Mister Pappy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I have lived just long enough to have heard some flabbergasting attempts by the King's Horsemen (Christians) at putting their very own Humpty Dumpty (God) back together again - this ever since he fell off the wall of science from Copernicus, possibly earlier, onward. I am always amused, occasionally depressed, at the unintelligible attempts that come via otherwise intelligent people engaged in this futile endeavor. If you guys follow the news closely, you may have already heard of Bill O'Reilly's stupidity made public on Tuesday. For those who have not, take a moment and read the short article from Newser below. Apparently, Bill O’Reilly has never heard of the moon. In a debate Tuesday with Dave Silverman, head of the American Atheist group behind this, the Fox host tried to prove the existence of God by citing the unknowable mysteries of the tides. “I’ll tell you why [religion is] not a scam, in my opinion,” he told Silverman. “Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can’t explain that. You can’t explain why the tide goes in.” Silverman looked stunned. “Tide goes in, tide goes out?” he stuttered. O’Reilly pressed on. “The water, the tide—it comes in and it goes out. It always goes in, then it goes out. … You can’t explain that. You can’t explain it.” Of course, Raw Story points out, people who passed high school science might tell you that tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth. But Silverman had a better response: “Maybe it’s Thor up on Mount Olympus who’s making the tides go in and out." Sure this is a funny story, but do things like this ever strike any of you as flat out sad - sad for our species that we are stuck here - sad that our children are forced to rub shoulders with the children of such imbeciles as this at school in the year 2011? It is difficult for me to reconcile some things regarding religion, and at the top of the list is this one; that someone like Bill O'Reilly - college educated and reasonable sound of mind - can literally believe the things he says. These unthinkable inconsistencies with reason don't stop with Bill O'Reilly. Chances are about 60% that the doctor who opens your chest cavity to replace your petered out heart may believe that the tides can't be explained. The judge who rules over your court case is likely to think the earth came to be in the span of 6 days of 24 hours each. Even your president may - often does - believe that God speaks to him and tells him which countries to attack with the might of our military. The list goes on. Thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, at least O'Reilly was right about one thing. The tide goes out and the tide comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, at least O'Reilly was right about one thing. The tide goes out and the tide comes in. Well, by God, he does at least know that much ... you are right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I Love Dog Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thoughts anyone? and I thought Stone Age thinking was long gone! Perhaps O'Reilly believes that god swaps the moon for the sun in the morning then swaps them back again at night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I suspect he may have meant that even though we know the scientific explanation, we still cannot really explain what keeps it keeping on. I still don't see why people think science disproves god, or that people cannot believe whatever they want, science aside. Why is it always about one against the other? The existence of god or otherwise is not proveable. Why can't we just leave it at that instead of knocking ourselves out trying to prove any different? Seems futile really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Bill O'Reilly is an interesting character...He'll say something somewhat intelligible and I'll say to myself, "you know, Bill isn't all that bad." and then he'll say something retarded such as above, and make me question his mental acuteness. I don't know if he was specifically saying that God himself causes the tides or if he didn't explain himself well enough...Taken at face value I see it as him saying God does literally control the tides, though he may have been trying to say something else who knows... In the larger of scheme of things, yes, it is rather frightening a majority of people ascribe to beliefs or ideas that have been so thoroughly debunked that the term "belief rape" isn't that far off. I really love this quote by Adam Savage and I think it fits the discussion... "What I do see as a huge issue is a very anti-science vibe. Like I said, the newspapers talking about evolution versus creationism is very much an attack on science as a type of religion—believing that the scientific method is some type of religious belief. And it’s not! That kind of attack absolutely is damaging science exploration across the whole country. I do think that’s a significant problem. And until we can get our head out of the sand and realize that science isn’t about truth—it’s why this debate about the “theory of evolution” bugs the hell out of me. What scientists mean by theory is very different than what people think. People want science to give them these ultimate truths. When of course it’s never going to do that. No scientist will ever even tell you that he’ll guarantee the sun will come up tomorrow because that’s not a scientific statement. He can say it’ll come up because the evidence supports it and he can say he’s 99.99999% sure that it’s going to come up, but something could always happen. And that willingness to have your mind changed – which is basically what that is – that willingness to change, to see something different based on the evidence, that’s deeply scientific, and it’s deeply creative, and I don’t think enough people realize how creative science is as a field." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 People want science to give them these ultimate truths. When of course it’s never going to do that. No, it isn't and neither is religion. People need to work out the truth of their life, by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I suspect he may have meant that even though we know the scientific explanation, we still cannot really explain what keeps it keeping on. Certainly we can explain what keeps it going. The explanation is referred to as gravity, which is the key factor responsible for the continuity of orbits, even elliptical ones. The "push and pull" of said gravitational forces are mirrored by the "in and out" of our oceanic tides. How can you speculate that there is no explanation for the repetitive nature of these forces? I still don't see why people think science disproves god, or that people cannot believe whatever they want, science aside. I can respect where you are coming from with this statement and agree in part with it. However the statement hinges tediously upon how one defines the term "God". Science does, in fact, disprove certain "Gods" and the supposed nature of their existence. For example, the God of the Bible could not have created the heavens and the earth as described and taken literally by most Christians. Why is it always about one against the other? It has always been "one idea against another". Without this clash of ideas, there would be zero advance in knowledge or society at large. We would still be treating women as underclass citizens who have no purpose other than bearing children. We would still be stoning people to death for adultery. We would still be sacrificing animals to God, because he enjoys the aroma, and etc... Ideas must clash and the winner in that clash will always, hopefully, be truth proven out by scientific method. If not, we are in a heap of trouble. The existence of god or otherwise is not proveable. No it isn't, so we should treat it as all other "unprovable" tales from years gone by. Why is it still so much a part of our system, our government, our society at large? Why can't we just leave it at that instead of knocking ourselves out trying to prove any different? Seems futile really. What would be the point of "leaving it at that"? No one that I know is knocking themselves out to prove or disprove God. Science is taking care of it nicely in its steady pursuit of knowledge. Those knocking themselves out are those who continue to hold on to ideas which have already been proven untrue. We stand here in the midst of that, simply saying "WTF". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 People want science to give them these ultimate truths. When of course it’s never going to do that. No, it isn't and neither is religion. People need to work out the truth of their life, by themselves. And if those people, to whom you refer, also kept it to themselves rather than attempting to perpetuate their notions upon our children and culture, there would be no problem with letting it alone. This, of course, is not the case. It seems that once these individuals have "worked it out", they become intent upon the rest of the population "working it out" just as they have. This adds a new dimension to the question of "why not just let it be". This becomes even more clear when one considers the fact that much of the United States foreign policy over the last 60 plus years has been based upon the fact that we believe the Jews are God's chosen people - that they have a God given right to inhabit the land they now possess in spite of those who were uprooted from their homes so that Israel might be formed as a state. It becomes clear when one considers the fact that the acts of terror perpetrated by fundamental Islamic retards comes at the behest of their God and his dictates. How can it be more clear that we should not simply "let it be" when Israel makes war on the same Arabs expelled from their homes and made refuges based upon the assumption that God has promised them the land belonging to someone else? What about the Christian doctor killers who believe that abortion is against the law of God and bomb clinics or kill the physician who performs the abortion procedure? They "worked it out for themselves" right? Do you really believe it should simply be overlooked as "each to his own"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, at least O'Reilly was right about one thing. The tide goes out and the tide comes in. Well, by God, he does at least know that much ... you are right! Well of course we can't know why the tide goes out and the tide comes in, or whether it has anything to do with the moon, for that matter. Gravity is only a THEORY, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Pappy, Im not a great fan of the human race. I understand the victories of science, but they do not mitigate the cruelty of human nature in my mind. For me, I don't care how smart we think we are, while children still starve daily in a world that could feed them if it wanted to, I remain unimpressed by any of our so called progress. I am a very humanities based person and I always have been. I am sure that all the scientific discoveries will be benefit the wider world in time (if we don't all kill each other first, and if we live in a first world country) but it won't help that five year old who just died shitting out his insides in a desert somewhere. Until we can address that, i'm pretty meh about how smart we think we are. We live in a world where greed and self interest usually win out, and here in western society we think that is quite natural and okay. Christians might be deluded, but so are the rest of us when it comes to what we really worship but are loath to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 http://www.colbertna...-degrasse-tyson Couldn't get it to embed properly, but here's a clip of Colbert discussing Bill O'Reilly's debate mentioned earlier. Neil deGrasse Tyson makes an appearance as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickWitch Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 To be fair, the intelligence levels in general seem to be low all around, regardless of religion. Christianity just often serves as a convenient method through which people showcase their ignorance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 To be fair, the intelligence levels in general seem to be low all around, regardless of religion. Christianity just often serves as a convenient method through which people showcase their ignorance. Well put stick ... I like that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Pappy, Im not a great fan of the human race. I understand the victories of science, but they do not mitigate the cruelty of human nature in my mind. For me, I don't care how smart we think we are, while children still starve daily in a world that could feed them if it wanted to, I remain unimpressed by any of our so called progress. I am a very humanities based person and I always have been. I am sure that all the scientific discoveries will be benefit the wider world in time (if we don't all kill each other first, and if we live in a first world country) but it won't help that five year old who just died shitting out his insides in a desert somewhere. Until we can address that, i'm pretty meh about how smart we think we are. We live in a world where greed and self interest usually win out, and here in western society we think that is quite natural and okay. Christians might be deluded, but so are the rest of us when it comes to what we really worship but are loath to admit. You have a point for which I have no answer. I do not know what fixes world hunger. I know that greed is what causes it, but can greed be fixed? Maybe someday we will live in a better world. For now, its all we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 hunger, sickness and poverty,,,,, i remember US farmers burning wheat to prevent the price from dropping to low,,,, pharmaceuticals companies are destroying their soon to expired vitamins and pills,,,, money spend on billion military defence who could have irrigate and change the quality of land for better use,,,, can we cut poverty, hunger and sickness down? Yes we can but will we? As for me, I do my small part helping the poor when i can,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I watched that little scene on YouTube, and I must say that I was also a little disappointed in Silverman. After he said that all religions are scams (which I agree with), he made the ridiculous assertion that everyone knows that all religions are scams. No, Dave, that simply is not true; there are plenty of people who really believe that their religion is true, and all you're doing by making such erroneous assertions is reinforcing their belief that atheists don't know what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I watched that little scene on YouTube, and I must say that I was also a little disappointed in Silverman. After he said that all religions are scams (which I agree with), he made the ridiculous assertion that everyone knows that all religions are scams. No, Dave, that simply is not true; there are plenty of people who really believe that their religion is true, and all you're doing by making such erroneous assertions is reinforcing their belief that atheists don't know what they're talking about. agreed. It wasn't how I want to be represented. But then, no matter what label I bear, I never like how other people represent me. This is what I try to remember when I see some one outside of my own experience acting like an idiot. They are representative only of themselves. O'Riely is a douche....I watched the interview. It is hard to think when you are being shouted at by a buffoon (I would venture to guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yeah the interview in general was a dissappointment. Not like the one on fox with Dan Barker. That was great. But the thing O'Reilly said about the tides just makes me want to go "MAGNETS!!! HOW DO THEY WORK???" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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