Moderator Margee Posted January 15, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2011 I'm slowly comin' out guys! If any of you have been reading my posts, you will already know that I have one very important person in my life that I love and adore. She is a woman whom I have known for a very long time. We love each other so much. We share so many things in common and have many laughs when I do her hair. I have NEVER wanted to lose her as a friend or client. BUT..................... She is my old pastor's wife! I got 'saved' at her church when I was 20 years old. That's how long we have been friends.They have a huge fancy church that they started many years ago that fits about 1,500 people. She has been all over the world with her husband in 'ministry'. I must say that she drives a very nice, small car and her home is lovely, but not too elaborate. I have led her to believe all these years that I am still a 'full fledged' Christian. She knows that I don't attend church anymore, but she seems to be o.k. that I am involved in another 'ministry' outside of the church. I know she believes that I am still 'witnessing' for Jesus. I feel like a fraud with her and I want so very much for her to know who I really am. I did her hair yesterday and I was afraid to tell her about my friend who is very sick in the hospital because if she said - 'It's the lord's will' or anything to that fact - I was afraid I would lose it! However, we did get into quite the talk, and she now knows that I have questioned god on and off for 30 years. She didn't react. She was very calm. I want to see if I can show you a little how the conversation went. I'll call her,'Sue'. Sue: Margee, you must just have faith in god with all of this. (about my friend) Me: Sue - you know - I have been thinking - you haven't lost one person in your life up to this point. You still have your mom and dad, children, grandchildren, etc...you haven't experienced the pain that goes with losing someone really close to you! Sue: Margee - I know that I have been very blessed. Me: Blessed? Sue - are you allowed to use the word 'lucky' because if you can't - that means that you are the blessed one by the lord, and I'm not. I have lost my sister, mom, dad, Blah. blah............ (all my bad luck stories) Sue: no, that's not how god works margee. I guess I am luc..kkk...yy. (she had a hard time using this word) Me: Sue -honestly, haven't you questioned this whole bible? I mean what about ???????????? - -------- and I went on with ALL kinds of stuff That we discuss on this forum. It really 'blew' her mind. I really let it out. And she let me. But I did it softly and gently. Sue: Of course I have questioned where god is in all the pain and suffering today - but we do have an answer to this. God is coming back to restore the earth and capture Satan and the demons... ME: I continued to ask her; 'Why didn't god just do it right the first time'? Sue: I can't understand The ways of the lord. I could see that she was getting really uncomfortable, so I backed off. Then when she was about to leave - she knew I was going to go down to the hospital to just sit with my very sick girlfriend and she said............ Sue: Margee, does she 'know' the lord? (I knew this was coming!) It's sooooo important that you get her to confess 'the lord' as her savior. (I was very worked up inside at this point) Me:... OR she will go to hell and burn forever and ever, Right? Isn't it funny, Sue, how murderers and child rapists can get away with all these terrible acts and go to jail and 'confess' and they get to go to heaven - but my darling girlfriend who has been kind to everyone in her life - will burn in eternal torture? She didn't say a word. I knew she was stumped ans I also know that deep down inside -she knows that I make more sense. But I didn't push it any further. We prayed for my friend anyway. The thing I most wanted to tell you today is that she now knows (to a certain degree) that I am questioning the whole thing. I must say, that I do feel some relief. It will be interesting - her next visit to me.................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_Cookie Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Good luck to you!! Sounds like you handled that very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizened Sage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Margee, If she gives you this bit again: "I can't understand the ways of the lord." You might respond along these lines: The faithful tell us that we can’t know the mind of god, that our puny minds can’t hope to understand him. Yet, this god supposedly wants us to believe in and worship him. So this ultra intelligence can’t make himself understood by us? How could anyone expect to sell me a philosophy if he can’t speak my language and make a sales pitch that I can understand? If there were really a god, shouldn’t it be obvious to all of us, and wouldn’t he be perfectly clear about what is expected of us? Instead, we have a world of hundreds of religions and thousands of sects, and we argue and fight about who’s right. How can it make sense to infer from this that a real god is in charge? You see, they use this non-understandability as an excuse, when it is really a crucial piece of evidence, because they are deathly afraid of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 15, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2011 Margee, If she gives you this bit again: "I can't understand the ways of the lord." You might respond along these lines: The faithful tell us that we can’t know the mind of god, that our puny minds can’t hope to understand him. Yet, this god supposedly wants us to believe in and worship him. So this ultra intelligence can’t make himself understood by us? How could anyone expect to sell me a philosophy if he can’t speak my language and make a sales pitch that I can understand? If there were really a god, shouldn’t it be obvious to all of us, and wouldn’t he be perfectly clear about what is expected of us? Instead, we have a world of hundreds of religions and thousands of sects, and we argue and fight about who’s right. How can it make sense to infer from this that a real god is in charge? You see, they use this non-understandability as an excuse, when it is really a crucial piece of evidence, because they are deathly afraid of doubt. I'm going to try and memorize this Sage! Thanks! Makes sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Margee, it sounds like the conversation went very well. Just bear in mind that, if she is a true believer, whatever you say to her will likely bounce right off. She will view you as someone who is lost and in need of the lord and who is being taken captive by Satan and his minions. She will go home and probably tell her pastor husband and they will pray for you to once again see the "truth." Of course, I mean see the "truth" as they believe it is and not the reality that you are now seeing. This is not to suggest that you should not tell her all that you desire to tell her. If that is what you need, then by all means speak to her openly and frankly. Just do it for you and not for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 16, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2011 Margee, it sounds like the conversation went very well. Just bear in mind that, if she is a true believer, whatever you say to her will likely bounce right off. She will view you as someone who is lost and in need of the lord and who is being taken captive by Satan and his minions. She will go home and probably tell her pastor husband and they will pray for you to once again see the "truth." Of course, I mean see the "truth" as they believe it is and not the reality that you are now seeing. This is not to suggest that you should not tell her all that you desire to tell her. If that is what you need, then by all means speak to her openly and frankly. Just do it for you and not for her. Good advice Overcame! Thank you friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You handled that very well, I think and gave her some things to think about too. No doubt she'll talk to other Christians and come back with some half-assed justifications and excuses. I'm invisaging similar conversations with my parents some time soon who still aren't aware that I no longer believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 hopefully she go and tell her husband and the congregation about a stray sheep, and every lady in the church will queue up in your salon and waiting to re-convert you while you do their hair. cheers and have a great 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolish girl Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 When you said that thing about your girlfrined having to go to hell, I wouldn't mistake her silence for an epiphany or shock. I had conversations like this w/ people when I was a n Xer. My silence would have been "I'm sorry, I don't make the rules"...but it is too ugly to say. Congratulations Margee, you have metaphorical ballz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loi Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm slowly comin' out guys! If any of you have been reading my posts, you will already know that I have one very important person in my life that I love and adore. She is a woman whom I have known for a very long time. We love each other so much. We share so many things in common and have many laughs when I do her hair. I have NEVER wanted to lose her as a friend or client. BUT..................... She is my old pastor's wife! I got 'saved' at her church when I was 20 years old. That's how long we have been friends.They have a huge fancy church that they started many years ago that fits about 1,500 people. She has been all over the world with her husband in 'ministry'. I must say that she drives a very nice, small car and her home is lovely, but not too elaborate. I have led her to believe all these years that I am still a 'full fledged' Christian. She knows that I don't attend church anymore, but she seems to be o.k. that I am involved in another 'ministry' outside of the church. I know she believes that I am still 'witnessing' for Jesus. I feel like a fraud with her and I want so very much for her to know who I really am. I did her hair yesterday and I was afraid to tell her about my friend who is very sick in the hospital because if she said - 'It's the lord's will' or anything to that fact - I was afraid I would lose it! However, we did get into quite the talk, and she now knows that I have questioned god on and off for 30 years. She didn't react. She was very calm. I want to see if I can show you a little how the conversation went. I'll call her,'Sue'. Sue: Margee, you must just have faith in god with all of this. (about my friend) Me: Sue - you know - I have been thinking - you haven't lost one person in your life up to this point. You still have your mom and dad, children, grandchildren, etc...you haven't experienced the pain that goes with losing someone really close to you! Sue: Margee - I know that I have been very blessed. Me: Blessed? Sue - are you allowed to use the word 'lucky' because if you can't - that means that you are the blessed one by the lord, and I'm not. I have lost my sister, mom, dad, Blah. blah............ (all my bad luck stories) Sue: no, that's not how god works margee. I guess I am luc..kkk...yy. (she had a hard time using this word) Me: Sue -honestly, haven't you questioned this whole bible? I mean what about ???????????? - -------- and I went on with ALL kinds of stuff That we discuss on this forum. It really 'blew' her mind. I really let it out. And she let me. But I did it softly and gently. Sue: Of course I have questioned where god is in all the pain and suffering today - but we do have an answer to this. God is coming back to restore the earth and capture Satan and the demons... ME: I continued to ask her; 'Why didn't god just do it right the first time'? Sue: I can't understand The ways of the lord. I could see that she was getting really uncomfortable, so I backed off. Then when she was about to leave - she knew I was going to go down to the hospital to just sit with my very sick girlfriend and she said............ Sue: Margee, does she 'know' the lord? (I knew this was coming!) It's sooooo important that you get her to confess 'the lord' as her savior. (I was very worked up inside at this point) Me:... OR she will go to hell and burn forever and ever, Right? Isn't it funny, Sue, how murderers and child rapists can get away with all these terrible acts and go to jail and 'confess' and they get to go to heaven - but my darling girlfriend who has been kind to everyone in her life - will burn in eternal torture? She didn't say a word. I knew she was stumped ans I also know that deep down inside -she knows that I make more sense. But I didn't push it any further. We prayed for my friend anyway. The thing I most wanted to tell you today is that she now knows (to a certain degree) that I am questioning the whole thing. I must say, that I do feel some relief. It will be interesting - her next visit to me.................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loi Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Greetings , I want to encourage to press on with your leading or understanding of what you see. I believe the Answer lies within you. Do not want to burn a bridge or relations with your friend. Let Peace and Love be the Answer. Never lose connection with your friend, because you never know what may become of it. I , for example, am a ex christian Fundamentalist Baptist and Experience the ultra conservative theological background. Now I am free no longer bound to legalism and theological interpretation of the one book the Bible. I have many friends from all walks of life. I am also married to an Atheist. Life in itself will teach us many things. Many Blessings to you Namaste, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagbear Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Margee, your text seems so appealing to me. When I read: Sue: Margee - I know that I have been very blessed. Me: Blessed? Sue - are you allowed to use the word 'lucky' because if you can't - that means that you are the blessed one by the lord, and I'm not. I have lost my sister, mom, dad, Blah. blah............ (all my bad luck stories) Sue: no, that's not how god works margee. I guess I am luc..kkk...yy. (she had a hard time using this word) I saw a vivid old-style aristocrat Lady with a serial of characteristics of a little bit selfishness, self-conceit, and self-righteousness. You have a writing talent I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulyfree Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 You are quite brave! I'm guessing that you are beginning to 'come out' to her because you value the friendship. It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't really know who you are. I hope when she really grasps that you no longer believe that she will understand and your friendship will remain intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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