piper Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I consider myself agnostic, with a deistic bent. For those who are strict athiest, do you deny any possibility of 'ghosts' or 'spirits' of any kind? I have heard so many stories of supernatural weird happenings, it seems a little foolish to categorically deny that they exist! Granted, they don't seem to point at any particular belief system, it just seems that SOMETHING is out there. I was meeting with a couple the other day concerning some remodel work on their 1800's era house and they were describing some noises they used to hear. The sounds have stopped now since they have renovated so much of the house, but they told me of hearing distinct footsteps upstairs and the sounds of kids playing. Even to the point of the visiting Grandma saying that she wishes those kids would just go to bed. I don't know WHAT it is, or the purpose of it, but if the supernatural does not exist, how do you account for some of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 6, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2011 Search for "hauntings debunked" or similar. Every case that has been looked into has been shown to have natural causes, as far as I know. When you consider resonant structures, proximity to energy fields, leaky/creaky buildings and psychological influences - who needs ghosts? I can't prove ghosts and other magic things don't exist, but I have never seen any evidence for same and any other explanation is always more plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I live in a 110 year old house. It makes weird noises according to the weather we are having. I do not believe in ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I consider myself agnostic, with a deistic bent. For those who are strict athiest, do you deny any possibility of 'ghosts' or 'spirits' of any kind? Until evidence of there existance is found then, yes. I have heard so many stories of supernatural weird happenings, it seems a little foolish to categorically deny that they exist! History and mythology are full of stories. Stories of gods, stories of dragons, stories of bigfoot, stories of monsters, stories of witches, stories of vampires, stories of demons, stories of leprichans, stories of wizards, stories of folk heroes, etc. Stories alone do not prove something exist. People are exceedingly good at making up stories from things they can not immediately explain. It is not foolish to say that these things don't exist if there is no evidence for them. The only thing stories prove is that people are very imaginative. Granted, they don't seem to point at any particular belief system, it just seems that SOMETHING is out there. That something is imaginations running wild. I was meeting with a couple the other day concerning some remodel work on their 1800's era house and they were describing some noises they used to hear. The sounds have stopped now since they have renovated so much of the house, but they told me of hearing distinct footsteps upstairs and the sounds of kids playing. Even to the point of the visiting Grandma saying that she wishes those kids would just go to bed. Sounds like they fixed all those sqeaky boards and air leaks. I don't know WHAT it is, or the purpose of it, but if the supernatural does not exist, how do you account for some of this? Imagination and paradolia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I have heard so many stories of supernatural weird happenings, it seems a little foolish to categorically deny that they exist! It's one thing to make a strong claim that they don't exist and quite another to just not believe the stories and other "evidence" commonly offered. Anecdotal evidence is not even accepted by a court of law, much less in science, which has even stricter evidentiary standards. But here we are in the age of the internet, camera telephones owned by virtually everyone around the entire planet, super-sophisticated media recording devices, and yet we still only have "I saw, or someone I know knows someone who saw, or just grainy, questionable photos, et al offered up as evidence. I'll go on record and say, I have zero belief in ghosts/spirits/what have you, that I'm willing to be proven wrong, and that I really don't expect to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 my good christian mum had a real close friend who died of cancer, and she made a pact to try to contact her from the other side. mum is obsessed with this topic and she had a long talk with my brother about how electricity could be interfered with by spirits. yes yes yes. And every time a light bulb blinks or winks on and off mum is convinced it is her dead friends trying to have a chat with her. And isn't the ghost of Ronald Reagan really, truly, and actually watching benevolently over modern America? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I thought all of you were "ghosts" or "spirits" from some alternate "realm." But the way you're all talking...it sounds like...I am! mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 But here we are in the age of the internet, camera telephones owned by virtually everyone around the entire planet, super-sophisticated media recording devices, and yet we still only have "I saw, or someone I know knows someone who saw, or just grainy, questionable photos, et al offered up as evidence. Exactly! The more we're able to record things the more we realize this is just a regular ole' non-supernatural world. The earth, humans and the universe is way more amazing than ghosts and goblins anyway. If people really talked to aliens we'd have the cure for disease and starvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPhoenix Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If people really talked to aliens we'd have the cure for disease and starvation. Everyone knows that aliens are only inerested in our asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have heard so many stories of supernatural weird happenings, it seems a little foolish to categorically deny that they exist! It's one thing to make a strong claim that they don't exist and quite another to just not believe the stories and other "evidence" commonly offered. Anecdotal evidence is not even accepted by a court of law, much less in science, which has even stricter evidentiary standards. But here we are in the age of the internet, camera telephones owned by virtually everyone around the entire planet, super-sophisticated media recording devices, and yet we still only have "I saw, or someone I know knows someone who saw, or just grainy, questionable photos, et al offered up as evidence. I'll go on record and say, I have zero belief in ghosts/spirits/what have you, that I'm willing to be proven wrong, and that I really don't expect to be. Of course, in the case of spirits and ghosts, some will say they don't show up on camera. Perfect handwaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viridia Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm still unsure about this. There are always going to be the stories people tell you that they, their friend, their friend's cousin, whoever saw/heard something. Mom told me a story about how her and her friends played with a ouija board once and the power went out and they all felt a little "haunted." IMO that was just a coincidence or something, and fear getting the best of them. The only thing keeping me from really being able to deny the existence of ghosts is the fact that I "saw" one. My dad has "seen" it multiple times. It's a true story that the woman who used to live in our house passed away in it. Dad says he's seen it three times. I saw it once. My sisters and my mom have seen things move (cups, glasses, plates, etc). This all used to point to the existence of a spiritual realm, but last year I took an AP Psychology class--and learned that the mind is an incredible thing and that most people don't give it enough credit for what it can do in certain situations or when registering various emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Could there be ghosts existing in a parallel universe, and that somehow they end up seen in this one? Its possible some unknown law permits it. But more likely, its all in our heads. The gods could also be beings from a parallel universe, but still more likely, they're our creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 1. Brain activity can cause spiritual experiences, it can be stimulated in a lab. 2. There is always the question of fourth dimensionality and the multiverse.... maybe we don't know everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakai Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is just a generalization but it seems most ghost stories I have heard about have some origin in the 1800s. What the fuck was going on in the 1800s? Either something really strange was happening at that time or the houses from that time are so old and creepy and noisy that it plays with people's heads. I have seen those ghost stories on Discovery channel during Halloween. It seems the one connection a lot of the victims have is that they are Christians. A lot of those stories have a Christian twist. Usually they get the demon or ghost out of the house by reading scripture or some other bullshit. I think because they are Christian they already have a victim mentality and their minds are already geared towards thinking that there are spirits floating around. But who knows. I won't ever arrogant enough to say there isn't a spiritual realm but I need proof like most. I agree with early comments. It seems even with our great technology all we are left with is hearsay and fuzzy photos and audio that could be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't know whats with so many being from the 1800's, but its probably a book or something that was written that popularized the type of ghost thats commonly reported now. Before, ghosts were just the ancestors that returned to punish the living or look after them, depending on the curcumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well this is something I have been wondering just recently. And really I don't know. I actually watch Lisa Williams on tv, she is a clairvoyant if some of you don't know who I mean....yeah I know, please don't laugh. but It is pretty remarkable how Lisa comes up with some of the info she does. There is a statement at the beginning of the show to say that Lisa has never met the people she meets up with and has no prior knowledge of them. I know that James Randi debunks these types of things, psychics and clairvoyants etc..but sometimes I am not sure if they are all fakes. Lisa is pretty impressive and I think how the hell does she knows these things about the deceased person without any hint or clue from the living person. she gets very specific too. I don't fully believe and I am mostly skeptical but part of me is open to the possibility that there is something beyond the world we live in right now. Maybe it's more of a hoping there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 13, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2011 ...she is a clairvoyant... I guess she'll be collecting the million dollars any day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 ...she is a clairvoyant... I guess she'll be collecting the million dollars any day now. Sounds like there's more money in not collecting. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I suppose I need to correct myself and say "she CLAIMS to be a clairvoyant" As for money, she pretty much lives off of her 'gift' she has own tv show, written books, travels and does venues. Probably doesn't need the million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 This is just a generalization but it seems most ghost stories I have heard about have some origin in the 1800s. What the fuck was going on in the 1800s? Either something really strange was happening at that time or the houses from that time are so old and creepy and noisy that it plays with people's heads. I have seen those ghost stories on Discovery channel during Halloween. It seems the one connection a lot of the victims have is that they are Christians. A lot of those stories have a Christian twist. Usually they get the demon or ghost out of the house by reading scripture or some other bullshit. I think because they are Christian they already have a victim mentality and their minds are already geared towards thinking that there are spirits floating around. But who knows. I won't ever arrogant enough to say there isn't a spiritual realm but I need proof like most. I agree with early comments. It seems even with our great technology all we are left with is hearsay and fuzzy photos and audio that could be anything. The spiritualism movement was taking foot then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Really, what's the difference? Disbelief in spirits/ghosts = Disbelief in God. God believers will look at something they can't explain rationally and say "Goddidit!". Ghost believers will look at something they can't explain rationally and say "Ghostdidit!" I have been around long enough now to see that most things I once attributed to God have other logical explanations. Why would I not apply the same reasoning when it comes to apparent hauntings or so-called supernatural activities? There is always a logical, rational explanation. We just haven't figured it out yet, just as the bible writers had not figured out a lot of stuff. Don't wallow in ignorant and primitive thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have heard so many stories of supernatural weird happenings, it seems a little foolish to categorically deny that they exist! Granted, they don't seem to point at any particular belief system, it just seems that SOMETHING is out there. People say the same thing when it comes to miracles. Funny that none of these things can ever be verified. I was meeting with a couple the other day concerning some remodel work on their 1800's era house and they were describing some noises they used to hear. The sounds have stopped now since they have renovated so much of the house, That should be enough evidence to confirm they weren't ghosts or spirits. Simple renovations removed most of the noises. HELLOOOOOO. So you're suggesting the majority of the ghosts found the renovations not to their tastes, so decided to move out? Yeah right. lol. Maybe something else needs renovating to get rid of the apparent footstep sounds. I don't know WHAT it is, or the purpose of it, but if the supernatural does not exist, how do you account for some of this? Try applying the same critical thinking to the topic of ghosts/spirits as you do to bible teachings. Actually I must add. When I deconverted, I too started out considering myself more deist, because I had similar views on some things as you, ie. I couldn't believe there was no God. There had to be one of some kind. But as I asked more questions, I started to realise that there was just no real reason to believe in any kind of God. So I realised I was agnostic. A deist God just didn't add up and there were rational explanations for all the apparent supernatural, I just had to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 There's quite enough about this universe we don't understand, like gravity and why spirits are so media shy, to start worrying about another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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