jasonwhatever Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Just as heterosexual people are hetero because they are genetically programmed to be, gays are also. Even though it is estimated that fewer than 5% of people are gay, among idential twins raised in seperate environments, 55% turn out to be gay. It is believed the reason why the prevalence is not 100% is due to the fact that, though every person gets two alleles for each gene, certain alleles, like that which causes homosexuality, express at certain rates. For example, there is a genetic link for schizophrenia, and they found that when one identical twin has schizo, about 48% of the time the other twin will also. This is much higher occurence than the general population. MS, Diabetes and other conditions also occur at must higher rates in twins when one twin has it. Various things can cause the homosexual gene to be expressed while sometimes for the other twin, the hetero gene may be expressed. Overall, it is thought that the gay gene has about a 67% penetration factor. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus3.htm But, don't you know that homosexuality is an abomination to God? I guess to please the Christian god, homosexuals are supposed to deny the way he made them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonwhatever Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 I meant to say that among homosexual twins raised in seperate environments, when one is gay, about 55% of the time the other is also gay. This is WAY over the expected 5% population average. See above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2011 We knew my boy was gay when he was 5 years old! Mothers intuition. You would not believe in your life, what my dear, sweet, wonderful, kind hearted boy went thru in school and his growing up years!! I cannot go to bed with those memories on my mind. I am still scared for him today! And I can't even 'pray' for protection for him. He is 21, alcoholic, now weighs 250 pounds and suffers from high blood pressure and depression. I HATE what the world did to this kind, gentle,beautiful human!!!!!!!!!!!! He is 'my boy' and I adore him. I am teaching him to take his life back and walk with his head high. I am trying very hard to encourage him and I am hoping that he is on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 There may also be some contribution fom the maternal hormones during pregnancy. There is a very interesting book called "What you can change and what you can't" written by Martin Seligman in about 1997. He deals with a lot of nature / nurture issues in this book. It is extremely well researched. Looks at depression, obesity alcoholism as well as being gay and transgender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I can't find the study I read about, but it indicated that male homosexuality appeared to be more genetic and female homosexuality appeared to be more a result of hormones in the womb but there are a variety of factors that can influence sexuality and its different for each person. Most of what makes up our sexuality we are born with. I think bisexuality is something they should research a bit too. It seems like most the reason 'ex-gay' ever happens is a person is actually a bisexual. I think people are too quick to draw the line between gay and straight without considering the scope between them. I'm bisexual but I am married to a man. That doesn't mean I am now straight, yet most people look at it like it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I can't find the study I read about, but it indicated that male homosexuality appeared to be more genetic and female homosexuality appeared to be more a result of hormones in the womb but there are a variety of factors that can influence sexuality and its different for each person. Most of what makes up our sexuality we are born with. I think bisexuality is something they should research a bit too. It seems like most the reason 'ex-gay' ever happens is a person is actually a bisexual. I've been wondering if this is one of those things effected by epigenetics. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I have an uncle who was raised very fundamentalist Christian. He knew that something was different about himself by the time he was 7. He went through hell emotionally, and fortunately, his suicide attempts were unsuccessful. Most Christians I know don't beat people over the head with the Leviticus passages because you only have to look up and down the verses a bit to find something they are engaging in that is also an abomination, such as wearing two different types of material. Romans 1 is the scripture of choice. Since fundamentalists aren't concerned with facts, no amount of actual scientific evidence will matter. Having said all that, I enjoyed the article. Another theory has to do with the boy's inability to bond with his father, which could occur for a variety of reasons, none of which are the boy's (or mother's) fault. Whatever the "reason", this group of the population is one that it's very easy for us to treat them better than the Christians do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2011 I just wanted to add a little more to this post because I 'live' with this 'genetic,' gene gone wrong' and I've watched the devastation caused by people not understanding homosexuality. Please read this and thank you for letting me get my feelings out. If people would only read about this affliction! But they won't. I asked my pastor to read a book . It was written by a 'Christian' doctor who explained the whole genetics. When I joined his Church - I told him the truth that my boy was gay. He promised me that in his Church, there would be NO mention of homosexuality, because his Church promoted 'grace'. He also told me that all I had to do was to get my boy on his knees and ask the lord Jesus Christ 'to come into his heart' - and then sit back and watch what the lord would do!10 years later - nothing has changed. My boy is still a homosexual. One morning - I almost had my boy convinced to go to Church with me, but he was scared that they would make fun of him. I promised him that our pastor told me that homosexuality was no worse 'sin', than anger or lust of the eye, wine, wild parties, etc............ and that god still loved him. At the last minute - he changed his mind and did not go. thank god!! This is a true story - I have no reason to exaggerate this. I went to Church that morning and sure enough - - - - the pastor threw in some comment on how god wanted man to be 'paired' with women. He made a huge joke about Adam and Eve -NOT ADAM AND STEVE. The whole Church broke out in hysterical laughter and I froze in my seat. I got up and left the church.Te whole congregation saw me crying when I abruptly walked out. They weren't there the days that my little boy came home from school beaten up. It got to the to the point that I had the schools bring in a 'professional' councilor and go to every class to talk about accepting all races of people,homosexuality, etc............ I wrote the pastor a 3 page letter explaining what my boy went thru in his life (including the next door neighbor that wouldn't let her son hang around my boy!)They were 10 yeas old at the time! But it was already quite obvious, because he had so many feminine traits. I did not go back to Church for 2 weeks. The pastor finally called me and we had a meeting. He apologized and told me it would never happen again. I explained to him how I almost had my boy talked in to going to Church that morning and how, once again - he would be the joke and ridicule of the Church - at his expense. I was so angry. I never asked him to go to Church again, because I wouldn't take the chance. I can't believe that I actually went back to that Church - but I did (like an abused wife stays with her husband) and I stayed another 2 years before I walked out the door for good. I say all this because know that many people who have been brainwashed in the Church on the subject of homosexuality, do have a hard time realizing that most of the time - it is genetic. We are now in the process of helping him with his eating and alcohol addictions and doing every thing in our power to build up his self esteem. This poor boy had it so hard. He lost his mom at 8 years old (I brought him up from that point) and then he was 'cursed' with being gay. I remember standing at my patio doors one summer night ,screaming uo to the heavens (with hatred in my heart) saying to the 'god' - ''Why the f can't you ever give me a 'normal' life? It's been hard. But were really working on the whole thing. I have him at this point of his life of being very proud of who he is. It's great to see him laughing. thank you for listening and letting me get this out today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Aw Margee I'm glad you shared all this. And I'm glad that you always stuck by your son. Its not always the case as members here can testify. My church was very hard on the 'gay agenda' and often spoke about the hellfire that awaited them. They talked about that for all kinds of things though, I knew as a little kid that pretty much everyone I knew and would ever know would go to hell. My mother-in-law has a gay brother and their church is quite accepting. They go to a liberal United Methodist Church and I'm pretty sure its for the socialization more than anything else. It sounds like you are doing everything you can and should be doing. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 8, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2011 Aw Margee I'm glad you shared all this. And I'm glad that you always stuck by your son. Its not always the case as members here can testify. My church was very hard on the 'gay agenda' and often spoke about the hellfire that awaited them. They talked about that for all kinds of things though, I knew as a little kid that pretty much everyone I knew and would ever know would go to hell. My mother-in-law has a gay brother and their church is quite accepting. They go to a liberal United Methodist Church and I'm pretty sure its for the socialization more than anything else. It sounds like you are doing everything you can and should be doing. Keep up the good work! Thank you my friend - This topic is so important to me. I would fight for anyone of a different culture, color or creed. So much hate in the world today caused by religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyChef Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My heart goes out to you and your son,I know exactly what he is going through.The greatest thing going for your son is YOU.Having accepting family is the most important step to overcoming the abuse of society. (((hugs))) Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 My best friend just told me how she was almost outed by a 90 year old at her work the other day. The woman was asking her why such a beautiful woman such as herself is not married with kids at the age of 40, and my friend just shrugged it off and said "well, if it happens it happens". Then the woman came back the next day and was embarrassed that she "didn't figure it out" and said, rather loudly, "you're gay, aren't you?" To which my friend kind of shh'd her. Now, my friend is not what one would call a "butch", so it is not obvious to people unfamiliar with gay people, but I was kinda dismayed at the realization that my best friend can not be her complete self in every situation in her life. I work in theatre so I'm used to being surrounded by gay people, and I've been friends with her for over 5 years now, and it actually slipped my mind that she has to be careful who she reveals her sexuality to. It's a shame that people don't realize that they didn't choose to be straight, so why do they think gay people choose to be gay? It boggles my mind, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Margee, have you ever read the book, The Meaning of Matthew by Judy Shepard? It's Judy Shepard's memoir about how her son Matthew was murdered for being gay and their lives before and after the event and I think you might find the book interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonwhatever Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 I love all of you as fellow humans, I hope you guys won't be mad at me for saying this, but I must confess that I've been trying to convince myself that Jesus is not really the Son of God. The spiritual evidence, however, is just overwhelming. I have no doubt that He is the Christ, The Son of The Living God. I say this to you all because you still have hope. I'm not trying to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I love all of you as fellow humans, I hope you guys won't be mad at me for saying this, but I must confess that I've been trying to convince myself that Jesus is not really the Son of God. The spiritual evidence, however, is just overwhelming. I have no doubt that He is the Christ, The Son of The Living God. I say this to you all because you still have hope. I'm not trying to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Just as heterosexual people are hetero because they are genetically programmed to be, gays are also. Even though it is estimated that fewer than 5% of people are gay, among idential twins raised in seperate environments, 55% turn out to be gay. It is believed the reason why the prevalence is not 100% is due to the fact that, though every person gets two alleles for each gene, certain alleles, like that which causes homosexuality, express at certain rates. For example, there is a genetic link for schizophrenia, and they found that when one identical twin has schizo, about 48% of the time the other twin will also. This is much higher occurence than the general population. MS, Diabetes and other conditions also occur at must higher rates in twins when one twin has it. Various things can cause the homosexual gene to be expressed while sometimes for the other twin, the hetero gene may be expressed. Overall, it is thought that the gay gene has about a 67% penetration factor. http://www.religious...g/hom_caus3.htm But, don't you know that homosexuality is an abomination to God? I guess to please the Christian god, homosexuals are supposed to deny the way he made them. Thank you for sharing this. I just put it on Facebook- for all of my Christian friends to read. I said to them: " I submit that we must be willing to examine new evidences and allow them to lead us in the direction of new conclusions. There is more research out there than this, but this is a good start." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 My best friend just told me how she was almost outed by a 90 year old at her work the other day. The woman was asking her why such a beautiful woman such as herself is not married with kids at the age of 40, and my friend just shrugged it off and said "well, if it happens it happens". Then the woman came back the next day and was embarrassed that she "didn't figure it out" and said, rather loudly, "you're gay, aren't you?" To which my friend kind of shh'd her. Now, my friend is not what one would call a "butch", so it is not obvious to people unfamiliar with gay people, but I was kinda dismayed at the realization that my best friend can not be her complete self in every situation in her life. I work in theatre so I'm used to being surrounded by gay people, and I've been friends with her for over 5 years now, and it actually slipped my mind that she has to be careful who she reveals her sexuality to. It's a shame that people don't realize that they didn't choose to be straight, so why do they think gay people choose to be gay? It boggles my mind, really... You know...even if people CHOOSE to be gay. Once you realize the Bible for the tripe that it is.....WHO cares, right?! I have always loved my gay friends. It used to be difficult to align that with my beliefs. Much easier now. I think most of us have a little gay in us. Women in older age tend to "go gay"..there was an article about that on Psychology today. I am too lazy to find it right now. Anyway. I *heart* homosexuals.... Before I quit God, I was already fighting that fight with christian friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I love all of you as fellow humans, I hope you guys won't be mad at me for saying this, but I must confess that I've been trying to convince myself that Jesus is not really the Son of God. The spiritual evidence, however, is just overwhelming. I have no doubt that He is the Christ, The Son of The Living God. I say this to you all because you still have hope. I'm not trying to troll. I see by your wording that you are sincere, but we already know all about it. Hope that Jesus will save us from the hell his daddy made and sends the majority of his children too. We have free will. Take my gift or go to hell. *Zap*! You're gay! hahahaha! now STOP or you will go to Hell! Psshhh. WHATEVER. I feel your sincerity, but please- save it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 ...I think people are too quick to draw the line between gay and straight without considering the scope between them. I'm bisexual but I am married to a man. That doesn't mean I am now straight, yet most people look at it like it does. As I see it, it also depends on how you define being gay/straight/whatever. Morontheists seem to define it solely by what sexual acts are performed. By that definition, if/as long as you don't hop into bed with your own gender, you aren't gay. It also follows from that (wrong) assumption that if you stop having gay sex you are an ex-gay (until some day you cave in...). That it's really all about the emotions, the attraction and desire pulling you toward one gender or another (or sometimes both of them), is something they either don't want to get, or are unable to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I love all of you as fellow humans, I hope you guys won't be mad at me for saying this, but I must confess that I've been trying to convince myself that Jesus is not really the Son of God. The spiritual evidence, however, is just overwhelming. I have no doubt that He is the Christ, The Son of The Living God. I say this to you all because you still have hope. I'm not trying to troll. I see by your wording that you are sincere, but we already know all about it. Hope that Jesus will save us from the hell his daddy made and sends the majority of his children too. We have free will. Take my gift or go to hell. *Zap*! You're gay! hahahaha! now STOP or you will go to Hell! Psshhh. WHATEVER. I feel your sincerity, but please- save it. P.S. Spiritual Evidence? Like what? I never TRIED to convince myself that Jesus was a construct. The Bible showed me it's mighty flaws. Science showed me things that the preacher didn't want me to know and Jesus just fell. Whatever feelings you have that are spiritual can easily be shared by people who agree, but interpret them differently. (i.e. other religions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If people would only read about this affliction! But they won't. I asked my pastor to read a book . It was written by a 'Christian' doctor who explained the whole genetics. When I joined his Church - I told him the truth that my boy was gay. He promised me that in his Church, there would be NO mention of homosexuality, because his Church promoted 'grace'. (((((Margee))))) What a sick piece of shit you had to deal with! Sadly, it's so fucking typical... As for what I quoted above, well, to make people cling to their inhuman prejudice you need to keep them from any real-world contact with the target of those prejudices. It's the way it works, whether with homosexuals, "niggers" or whathaveyou. For a related example, openly expressed anti-arab/anti-muslim sentiments have gone up quite a bit over here in Germany during the recent years (partially, obviously, due to 911 and such)... but what's telling is that surveys show the highest growth rates of the hatred were in the eastern parts of the country, that is, the ex-GDR territory... where there are the least "arabs" living among the German population. Those who you don't see every day are easiest to hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litassio Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 That it's really all about the emotions, the attraction and desire pulling you toward one gender or another (or sometimes both of them), is something they either don't want to get, or are unable to get. Indeed, and even if they do get that, they don't seem to get that spiritual growth is all about the mind and has nothing to do with whether the person you feel sexual attraction to has a willie or has boobs [or indeed both, hah!]. Religious people are stuck with dogmatically followed rules and regulations that have little or no connection to spiritual growth and which have no [or no longer have any] rationality behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 9, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2011 I love all of you as fellow humans, I hope you guys won't be mad at me for saying this, but I must confess that I've been trying to convince myself that Jesus is not really the Son of God. The spiritual evidence, however, is just overwhelming. I have no doubt that He is the Christ, The Son of The Living God. I say this to you all because you still have hope. I'm not trying to troll. jasonwhatever - You confuse me? You started this post???? (unless there is another 'jasonwhatever' on this forum.) Why did you contradict yourself here? Or it just seems that way to me........................Maybe there's something I missed? Why did you post this in the middle of this discussion about homosexuality? Are you saying ( like the rest of the majority of christians), that these beautiful humans go to that place called hell? Have you changed your mind? I read the first of your post, and that's what it seems to me?? (but I could be wrong) Please just explain what you meant by your above statement? Please start a post and prove your point to us? You might call it -''The spiritual Evidence that Jesus is the Christ'', and explain to us - What 'hope' do we still have?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hey MArgee. That IS weird. I didn't notice the connection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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