Married To A Yec

[MagickMonkey]

1. MagickMonkey is correct. Don't call me "Sarge;" it's like calling a Jew a Christ-killer... okay, probably not that offensive.

 

So this makes number one, huh? lol

 

Ok, ok...

 

but so you know, any of you may refer to me as Sarge, ma'am, mistress, Mrs. President, OR foolish Goddess.. .. .. .. these are all acceptable to me.

 

Hehe, how about Not So Foolish Goddess?

[stryper]

Ok. Good that I refrained from slappin' ya back. Cause you are a very important Monkey

 

 

Hey now monkey slappin' should be in a PM

 

Sgt. There has been alot of good advice here. I would also suggest reading lawbringer’s post "update on my situation” he is going through something similar and there had been good advice there. Biggest difference is he's got two kids and is still active military.

 

The best thing to keep in mind is that you can only be who you are. You can try to keep up appearances, but it will eventually cause other problems.

 

As to the strengthening faith, I think that is a defense mechanism that is hard wired into us. It could be that there is something happening like the rejection of faith is a possible rejection of her because it is so important to her. I am not clear on how all the psychology would work, but it is a possibility.

 

anyway good luck!

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

I grew up in the good ol' CoC. I really hated it, but I am grateful for it in some ways. I actually was taught to read the entire bible from a young age and the horrible parts were always well known to me. There isn't really anything about the church or the belief system that made my life better in any way so there was no problem letting it go.

 

I suppose I deconverted initially because of the teachings of hell. My church really emphasized how even other Christians were going to hell so my grandparents, all of my extended family and all of my friends were doomed for hell according to the CoC. I realized that if this is the case then, fuck God I don't want to go to heaven without all the people I love anyway. I could see that there was no way my family could be convinced to convert to the Coc because there is no reason to assume they are right and there isn't any other draw to their particular dogma. I had a Hindu friend and we talked about religion a few times and I realized how ridiculous my beliefs must sound to her. I took a world religions class and any lingering doubts I had were pretty much resolved.

 

I honestly think CoC is one of the easier ones to break out of. Its so strict and so literal it only takes one little crack for the whole thing to fall apart. A lot of people on this site are ex-CoC and its interesting because CoC is pretty small compared to other denominations. I say it turns you into an atheist or an asshole! (Not that your wife is an asshole you get what I mean).

 

All the best! Honestly there isn't really a way to make her feel better about your eternal resting place unless she adapts her view of it. And that was the first step I had to deconversion. Since that is the basis for her emotional distress and possibly a basis for more common ground, I'd work on ways to reassure her you are not going to hell, however you think that could work.

[MagickMonkey]

Sgt. There has been alot of good advice here. I would also suggest reading lawbringer’s post "update on my situation” he is going through something similar and there had been good advice there. Biggest difference is he's got two kids and is still active military.

 

Yeah, he's a fellow devil dog.

[foolish girl]

 

 

Hehe, how about Not So Foolish Goddess?

 

Yes. You may call me Not So Foolish Goddess

[MagickMonkey]

Hehe, how about Not So Foolish Goddess?

 

Yes. You may call me Not So Foolish Goddess

 

All hail the Not So Foolish Goddess, Queen of all Heathendom.

[foolish girl]

Hehe, how about Not So Foolish Goddess?

 

Yes. You may call me Not So Foolish Goddess

 

All hail the Not So Foolish Goddess, Queen of all Heathendom.

 

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaat's better. Good monkey.

[stryper]

wow has this post drifted off topic.

[MagickMonkey]

I grew up in the good ol' CoC. I really hated it, but I am grateful for it in some ways. I actually was taught to read the entire bible from a young age and the horrible parts were always well known to me. There isn't really anything about the church or the belief system that made my life better in any way so there was no problem letting it go.

 

I suppose I deconverted initially because of the teachings of hell. My church really emphasized how even other Christians were going to hell so my grandparents, all of my extended family and all of my friends were doomed for hell according to the CoC. I realized that if this is the case then, fuck God I don't want to go to heaven without all the people I love anyway. I could see that there was no way my family could be convinced to convert to the Coc because there is no reason to assume they are right and there isn't any other draw to their particular dogma. I had a Hindu friend and we talked about religion a few times and I realized how ridiculous my beliefs must sound to her. I took a world religions class and any lingering doubts I had were pretty much resolved.

 

I honestly think CoC is one of the easier ones to break out of. Its so strict and so literal it only takes one little crack for the whole thing to fall apart. A lot of people on this site are ex-CoC and its interesting because CoC is pretty small compared to other denominations. I say it turns you into an atheist or an asshole! (Not that your wife is an asshole you get what I mean).

 

All the best! Honestly there isn't really a way to make her feel better about your eternal resting place unless she adapts her view of it. And that was the first step I had to deconversion. Since that is the basis for her emotional distress and possibly a basis for more common ground, I'd work on ways to reassure her you are not going to hell, however you think that could work.

 

I never thought about that. I wonder if I would be an atheist today if I was raised as a baptist or catholic.

[Denise]

It took me 2-3 years before I deconverted.

 

I just wanted to add here that from the start of my "spiritual" journey, it took me 2-3 years to deconvert SO my husband had to deal with my christianity and "spiritual" journey, up to my deconversion, for a total of 6, yep SIX, YEARS...He survived it and we are even that much closer...my "total" deconversion is still very recent and am willing to help those needing to understand their significant other.

 

Plus, remember we hate door knockers that push their stuff on us so we need to also be mindful of our christian friends and family that may not yet be ready...if they are happy leave them be...did you tell all the kids the tooth fairy or santa isn't real as soon as you found out and were upset over it? Do you play tooth fairy and santa with you kids or whomever now? Chew on that for a while...it is the same as believing in a fairy tale god/goddess to me. Hope that makes sense...

[MagickMonkey]

My wife and I made a point to let the kids know from the start that Santa, Tooth Fairy, etc. were just pretend.

[Denise]

My wife and I made a point to let the kids know from the start that Santa, Tooth Fairy, etc. were just pretend.

 

So did my ex and I with our son, my youngest, though he did say he wished we would have allowed him to believe, he was disappointed about that...lol...my other 2 older kids were upset when they found out they weren't real, so either way they may not be happy about it I guess, lol!

[MagickMonkey]

My wife and I made a point to let the kids know from the start that Santa, Tooth Fairy, etc. were just pretend.

 

So did my ex and I with our son, my youngest, though he did say he wished we would have allowed him to believe, he was disappointed about that...lol...my other 2 older kids were upset when they found out they weren't real, so either way they may not be happy about it I guess, lol!

 

Yeah, there's a chance of disappointment either way, but allowing them to believe and then having them find out it's not real damages a parent's credibility.

[Denise]

My wife and I made a point to let the kids know from the start that Santa, Tooth Fairy, etc. were just pretend.

 

So did my ex and I with our son, my youngest, though he did say he wished we would have allowed him to believe, he was disappointed about that...lol...my other 2 older kids were upset when they found out they weren't real, so either way they may not be happy about it I guess, lol!

 

Yeah, there's a chance of disappointment either way, but allowing them to believe and then having them find out it's not real damages a parent's credibility.

 

Yep, I have to agree with you there! It's kind of a catch 22 depending on the kids too and how well or not so well they take it. I am SO VERY glad to be done with having kids. I'm still trying to figure out what the heck I am going to do when the grand kids start coming, yikes! If my kids are still christians at that time I will have to sit down with them or something, as the grand kids get older anyways. At least I won't have to worry about that with my oldest son whom I found out last month also has left the faith - whooo hooo! I was SO relieved because he lives with us and his dad, (whom I am now married to, another story) also a non believer.

[Shadowbound]

Howdy folks,

 

I'm a long-time lurker, but I've never really posted. I'll keep my story brief, in the hopes that someone who has gone through a similar situation can offer some advice.

 

Over the past 2 or so years, I converted from fundamentalist Christianity to atheism. I don't really remember where it started. I read many books, from "pop atheism" such as Dawkins and Hitchens, to books on evolution, geology, radiometric dating, etc. I began questioning my faith several months before I went back to college. I have taken a lot of natural science courses, and each semester, the truth became more and more undeniable.

 

I have been married almost three years now (no children), and my wife and I are members of the fundie church, church of Christ. I'm sure some of you are familiar with them, though they are a rather small denomination. My father in law has been a preacher for churches of Christ for 30 or so years, and my wife is absolutely passionate about her faith. She feels betrayed by my deconversion. It is difficult to get her to even talk to me about why I don't believe anymore. She keeps on telling me, "I have heard the arguments about Christianity; I can't see myself staying my mind." I am a former Marine, and occasionally, I have cynical tendencies. She always tells me that my cynicism led to me losing my faith.

 

We were very, very close before my deconversion, and the strength of our relationship has kept us together. I keep thinking it will get better each month, but it continues to get more difficult (we began speaking about my doubts six months or so ago). I try to be respectful of her views, but I refuse to pray before meals, I only go to church Sunday mornings (this is a sincere exercise in my patients... but churches of Christ meet twice on Sundays and once again during the week, so this is a compromise I'm willing to make if it can save my marriage), I do not sing in church, I do not take communion, etc. I absolutely want to stay with her, but it is incredibly difficult, with our worldviews.

 

Her armor of faith seems impenetrable. She claims she is open minded to my arguments, but she most certainly is not. Any advice? Have any men/ women deconverted their fundie spouses (I know that it is uncommon)? How long does it take? How do you plant that first seed of doubt? What was your most powerful argument?

 

Thank you, and Rationalism bless.

 

Hello Sir,

 

My name is Arlan, nice to meet you. This is my first post and I will keep it as short as my typing fingers allow. A lot of opinions and advice here, hope mine helps out as well.

Love, that is where I will start. You do not need a god to love unconditionally, if unconditional is even a valid/real term and not just fantasy mind you. You started your marriage with love, why should any of this change now that you have changed how you choose to view the world in regard to religion. This applies to both of you. Change is something people speak of when talking about their spouses, yet I wonder how many people realize that wanting to change a person or a persons beliefs shows that you do not love the person, but what you want the person to be, make sense? I am very new to this atheist/agnostic view that I am developing, but I can say this, it does not bother me one bit that others choose to believe in god. I do not think they are wrong or need to change, the point I am making is that xtians tend to want to change everyone, make them believe what they believe, god, hell, and the like. They use fear to "encourage" you in the "right" direction. Do not fall victim to this yourself, there is no need to change your wife's beliefs, and no need to change your own.

 

Something I found troubling reading through some of the replies was that a couple people including you, still attend church every Sunday (Like a good Xtian should) without a regard to your own feelings about the matter. I see this in two views. 1) You love your spouse enough to sacrifice your own beliefs, even for the moment, in an attempt to appease them and their beliefs. (Thus giving them a mixed signal, xtians feed on these mixed signals and confusion, and find it a way to change you. Keep that in mind.) 2) You are not quite sure of your own beliefs (no harm there, that's what got you to this point anyway) and still attend due to a moral obligation you find in yourself. I belive even a third exists, and that stems from obligation, especially in your case, to others not just your spouse. Maybe the family, friends, other church goers. Do not hide or hinder your beliefs in anyway to appease another human, as they will not do the same to you.

 

I guess all in all, look into your heart (metaphorical), only you know what you really believe. Then stick to your guns sir, and excuse the language here, but F*ck everyone else and their opinion in this matter. If this xtian god does exist, it matters not what anyone else does or thinks, only what YOU do or think.

 

Take it easy bro, and sorry to hear your having troubles with what should be your best friend. (So much for the short version, dang fingers.)

[sgtbrushes]

Thanks for more advice, everyone. I will respectfully disagree with several things Shadowbound said.

 

you... still attend church every Sunday (Like a good Xtian should) without a regard to your own feelings about the matter... You are not quite sure of your own beliefs (no harm there, that's what got you to this point anyway) and still attend due to a moral obligation you find in yourself. I belive even a third exists, and that stems from obligation, especially in your case, to others not just your spouse. Maybe the family, friends, other church goers.

100% false. I have substantially more conviction in my worldview now than I ever held as a Christian. I am quite sure of my belief, and I don't give a shit about anybody else, except for my wife. I'm not sure if you're married or not, but "I'm an atheist, so I'm not going to church," does not work in a relationship. Me going to church is not me wavering in my atheism or feeling obligated because of church members. It's me not wanting to hurt my wife that badly... as others have said, CoC is very judgmental, and for the first month after my deconversion, I did not attend, and people shat on her.

 

I wonder how many people realize that wanting to change a person or a persons beliefs shows that you do not love the person, but what you want the person to be, make sense?...Do not fall victim to this yourself, there is no need to change your wife's beliefs, and no need to change your own.

Again, I will have to disagree. The CoC is incredibly conservative, and our worldviews differ so much, it is impossible for us to stay together indefinitely if neither of us is converted. For instance, we cannot have kids until we have, at a minimum, at least a more similar worldview.

[Shadowbound]

Thanks for more advice, everyone. I will respectfully disagree with several things Shadowbound said.

 

you... still attend church every Sunday (Like a good Xtian should) without a regard to your own feelings about the matter... You are not quite sure of your own beliefs (no harm there, that's what got you to this point anyway) and still attend due to a moral obligation you find in yourself. I belive even a third exists, and that stems from obligation, especially in your case, to others not just your spouse. Maybe the family, friends, other church goers.

100% false. I have substantially more conviction in my worldview now than I ever held as a Christian. I am quite sure of my belief, and I don't give a shit about anybody else, except for my wife. I'm not sure if you're married or not, but "I'm an atheist, so I'm not going to church," does not work in a relationship. Me going to church is not me wavering in my atheism or feeling obligated because of church members. It's me not wanting to hurt my wife that badly... as others have said, CoC is very judgmental, and for the first month after my deconversion, I did not attend, and people shat on her.

 

I wonder how many people realize that wanting to change a person or a persons beliefs shows that you do not love the person, but what you want the person to be, make sense?...Do not fall victim to this yourself, there is no need to change your wife's beliefs, and no need to change your own.

Again, I will have to disagree. The CoC is incredibly conservative, and our worldviews differ so much, it is impossible for us to stay together indefinitely if neither of us is converted. For instance, we cannot have kids until we have, at a minimum, at least a more similar worldview.

 

I am sorry to quote the whole post I am about to leave for school, and did not have the time to multiquote, well learn it that is. For the first reply, I am curious why you chose to quote that, I gave three opinons of my own as to why someone may go to church even as an atheist, the first one clearly fits your described situation better, to include the reply. A little of the third. So there is no reason for you to look to number 2. I am not trying to challenge your conviction sir, that is why I said something along the lines of you going to appease your wife regardless of your feelings. I am married, and luckily my wife and I both had around the same opinon on the matter, as we had discussed it thoroughly beforehand. I am very sorry that the church of christ is so judgemental, and your wife had to take that abuse from them while you were away. That does in a way though support my 3rd theory, in that you are going out of obligation, whether yours or not is not the case. The obligation resides in the people who shat on your wife, you dont want that to happen, thus your obligated to go. I am sorry if that portion brought up a defense from you, that was not my intent.

 

As far as the second one goes, I have written and erased my reply 3 times now, due to an inability to construct something meaningful and supportive here. I can only suggest, that since you and your wife individually are set in your beliefs now, that you must find another way to bridge the gap. I dont really...this part just isn't my business sir, and I apologize for commenting in the first place.

 

Take care and I hope everything works out for you and your family.

[lunaticheathen]

My wife and I made a point to let the kids know from the start that Santa, Tooth Fairy, etc. were just pretend.

 

So did my ex and I with our son, my youngest, though he did say he wished we would have allowed him to believe, he was disappointed about that...lol...my other 2 older kids were upset when they found out they weren't real, so either way they may not be happy about it I guess, lol!

 

Yeah, there's a chance of disappointment either way, but allowing them to believe and then having them find out it's not real damages a parent's credibility.

 

FWIW, my parents never told me Santa or the Tooth Fairy weren't real, and pretended. I just worked it out for myself, and held no grudge. I kind of saw the point. *shrug*

Back to topic

[trulyfree]

sgtbrushes:

I don't want to sound like a douche, but other than the whole heathen thing, I'm pretty much the best husband ever. I'm not saying I will give her a "It's me or god" u:ltimatum, but maybe she will see which one of us actually has a positive impact on her life.

I married my husband, an atheist, when I was a Christian. We agreed not to try to convert each other and we had very few conversations/ debates regarding religion. He is one of the best people I know and I think his example of being an atheist and a good person helped me overcome the fear that the church drills into their victims that all non christians are bad. He put up with my Christianity for 8 years! If you are a great husband, she probably knows it, and will see over time that you don't have to be a Christian to be good. The fact that you attend church with her to protect her from being treated like crap (by so called loving christians) says a lot about how much you care.

She absolutely believes in a literal hell. "Knowing," without a doubt, that her husband will spend eternity suffering, is part of the reason this is so difficult.

The hell concept was my first major crack. It broke my heart to think my husband would spend eternity in misery. I would periodically look up the scripture regarding hell only to find that it was still there, waiting to suck my dear husband up. Then, a first happened - a non believing friend of mine died. I finally realized that if god wants none of us to perish and loves us enough to send his son to be reviled and killed in such a grisly manner, how can he send us to hell? Since you've agreed not to try to deconvert her, you can't use that argument but it's a thought.

As for inconsistencies in the Bible, her father has a PhD and teaches college-level apologetics courses... he is the mother of all rationalizers. He is actually a great man, but, as many others do, compartmentalizes his religion into an area of his brain where its irrationality is tolerated. She accepts the weak apologetic "answers" to these problems.

It will be really hard for her to let go if she admires her father. It's almost a choice between you and him even if she doesn't realize it. I've heard it said that for most of us, our view of god is based on our relationship with our dads. If she ever starts thinking critically she'll see the problems with his weak arguments. Getting her to admit it will be the hard part.

By the way, you need to tell your husband every day "Thank you;" imagine going through the motions for three years like he did. It is difficult.

Yeah...I do thank my hubby and apologize (though he didn't have to go through the motions, just put up with it from me). I kept mostly to myself about religion but it bleeds out the pores no matter what. Give it some time. You've made a life changing decision and she needs some time to adjust. Hopefully she'll deconvert too. Good call on the kids but it sounds like you may want them someday. I wish you the best.

[Lawlbringer]

Sgtbrushes,

 

Just read your post and I can relate to it. Active duty SSgt that just got off of recruiting duty, Semper Fi. Just making it through recruiting is a feat for most....that duty tested me like no other. I just got back from Rhode Island and I am about to talk with my wife about my doubts with religion again. Last October, I told her I did not believe in God and she left me for 3 months. It is a mess and I feel pathetic for relapsing. Just trying to get the nerve to talk to her again. Once I take that step there is no turning back.

 

I have gone to church many times with my wife when I did not feel like it. Right now she is going to a church that is active in speaking in tongues and being slayed in the spirit. I am not comfortable with going at all. I grew up Pentacostal and grew up with "hellfire and Brimestone" sermons, strange tongues and people collapsing on the floor. I get angry when I go to church and here the sermons and the simplistic messages that people cling too. I cant do it anymore. This kind of church brings back painful memories of my childhood that I would rather not get into here. If I did not grow up in such a hardline denomination I do not think I would currently be an Atheist.

 

My wife is very fundamental. She belives in everything the Bible says. She belives in the flood, hell, Genesis, OT, NT, ressurection, doesnt believe in evolution. Closed minded for sure. Yet she has cheated on me from 6 months of marriage up until 6 years. Obviously there are more issues than just religion between us. I am just upset all the times she would put me down early in our relationship when I tried to explain how "religion" was so hard for me to practice. But I tried because I loved her. Meanwhile behind my back she was living a lie.

 

If I did not have two beautiful kids I would of ended it a long time ago. I am just finally too tired to bend who I am to be accepted by someone.

 

When we met though she was far from fundamental. We drank, partied, had pre-martial sex, never went to church, never prayed....that all changed when we got married.

 

I wish I could say something that could help you. I just wanted to say that I feel your pain brother. If you want to chat offline, send me an email or whatnot. I hope everything works out with the two of you!

[mick]

I feel for you. I may be an exception. I deconverted from Fundie Christianity 5 years ago. My wife has actually got more extreme in her fundamentalist faith. (She is major Word Faith movement type now.) It was very hard at first, but we actually get along great now. I am hopeful that our future will be goood. SOmetimes I wonder if the differences between us religion-wise are hidden and covered up while we are raising our chilren. And that mayb things will be harder later, when it is just the two of us.

 

I think it is important for you to truly recognize the reality that already have come to. That is that you and your wife are both just human beings. Try to connect with her as a human being that loves her. Be special to her in your actions, and stay as clear as possible of the things that hurt your relationship. We recognize that this is the only life we got, and you have stated a strong desire to be honest (hence your public declaration of no longer having faith) and your desire to be with the women you love regardless. You must recognize that if you are choosing that you love her and are dedicated to her, then you are accepting her completely, as she is now. Believe me I know it is hard. I have had many moments where I felt like I love my wife more than I ever have, and would give her the whole world if I could, but what she really wants I cannot give her. (Spiritual leadership, companionship) And that breaks my heart. The thing I have noticed recently, at least in my case, is what my wife really wants is a connection with me. She wants to talk. She is very into her faith, but she is able to talk to me about politics, love, sports, etc. Maybe I am lucky, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if she is worth spending a lifetime with, then she will love YOU, not what you believe. And you must do the same. Does that make sense?

 

Howdy folks,

 

I'm a long-time lurker, but I've never really posted. I'll keep my story brief, in the hopes that someone who has gone through a similar situation can offer some advice.

 

Over the past 2 or so years, I converted from fundamentalist Christianity to atheism. I don't really remember where it started. I read many books, from "pop atheism" such as Dawkins and Hitchens, to books on evolution, geology, radiometric dating, etc. I began questioning my faith several months before I went back to college. I have taken a lot of natural science courses, and each semester, the truth became more and more undeniable.

 

I have been married almost three years now (no children), and my wife and I are members of the fundie church, church of Christ. I'm sure some of you are familiar with them, though they are a rather small denomination. My father in law has been a preacher for churches of Christ for 30 or so years, and my wife is absolutely passionate about her faith. She feels betrayed by my deconversion. It is difficult to get her to even talk to me about why I don't believe anymore. She keeps on telling me, "I have heard the arguments about Christianity; I can't see myself staying my mind." I am a former Marine, and occasionally, I have cynical tendencies. She always tells me that my cynicism led to me losing my faith.

 

We were very, very close before my deconversion, and the strength of our relationship has kept us together. I keep thinking it will get better each month, but it continues to get more difficult (we began speaking about my doubts six months or so ago). I try to be respectful of her views, but I refuse to pray before meals, I only go to church Sunday mornings (this is a sincere exercise in my patients... but churches of Christ meet twice on Sundays and once again during the week, so this is a compromise I'm willing to make if it can save my marriage), I do not sing in church, I do not take communion, etc. I absolutely want to stay with her, but it is incredibly difficult, with our worldviews.

 

Her armor of faith seems impenetrable. She claims she is open minded to my arguments, but she most certainly is not. Any advice? Have any men/ women deconverted their fundie spouses (I know that it is uncommon)? How long does it take? How do you plant that first seed of doubt? What was your most powerful argument?

 

Thank you, and Rationalism bless.