Vomit Comet Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I got saved at the age of 15. At first my dad went on the war path. He determined to see this church for himself, and as luck would have it, that very coming Sunday was Easter Sunday so when he went there, they were keeping the bat-shittiness reigned in and were in full P.R. mode, putting up their cutesy innocuous "family friendly" front. Had he gone on a normal Sunday he would have seen what they were really like! Three words: Assembly of God. My dad's family was burned by fundyism. My grandpa went crazy, both mentally and with religion, and the crooked preacher took advantage and milked him for all his money. My dad's family ended up on welfare and food stamps as a result, grandpa lost the dairy farm and ended up shoveling chicken shit for the rest of his life. His decline in fortune had to do with mental illness, but the church that roped him in made it far worse than it had to be, even by 1950s standards. This was why my dad was immediately suspicious and hostile. My dad was pretty young when all that shit was happening so he doesn't have a massive chip on his shoulder, and he's what you would call a "functional agnostic" or "nominal theist." On the other hand, to this day his older brother is a virulent atheist who despises fundyism. I kind of wish he would have put his foot down right away before I got fully roped in. Long story short, I became assimilated before long, and I learned pretty quick to stay quiet about all the Pentecostal kookiness because I knew he'd intervene. I'm not blaming him, because it was a tricky situation. But if he would have intervened, and providing that I wouldn't have rebelled against him, I would have been spared over a decade's worth of severe headfuckery. I told this story to a ladyfriend whose parents are Greek immigrants. She said "if that had been me, my mother would have sent me to live with our family in Greece to straighten me back out. Like, I would have been on the very next flight, even if it cost her $3,000. There's no fucking way she would have let that happen to me." And her heart was bursting with love and admiration for her mother as she was saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 I kind of wish he would have put his foot down right away before I got fully roped in. Long story short, I became assimilated before long, and I learned pretty quick to stay quiet about all the Pentecostal kookiness because I knew he'd intervene. I'm not blaming him, because it was a tricky situation. But if he would have intervened and providing that I wouldn't have rebelled against him, I would have been spared over a decade's worth of severe headfuckery. I will assume that you knew how to think for yourself when you were 15. If I am wrong, correct me. Thank you for making the statement above. It gives me new motivation to continue in due diligence with my children and to protect their right to a youth, free from the "headfuckery" of idiot churchaholics who, unfortunately, live in the world around us. Pappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I will assume that you knew how to think for yourself when you were 15. I was mentally ill and was almost put into a mental institution. That was pretty much the low point of my entire life thus far. I got off on a technicality and then I found myself at that youth group; had I gotten put away, the night I got slaved would have been about the two week mark of my institutionalization. (They wanted to put me away for 6 months.) The nut-house would have saved me from the insanity! Of course, in hindsight (let's say, one year later) me and everyone around me figured it was God's intervention so that I could wind up at that church and get saved, whereas Satan wanted me to be put away so that I'd miss out on it. I got saved the very first night I went, because I was pretty much at rock bottom. I was pretty ignorant about what I was getting into; for all I knew, Jesus was just some groovy hippie dude from back in the day, kinda like Buddha or some shit. I was born and raised in Los Angeles so it is possible to reach your teen years in naive ignorance of what that Jesus shit is really all about, as impossible as that may be for you Bible Belters to imagine. It took a couple of months for me to fully grasp not just what I had gotten myself into but the full implications. Full implications, as in, my parents and almost everyone else I knew were hellbound. I remember the day that realization hit and it was almost enough to make me walk, but I decided to stay. Boy, did I make the wrong choice! If someone I trusted and who knew what they were talking about would have explained to me the full, terrible, and unvarnished story before that night where I got slaved, I might have stayed away. But when you're a kid from a mostly godless household in a relatively godless land such as L.A., well... the local fundies are sometimes able to play on the "ignorance" of kids like me who, in addition to being naive to the madness, are desperate and lost enough to give something, anything a try. So in other words, as impaired and desperate as I was, I think I could have thought for myself if somebody would have stepped in and helped me to do that. Now, another thing that comes to mind. Back then if you would have said the words "Assembly of God" or "Pentecostal" to my dad, he would have stared at you blankly. But if you would have said to him "you know, those crazy ass Holy Rollers who talk in tongues and flop around on the ground" he would have gone "holy fucking shit!" and he would have intervened as much as he possibly could have. Instead, he checked the place out on Easter Sunday, when Pentecostal churches (well, the ones who aren't too crazy or stupid to make an attempt at P.R.) put their best foot forward and hide the bat-shittery in the attic. For all he could see it was no different from the respectable mainline Methodist church down the road, except more blue collar and exuberant. But my dad was kind of ignorant, too. He couldn't have given me the full horror story. He could have really only said things like "those people are nuts!" and told me the story about how grandpa, whose madness I had inherited (the family curse skipped my dad's generation and fell upon me), got taken advantage of by some vulture of a fundie preacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 My kids were both brought up as fundies and went to christian school. Neither of them identify as christians, and their reason is basically the same as mine, they aren't too impressed by what they have seen of christians. The eldest is exploring islam because she married a muslim, but has come to the conclusion that to have faith one does not need to join a group to express that. The other one thinks all religion is a crock. I never tried to influience either of them either way. They get to make their own decisions. the younger one told me the best thing I could have done is drop her into gaggle of christians so she could see how hypocritical they are up close and personal. I trust my kids to make their own decision but they are adults now. As a child I was terrorised by some of the shit I heard in church. The terror went on for years. It really is child abuse to frighten children with nasty images of burning and torture, and the possibility of being pursued by demons etc. That crap should be outlawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I kind of wish he would have put his foot down right away before I got fully roped in. Long story short, I became assimilated before long, and I learned pretty quick to stay quiet about all the Pentecostal kookiness because I knew he'd intervene. I'm not blaming him, because it was a tricky situation. But if he would have intervened and providing that I wouldn't have rebelled against him, I would have been spared over a decade's worth of severe headfuckery. I will assume that you knew how to think for yourself when you were 15. If I am wrong, correct me. Thank you for making the statement above. It gives me new motivation to continue in due diligence with my children and to protect their right to a youth, free from the "headfuckery" of idiot churchaholics who, unfortunately, live in the world around us. Pappy For the record, if he were my kid, I absolutely would have intervened in that situation. No way would I let the church get a hold of my kid. My earlier responses were simply a caution about knee jerk reactions to any brush with zealots. That said, given how teens rebel, if my kid wanted to go to church, I'd have to think long and hard for a solution that didn't come across as autocratic. If my kid were 15 like VC, I'd probably urge them into an exchange program for a year so they could go and see how the rest of the world lives. That would likely be enough to give them a contrast between the xian nutters in the US. The scariest thing, as far as I can tell, it seems like xianity has become popular amongst kids in the US over the last few years. I grew up in a small town in ID that was loaded with Nazarene and Mormon churches, but in school it was way uncool to be a xian. I was embarrassed by my faith and most of the kids I grew up with were pretty areligious. I would have never felt peer pressure to be religious at public school. I was pressured by my family not my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 For the record, if he were my kid, I absolutely would have intervened in that situation. No way would I let the church get a hold of my kid. My earlier responses were simply a caution about knee jerk reactions to any brush with zealots. I misjudged your original statements to mean much more than this Vigile. For that, I should apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It is somewhat hard for me to reply to this Pappy, because I have no kids (that I know of), if I may use that old chestnut. If I had, I would try to teach them to think for themselves, and, to a certain extent, I would teach them what fundamentalist christians would call the heresy of salvation by works. For I am of the belief that heaven and hell are merely names for states of mind, or of body, or both, which we MOSTLY create for ourselves, by our own actions on this earth, and that, assuming an afterlife exists, the same will obtain there. I say MOSTLY because, for what it is worth, I was educated in two christian schools, albeit they were catholic schools. Whilst I was in those schools, I saw a few of the rarer aspects of human nature that are not much discussed outside of police reports or court records of the more sordid kind. Some of the effects these things had on myself, I have related here. I must warn you and others, that in this post I make use of some very strong language; indeed I make use of the sort of language one would certainly not hear in a christian home. However, so did Oliver Cromwell at times, especially when he was angry, and, seeing as Cromwell was, among other things, certainly a christian, I can only beg leave to make the same excuse for using it as he did. Even if either heaven or hell exists in the afterlife, my own belief is that neither is eternal, because no one, (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and quite a few others notwithstanding) deserves to burn forever, although some, were there any justice, would certainly qualify to spend a few eons in such a place. Equally no one, in any one lifetime, is good enough to deserve eternal bliss at the end of it. Although after many lifetimes and having learned enough of how to really do the right thing, they may eventually be admitted to the same. From which you may see I also happen to believe in reincarnation. Wherefore I have come to the conclusion that all one can do is to live one's life in such a way that the tiny piece of this earth over which one holds any sway, is left just a little the better for one's having been there for those who will come after, and, if one's former neighbours should not speak too ill of one's life, then that will be a bonus on it. If that is salvation by works, so be it, and if that don't satisfy the christian God, then damn the christian God! And his followers, even unto the hell they are so desirous of seeing others thrown into, although of course, they will never admit it! If I had children, and if they learned as much, I would be happy enough. If, on the other hand, they were exposed to the sort of rot some fundamentalists talk, and it had affected them to the point of distress I would firstly attempt to set them straight as best I might. As well, I would be mightily displeased with those who had talked said rot, and would attempt to set them straight too, again as best I might, leaving out the use of violence, unless that were absolutely necessary. As I have no children, my apologies for having spoken of that which I know not, namely raising the same. Regards, Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 ... you may see I also happen to believe in reincarnation. I have, and still do, toy with the idea of reincarnation myself. Of course, I have no proof of such a thing, so defending it is impossible. I won't even attempt to do so. After all, it is only a theory, but holds much more intrigue for me than other theories, for my own personal reasons. If, on the other hand, they were exposed to the sort of rot some fundamentalists talk, and it had affected them to the point of distress I would firstly attempt to set them straight as best I might. As well, I would be mightily displeased with those who had talked said rot, and would attempt to set them straight too, again as best I might, leaving out the use of violence, unless that were absolutely necessary. Casey ... I agree with you in your statement here. I too would not resort too any type of violence, but strong reprimand of those who attempt to infect the minds of my children is in order. As I have no children, my apologies for having spoken of that which I know not, namely raising the same. There is no need to apologize. Your opinions are as valid as anyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Pappy suprisingly I agree with Vigile... not that my agreement or disagreement makes a damn bit of difference. We sometimes pride ourselves for lifting oursleves out of the jungle and erecting cities and societies. But I think in many ways we still live in a jungle of the mind. I think you are already doing many good things to prepare your child for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 strong reprimand of those who attempt to infect the minds of my children is in order. Why not go to them and tell them what's on your mind Pappy? I think it could be done firmly but respectfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 ... you may see I also happen to believe in reincarnation. I have, and still do, toy with the idea of reincarnation myself. Of course, I have no proof of such a thing, so defending it is impossible. I won't even attempt to do so. After all, it is only a theory, but holds much more intrigue for me than other theories, for my own personal reasons. Wow, more of us here than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 ... you may see I also happen to believe in reincarnation. I have, and still do, toy with the idea of reincarnation myself. Of course, I have no proof of such a thing, so defending it is impossible. I won't even attempt to do so. After all, it is only a theory, but holds much more intrigue for me than other theories, for my own personal reasons. Wow, more of us here than I thought. Indeed. Of course, I'm the crazyhead that believes that I remember past lives. Anyway, back to topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pappy Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 strong reprimand of those who attempt to infect the minds of my children is in order. Why not go to them and tell them what's on your mind Pappy? I think it could be done firmly but respectfully. Your idea works too and is not that far off from what I am suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I realize this is old, but I don't like any of the answers. I would just talk to the parents and say you don't believe what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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