traveler68 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Honestly I am not sure if I am posting this in the right forum but since I am asking this question of Christians I figured most of them would see it here. I also needed to vent about a painful experience with xtians from a few years ago. Why is it that so called conservative Christians are so against welfare and assistance programs for the needy yet they do exactly jack shit themselves to actually help the poor? They claim that helping the poor is the job of the church yet the churches literally turn away from the poor. I live in a city with nearly 400,000 citizens and hundreds of churches. You would think at least one of the "houses of worship" could at least follow the rules of their own holy book and help the needy now wouldnt you? A few years ago my ex-wife and I needed assistance to help pay some bills such as electric and gas so we could get by without going on state srs assistance. We called 110+ local churches. NOT ONE was able to help us in any way shape or form. The really funny thing is that out of all the secretaries and pastors we with spoke with NOT ONE, I repeat, NOT ONE invited us to a service or even offered to pray for us. We finally found assistance through a local Red Cross program called project deserve that is set up for the needy through a local utility company. A secular service helped us. We avoided going on srs assistance through no help of the church. If you "conservative christians" really believed anything you preach you would help the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The history of welfare is really interesting, but without getting into details, I think what you came across was the idea that there are 'deserving poor and undeserving poor'. You, as a male, would have fallen into the undeserving group. Small children and widows (not usually women who have been 'deserted' as that is somehow their fault, and not of course women who left , regardless of any violence etc) are usually deserving. Everyone one else should be able to help them selves, and if you are helping them, then somehow you (the helper) is enforcing their inherent laziness which is how they got into poverty, trouble etc in the first place. Ok somewhat skipping over the theory, but that is its basis. This view goes back to the 'Poor' laws in England, and was endorsed by the church then. It pretty well followed the churches to America, as well as the other colonies like NZ and Australia. This is not an unusual attitude for churches at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 You should have called the Catholics. Here, the A of G is always putting their money into new buildings and billboards, but you don't see anything going to help the poor and alike. Watch the Catholics though. You see what they are doing- medical services, food kitchen, mental health (via a local community health center), rent assistance, clothing, etc etc. The Catholics have it going on in that respect. They are doing BIG business right now and I have no idea where they are getting the money to do all these things. Still don't trust the Sisters or Padre any farther than I can throw them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnieronpaper Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Small children and widows (not usually women who have been 'deserted' as that is somehow their fault, and not of course women who left , regardless of any violence etc) are usually deserving. I noticed you used "usually." Good choice. I was widowed 5 years ago and undeserving of help because I was childless and 30. Here in TX I was looked upon as someone who could get back to life easily, so I had no help at all. 2 weeks after my husband died I had to go back to work after finding a job and dropping out of full time school. I couldn't even get emotional assistance because I didn't have kids - the only thing in the area that was close to low cost was for people who had kids and it was to help the kids deal with the loss, not the adults. Oh, yeah I could've visited hospice groups if I wanted to be, by 20+ years, the youngest one there, but I had to deal with the loss alone as my mother was my only family and lived 1,800 miles away. My late husband's family abandoned me (as does tend to happen), so I was truly alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveler68 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 You should have called the Catholics. Here, the A of G is always putting their money into new buildings and billboards, but you don't see anything going to help the poor and alike. Watch the Catholics though. You see what they are doing- medical services, food kitchen, mental health (via a local community health center), rent assistance, clothing, etc etc. The Catholics have it going on in that respect. They are doing BIG business right now and I have no idea where they are getting the money to do all these things. Still don't trust the Sisters or Padre any farther than I can throw them though. We live in Wichita, Kansas. The "Catholic Charities" here has recently quit helping in that respect. They no longer offer help for rent or utilities but they are offering educational programs to help people avoid the pitfalls. They also offer food assistance but you have to be there on a Monday morning downtown at 8-10 am if you want any help at all. We had no car back then so it was out of the question. We called them but unless we could get 10 miles to where they were we were shit out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveler68 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Dont even get me into mental health or marriage counseling!!! The lowest price we found for that $40 an hour!!! You can get secular counseling for free or nearly free all over town but dont dare turn to a church. Its ALL about the money for these "profits" of god. Liars and thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Dont even get me into mental health or marriage counseling!!! The lowest price we found for that $40 an hour!!! You can get secular counseling for free or nearly free all over town but dont dare turn to a church. Its ALL about the money for these "profits" of god. Liars and thieves. That's the funny part, the community mental health center is suppose to be secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Small children and widows (not usually women who have been 'deserted' as that is somehow their fault, and not of course women who left , regardless of any violence etc) are usually deserving. I noticed you used "usually." Good choice. I was widowed 5 years ago and undeserving of help because I was childless and 30. Here in TX I was looked upon as someone who could get back to life easily, so I had no help at all. 2 weeks after my husband died I had to go back to work after finding a job and dropping out of full time school. I couldn't even get emotional assistance because I didn't have kids - the only thing in the area that was close to low cost was for people who had kids and it was to help the kids deal with the loss, not the adults. Oh, yeah I could've visited hospice groups if I wanted to be, by 20+ years, the youngest one there, but I had to deal with the loss alone as my mother was my only family and lived 1,800 miles away. My late husband's family abandoned me (as does tend to happen), so I was truly alone. I'm so sorry for you - that must have been very very hard. Yes I was going to say widows without children aren't 'deserving either' by this model. Traditionally churches were the ones that gave out 'charity'( a term I hate actually) which is therefore very subjective and ad hoc. it all depends on who is in charge and how they want to act in a given situation. One reason both NZ and Aussie have a excellent system of state assistance. Which one may not agree with, but it grew out of the unfair and ad hoc approach that the churches used in their giving of 'alms'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRobinson Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Thats ALL I ever got when we needed a miracle. I would phone prayer lines and they would refer me to welfare. I never understood that as a believer I thought God would move mountains if two agreed in prayer. But they never believed it either which is why they told me to go to welfare. (i had 4 kids and the husband left) I was told by some that I should call churches as they have a fund set up but I never did. I just knew what that outcome would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveler68 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Thats ALL I ever got when we needed a miracle. I would phone prayer lines and they would refer me to welfare. I never understood that as a believer I thought God would move mountains if two agreed in prayer. But they never believed it either which is why they told me to go to welfare. (i had 4 kids and the husband left) I was told by some that I should call churches as they have a fund set up but I never did. I just knew what that outcome would be. Prayer is wishful thinking. I dont believe that most Christians truly believe in their hearts that prayers for the sick or poor really help or they wouldnt even need to refer anyone to welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Glad to see that my wife and I aren't the only non-believers in Wichita. I don't know about the catholic churches in this town... but when I lived in Hays KS a few years ago (smallish town out in the middle of nowhere), the local catholic churches there helped people out pretty regularly. In my experience it's the protestants- evangelicals in particular- who are rabidly anti-welfare AND do jack shit for helping the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm waiting for a True Believer of the True Faith to post, apologizing for all those mean ol' Christians that aren't really part of Christianity because if they were, they would be just like them and they LOVE everybody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My family was quite conservative Christian, and generally against welfare. We seen it abused and milked by many a person. We were rather poor by US standards but my parents generally refused any sort of government aid. They didn't want government handouts. I grew up with the attitude of personal responsibility and making it on your own. I think if more people had that ethic less people would become hooked on government "crack", expecting something for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I Love Dog Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It does seem to be that the less Christian a society is, the better the state welfare system! Why is this so? The U.K. & Australia are much less Christian than the USA, but both have excellent welfare systems. Free medical and hospital services, excellent unemployment and pension benefits and now Australia, under our atheist prime minister has a paid parental leave scheme. In Australia we do have many good charitable organisations rune by Christian Churches and I would have assumed that it was the same in that most Christian of nations, the good ole USA. The Salvation Army here runs many charitable services and lots of soup kitchens, etc. There are many Church-operated charity shops, where people can buy good, cheap clothing and bedding. Of course, The Church has always considered itself to be the Top Dog and the more that the common people have, the less they need religion. So, keep the commoners wanting and in need, The Church provides god. What more does someone need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalvinist Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 You should have called the Catholics. Here, the A of G is always putting their money into new buildings and billboards, but you don't see anything going to help the poor and alike. Watch the Catholics though. You see what they are doing- medical services, food kitchen, mental health (via a local community health center), rent assistance, clothing, etc etc. The Catholics have it going on in that respect. They are doing BIG business right now and I have no idea where they are getting the money to do all these things. Still don't trust the Sisters or Padre any farther than I can throw them though. Mormons are very good at helping also. The Bishop in my community just wrote out a five hundred dollar check to my uncle to pay his power bill, no questions asked. My brothers wife is a Mormon and they have helped his family greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalvinist Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Dont even get me into mental health or marriage counseling!!! The lowest price we found for that $40 an hour!!! You can get secular counseling for free or nearly free all over town but dont dare turn to a church. Its ALL about the money for these "profits" of god. Liars and thieves. That's the funny part, the community mental health center is suppose to be secular. I hear ya. My almost father in law beilieved that any type of state or government assistance was a sin and against God's will. Yet, he works for the Government. He absolutely rejected the state helping me and his daughter with having a child. Yet one of his son's got a girl pregnant in high school and out of wed lock. His son ended up marrying that girl and having there first child using state assistance. Talk about a hypocritical piece of shit huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Dont even get me into mental health or marriage counseling!!! The lowest price we found for that $40 an hour!!! You can get secular counseling for free or nearly free all over town but dont dare turn to a church. Its ALL about the money for these "profits" of god. Liars and thieves. That's the funny part, the community mental health center is suppose to be secular. I hear ya. My almost father in law beilieved that any type of state or government assistance was a sin and against God's will. Yet, he works for the Government. He absolutely rejected the state helping me and his daughter with having a child. Yet one of his son's got a girl pregnant in high school and out of wed lock. His son ended up marrying that girl and having there first child using state assistance. Talk about a hypocritical piece of shit huh. Very. It was like he didn't care about that girl because she wasn't his daughter. That's really horrible thinking, besides hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts