it, but intend to add to it.

Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically? In other words, if you're a pagan do you believe that Thor (or whomever) is real or just a concept et cetera? Or, if you're a Buddhist do you adhere strictly to you're particular "denomination" or you take the bits and pieces you like?

 

I started out with Zen Buddhism and then I found another Dharma center closer to home. It was started by two lamas from Tibet in the early 1990s. I now try to more or less strictly adhere to what is taught there in order not to confuse myself. There are lots of Buddhist teachers around but you are limited to what you can find in your town or city as to what variety.

 

Literally? I don't think that question applies so much to Buddhism, since its truth is not dependent on the actual happening of historical events like Christianity is. If you ask me do I think Padmasambhava just appeared one day without being born, I would say no. I take those kinds of stories metaphorically. Buddhism is about the mind, not certain events in the past.

 

If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life? By that I mean most religions seem to be mancentric so where do animals fit into the spiritual realm?

 

As far as I can tell there is no conflict with evolution or modern science in Buddhism. I am not a scientist but from what I have read of quantum physics there seems to be a lot of agreement with the basic Buddhist world view.

 

In Vajayana Buddhism animals are considered to be sentient beings and there is reincarnation both into and out of the realm of animals to humans. The animal realm is considered one of suffering, not a desirable place to be. It is taught that we have taken innumerable forms, most of them animal, over uncounted lifetimes. So, there is a continuity between animals and humans.

 

There are also god realms, but the "gods" are nothing like the Christian version as they are not omniscient, not omnipotent and do not live forever. Their lives eventually end and then they inevitably go back to a lower realm of existence.

 

I spent about 10 years without any type of religion after I left Christianity, then I became gradually more and more interested in the eastern view. I read Hindu teachers as well. It just conforms better with how I view the world.

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Could you elaborate a bit on this? By "all gods are just another aspect of the divine" do you mean that these gods are just attempts by man to understand something that transcends him?

 

More or less this would be accurate. I think that Wicca more or less cuts the totality of the divine into two equal and important parts the masculine and feminine. Both are supposed to be equal although some traditions seem to believe that the horned god is somehow less than the goddess. I suppose the most common analogy would be a multifaceted jewel where every side of the jewel would represent a different god or goddess. No single god will give you the total picture of the divine but each are a part of it.

I guess what I meant was what is the point of praying, rain dancing or whatever else it may be if there is no possibility of it working. I realize that a valid answer may be the psychological benefit you may receive from such tasks as even after I left Christianity I did for a time feel the washing wave of forgiveness whenever I "confessed my sins".

 

I think your premise is flawed. I believe that my magick works and that there is a good chance it will work. I gave you the most logical and least faith-based response I could, because I thought that is what you were looking for.

 

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1. What are your beliefs?

2. Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically?

3. If your belief isn't a literal understanding (i.e. Thor is real) than what's the point?

4. If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life?

 

1. Asatru - the attempted reconstruction of the prechristian religion of the Germanic and Scandinavian people

2. Pretty much metaphorically. Your words "the deities are just concepts" are a little bit too far for me - I wouldn't rule out that some "pesonality" may be involved - but that's still a long way from believing in the sagas literally :)

3. Umm... I don't practice my faith to gain anything (salvation, pie-in-the-sky, younameit) but because I feel like it so... :)

4. Why should there be a problem? The sagas (including the Asatru creation myth) are exactly that - sagas. ;)

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Anyways, where I am at right now is a weird place. If people ask me what I believe I will tell them I'm an atheist as that seems to be the only glove that fits at the moment. I cannot reconcile what is happening in the world and have at the same time a personal God. I also see nothing to convince me of a soul or anything of that nature. Yet, for some reason I have this nagging feeling there must be more (it could be just my fear of death not accepting the inevitable). I'm a bit apprehensive in saying this but at the moment if I picture that if I am wrong about my naturalism and atheism and there is an afterlife, it will be shared by all life here on Earth and not just humanity. I cannot help but feel we are all linked in some sort of "spiritual" way.

 

Anyways, thanks for the replies (if I get any :P ) and I look forward to hearing from y'all!

 

I'm an atheist and naturalist and existentialist, but no spirituality and no belief in an afterlife except as part of the natural cycle on the planet.

 

Yes, ALL life forms on earth are linked, but, only in a practical and evolutionary sense. All life forms depend on each other on this planet. For food, shelter, for the very air that we and other creatures breath, we are all dependent for our lives on the death of other life forms.

 

The natural cycle is that when life forms die, they become sustenance for other life forms, this is how life has continued on the planet for so long. We become food or topsoil, which sustains other life forms. In essence, we do have an afterlife, but as part of another life form. Our chemicals and elements are taken up by other life forms and in effect, we live on as part of that life form.

 

As a long time atheist, I accepted many years ago that my death as a human would be final, but I'd become part of other life forms.

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I think your premise is flawed. I believe that my magick works and that there is a good chance it will work. I gave you the most logical and least faith-based response I could, because I thought that is what you were looking for.

 

No worries. If you believe it works than that of course is enough reason for you to do it. Thanks for clarifying it all.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to check your blog. I was just curious how do you discern the fables from reality? For example what assures you that there are multiple levels of existence but Padmasambhava appearing out of nowhere is only a fable or a metaphor? I realize this may be a really in depth question so just give me this gist of it if it helps :)

 

Fair enough! Any reason that you were attracted to that rather than more "mainstream" versions of paganism? Is it very popular in Germany?

 

Thanks for the replies guys, keep 'em coming :)

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Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to check your blog. I was just curious how do you discern the fables from reality? For example what assures you that there are multiple levels of existence but Padmasambhava appearing out of nowhere is only a fable or a metaphor? I realize this may be a really in depth question so just give me this gist of it if it helps :)

 

I don't think there are "multiple levels of existence". Then again, not sure what you mean by that. If by that you mean "levels of awareness" yes, I do think there are levels of awareness. Some people are more aware of their surroundings than others and some are much more self-aware than others.

 

I think there is an absolute reality and a relative reality but I would not call that "levels of existence." We cannot see everything there is. The mind only takes in a certain amount of information. That is a fact. What we ordinarily experience and operate from is relative reality. We do not see atoms, we do not see subatomic particles, etc.

 

Not sure why you would think I have difficulty separating fables from reality. Padmasambhava appearing out of nowhere is a metaphor. Metaphors can be powerful illustrations of truth. It isn't "only" a metaphor.

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Metaphors can be powerful illustrations of truth. It isn't "only" a metaphor.

 

I don't believe in a personal God or follow a particular faith path, but I affirm and embrace this concept. I have had some interesting experiences where I felt the power of a symbol in my life. There was no "only".

 

Phanta

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Fair enough! Any reason that you were attracted to that rather than more "mainstream" versions of paganism? Is it very popular in Germany?

 

Well I wasn't "attracted to it and began to examine it"... it hit me out of the blue :)

Over the years I had compiled a list of books I should read some day, and among those books was the Poetic Edda. So, the evening came when I started working on it, and... before I was done with the 2nd page I had an overwhelming feeling of "home at last!". If there can ever be an honest religious revelation, this was it ;)

 

As for popularity, nope. It's actually a faith that kind of divides the German people because quite a few "self-proclaimed decent citizens" "know exactly" that Asatru is "the nazi faith". I haven't been called a fascist scumbag yet just because I wear a Mjolnir necklace, but I know people who were. In some places you run an increased risk of getting stopped by the police if you openly display a Mjolnir, or runes or other "ancient Germanic symbols". It's sad but - I guess - just another case of the German post-war paranoia regarding anything that might possibly be connected to the rightards of old. :shrug:

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What are your beliefs?

A direct pointing to the mind;

Not relying on words or letters.

Awaken and become a Buddha.

 

Do you take your newfound belief literally or metaphorically? In other words, if you're a pagan do you believe that Thor (or whomever) is real or just a concept et cetera? Or, if you're a Buddhist do you adhere strictly to you're particular "denomination" or you take the bits and pieces you like?

If one does not rely on words and letters, can anything be taken literally or metaphorically?

 

If your belief isn't a literal understanding (i.e. Thor is real) than what's the point? By that I mean, you're basically an agnostic/atheist who performs rituals that are knowingly futile. (Unless of course it's just a life philosophy that you like and thus try to adhere to it otherwise you might just find it "cool" or whatever).

Are we talking about beliefs, understandings, or rituals? Is not “the point” exactly what one sets out to discover?

 

If you're an evolutionist how do you reconcile your belief with other animal life? By that I mean most religions seem to be mancentric so where do animals fit into the spiritual realm?

Birds fly;

Fish swim.

Where is their place?

Ask one of them.

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I don't think there are "multiple levels of existence". Then again, not sure what you mean by that. If by that you mean "levels of awareness" yes, I do think there are levels of awareness. Some people are more aware of their surroundings than others and some are much more self-aware than others.

 

 

I think there is an absolute reality and a relative reality but I would not call that "levels of existence." We cannot see everything there is. The mind only takes in a certain amount of information. That is a fact. What we ordinarily experience and operate from is relative reality. We do not see atoms, we do not see subatomic particles, etc

 

 

So, you don't believe you'll die and become another human being, god or animal?

 

 

Not sure why you would think I have difficulty separating fables from reality. Padmasambhava appearing out of nowhere is a metaphor. Metaphors can be powerful illustrations of truth. It isn't "only" a metaphor.

 

I should probably clarify myself here. Is the Buddhists texts mainly written as literal texts (like the Bible, or at leas the NT epistles) or are they written primarily as metaphors and so forth? If they are a mix how do you determine what is a metaphor and what isn't?(I'm just coming at it from a biblical hermeneutics mindset, can't help it :P ) Perhaps it's pretty straightforward but reading up on this guy it seems to me people intend for this story to be understood as a fact not as a metaphor. What makes you choose to interpret it as a metaphor when others take it literally? (I hope I've cleared myself up instead of fogging it up more :P )

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So, you don't believe you'll die and become another human being, god or animal?

 

No. It has nothing to do with belief in some set of ideas.

 

I should probably clarify myself here. Is the Buddhists texts mainly written as literal texts (like the Bible, or at leas the NT epistles) or are they written primarily as metaphors and so forth? If they are a mix how do you determine what is a metaphor and what isn't?(I'm just coming at it from a biblical hermeneutics mindset, can't help it :P ) Perhaps it's pretty straightforward but reading up on this guy it seems to me people intend for this story to be understood as a fact not as a metaphor. What makes you choose to interpret it as a metaphor when others take it literally? (I hope I've cleared myself up instead of fogging it up more :P )

 

I honestly don't know how the authors intended them to be read. I really haven't read that many Buddhist texts. It seems to me that if people did not at some point find them valuable, they would not have been preserved. I realize that the same could be said of the Bible and other books. Its worth a look to see whether or not the view of reality conforms with everyday experience of life, and whether or not it is helpful in confronting the difficulties of life.

 

For myself, the method the Buddha pointed out that leads to freedom from mental suffering is something to be tested. The Four Noble Truths, the eightfold path, etc. I am not bothered by texts that tell of miraculous things that happened a long time ago.

 

So, I am in the process of testing. Do I feel I have to believe something is 100% literally true to be on the Buddhist path? No. Questioning is OK.

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No. It has nothing to do with belief in some set of ideas.

 

I honestly don't know how the authors intended them to be read. I really haven't read that many Buddhist texts. It seems to me that if people did not at some point find them valuable, they would not have been preserved. I realize that the same could be said of the Bible and other books. Its worth a look to see whether or not the view of reality conforms with everyday experience of life, and whether or not it is helpful in confronting the difficulties of life.

 

For myself, the method the Buddha pointed out that leads to freedom from mental suffering is something to be tested. The Four Noble Truths, the eightfold path, etc. I am not bothered by texts that tell of miraculous things that happened a long time ago.

 

So, I am in the process of testing. Do I feel I have to believe something is 100% literally true to be on the Buddhist path? No. Questioning is OK.

 

 

Okay, so since you do not believe in reincarnation (if I am understanding you correctly) would you say that your take on Buddhism is more of a life philosophy than a religious belief? The reason I ask is that reincarnation seems to me to be a rather big (or central) component of the religious belief in that the whole point of enlightenment (nirvana or whatever may be the appropriate term) is to escape the viscous cycle of reincarnation caused by the constant accumulation of bad karma. Life is suffering, nothingness is peace. Sorry to keep pestering you btw :)

 

 

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If I may interject something here in support of Deva's position regarding texts.

 

What a lot of people forget is that Buddhism is not a personality based religion like Christianity. So if a text says that "so and so" appeared out of nowhere, shot a light out of his mouth, or flew through the air - it doesn't really matter. What matters is what the character offers as a teaching. Even then this teaching is to be internalized through one's personal insight and wisdom combined with one's direct experience.

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No. It has nothing to do with belief in some set of ideas.

 

I honestly don't know how the authors intended them to be read. I really haven't read that many Buddhist texts. It seems to me that if people did not at some point find them valuable, they would not have been preserved. I realize that the same could be said of the Bible and other books. Its worth a look to see whether or not the view of reality conforms with everyday experience of life, and whether or not it is helpful in confronting the difficulties of life.

 

For myself, the method the Buddha pointed out that leads to freedom from mental suffering is something to be tested. The Four Noble Truths, the eightfold path, etc. I am not bothered by texts that tell of miraculous things that happened a long time ago.

 

So, I am in the process of testing. Do I feel I have to believe something is 100% literally true to be on the Buddhist path? No. Questioning is OK.

 

 

Okay, so since you do not believe in reincarnation (if I am understanding you correctly) would you say that your take on Buddhism is more of a life philosophy than a religious belief? The reason I ask is that reincarnation seems to me to be a rather big (or central) component of the religious belief in that the whole point of enlightenment (nirvana or whatever may be the appropriate term) is to escape the viscous cycle of reincarnation caused by the constant accumulation of bad karma. Life is suffering, nothingness is peace. Sorry to keep pestering you btw :)

 

 

 

I actually do accept reincarnation, and think it is an important part of the Buddhist view, but I am not really interested in debating it here. I consider Buddhism more of a view of life or a philosophy overall than a "religious belief" because its a method more than a belief, although I think that there is faith involved in aspects of it. This is complex and I don't have enough time to go into it, but It isn't dependent on your believing something occurred in history, like Christianity is.

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I actually do accept reincarnation, and think it is an important part of the Buddhist view, but I am not really interested in debating it here. I consider Buddhism more of a view of life or a philosophy overall than a "religious belief" because its a method more than a belief, although I think that there is faith involved in aspects of it. This is complex and I don't have enough time to go into it, but It isn't dependent on your believing something occurred in history, like Christianity is.

 

Thanks for your replies. I'm not here to debate you, simply curious. Thanks for your answers, they have been most useful :)

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EDIT: FIRST!!!!

 

 

Dude you can't edit a FIRST!!!! there are rules to that.

 

 

Anyway.

 

1) my belief, if it coud even be called that, can be found here. That said there isn't really anything to believe in. If you take the time to read some of the teachings, then take what works and leave the rest. There is ALOT there and much of it I have no use for. While I find the information about the paranormal, aliens, and such exciting to the adolesent geek in me, I also keep in mind I have no evidence for it.

 

What I get most out the teaching is what I try to communicate on this site. Your life is your choice. The purpose of life is the living of it. Decide then act. The rest is kinda interesting mental fluff that is fun to play around with.

 

Often, a channeling will come through that I will not get at all, then I'll read it months or weeks later and parts will make sense. I alway find the information intersting.

 

And just like with Thurisaz i had a profound sense that this was correct and where I needed to be. It felt like putting on that old coat you find in the back of the closet.

 

2) I think I answered this mostly already. To elaborate, I think that Micheal is a real entity. I believe there is a soul. I am pretty certian that we do reincarnate. I have had what can only be descibed as visions of past lives. Some in battle, some as a homemaker, some as children. Could I prove it scientifically no. But I don't need to. My experience were for my learning and evolution. I will share them if asked, because it may help others.

 

Mostly, I think the teachings are presented metaphorically as a teaching tool to describe literal mechanisms.

 

3) moot point as there are no rituals.

 

4) One of the teachings is this. There are hive souls (animals) and fragment (sentient life: Humans, whales, dolphins, and about 30 gorillas). The Tao would be the closest thing to god. From the physical plane we can not hope to understand the Tao as it exsists as enegry. The Tao splits off parts of itself to create new life. In the process of re-learning how to inhabit a body, these fragments go through period of time learning through animals. Eventually when a species is found to have evolved enough to support sentience then a group of fragments ensoul that species. Here it was humans, whales and dolphins for thousands of years. Gorillas ensoulment has occured only within the last century or so.

 

So evolution plays a very central role in the teachings.

 

 

I have given only the barest overview of everything on the link above. Much of this only makes complete sense when considering many different facets of it. In fact, all the stuff in answer 4) is presented as my understanding of information provided. I personally have no reason to doubt it, in the context of the teaching. However, I can not provide outside support for it. Well I might find some but that would take far more time then I care to invest.

 

Anyway, If you have any questions let me know. I'll do my best to point to answer if I have one.

 

 

EDIT: proofreading.

 

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1. I believe I'm the only one I should believe in. Everything I thought came from gods was really just me. I can do anything I used to think gods did. So in that sense, I believe I am a god. Everyone has as much potential as they can believe. Other than that, I have no clue what else might be out there and don't care because it's all speculation.

 

 

 

2. I try to take is as literally as I can. The more literal I take it, the more I'll be able to do.

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Thanks for your replies. I'm not here to debate you, simply curious. Thanks for your answers, they have been most useful :)

 

Thanks Jaded :thanks:. I would be interested to know in what ways they have been useful.

 

I have only been in Buddhism for about three years. I am certainly learning everyday and don't claim to have any complete understanding. Tibetan Buddhism is very complex - I just don't have the time to present everything here that I have learned. Suffice to say, I am my own guru and my own teacher, even though I also listen to what the lama says.

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Thanks for your replies. I'm not here to debate you, simply curious. Thanks for your answers, they have been most useful :)

 

Thanks Jaded :thanks:. I would be interested to know in what ways they have been useful.

 

I have only been in Buddhism for about three years. I am certainly learning everyday and don't claim to have any complete understanding. Tibetan Buddhism is very complex - I just don't have the time to present everything here that I have learned. Suffice to say, I am my own guru and my own teacher, even though I also listen to what the lama says.

 

 

I'm someone who has a "all or nothing" approach. That's probably why both fundamentalism and atheism came naturally to me. Seeing others with positions that aren't black/white is a curious thing for me and not to mention informational :)

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