Christian Spanking, Domination

[blackpudd1n]

Hey everyone, I have a situation that I desperately need advice on and this topic fits perfectly. A bit of background because I haven't been around in a while. I am 33, my wife 30. We were both raised in a fundy, kjv-only, independent baptist church on par with Pensacola Chrisitan College or Jack Hyles for those of you who are familiar with them. We go married young, 22 & 19, when my wife got pregnant with our first child. We now have 3 - 10,9, and 8. I deconverted a little over 2 years ago, and insisted on stop going to church, while she followed closely after. We were raised with the mindset expressed in this post, except we were never that good at it. We followed what our parents had done and yelled and generally spanked when we were pissed when they were doing something that bothered us. After we deconverted, I became very uncomfortable with spanking and instead switched to more of time-out method. We are both extremely busy, she is in school, while I was working and going to law school. This led to not alot of monitoring of the kids - lots of tv, etc. Basically they went from getting smacked around to not having much discipline at all. I am definitely not proud of that, but it is what it is. Which brings me to my current problem. We have tried over the last several months to become better parents and to guide them, but somedays they are out of control. I know it is my fault, but I need advice on how to deal with it if anyone has been in a similar situation. My daughter, the 9 year old, is especially proplamatic. She is outright defiant, refuses to listen, gives an attitude anytime she is told to do something and on more than one occasion has informed us that she hates us. Her younger brother is starting to pick up on that attitude too. What lead me to post is that tonight, when I got home from work (I work, my wife has class) the babysitter quit. She said they refused to listen, they were throwing things at her, calling her names, etc. I am at my wits end on how to deal with it. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks

 

I don't have kids, first and foremost. But I think the best thing you guys can do is go and get some family counselling, and for your wife and yourself to do some parenting workshops, both secular. Your kids have just gone through a shit load of change- no more church, the way they've been disciplined has been changed, their whole little world has been turned upside down.

 

Please, go and see a professional about all of this, because I suspect that there are some things to be worked through, and that perhaps there are some things upsetting the kids that you and your wife may not be completely aware of. That doesn't make you bad parents. You're just a couple in transition, and you need some strategies because the church didn't provide much in the way of parenting advice (never does).

[stryper]

puddin has a good point.

 

I would also suggest...somehow....to find to sit down with your kids and play. Talking can be involved of course, but don't make it a lecture time. Maybe a couple of times a week sit down with then a pick an activity one they like and go do it.

 

From some people that I consider to be successful parents taking time to be with them without TV computers or video games, and just being helps. The best story I heard was from a guy who left his job and worked from home for less money just to be able to do this. The conversations he described while fishing with his two boys were interesting. Sometimes they didn't even talk just sat together.

 

It also sounds like their routine has been screwed up. Lack of a structure causes them to create it on their own. Often this causes stress in the child, which could lead to behavior problem.

 

Your daughter is probably on the edges of puberty if she has started already, and as we all know women respond to hormone changes differently. If she is just starting, then that is a major change in any kids life, but women get more obvious hormonal changes. I only say this because my sister started puberty at 8yrs old, and i have a teenage cousin that was about that age too. PMS can be a bitch.

 

She also could be exploring her increased independence in a very dramatic way.

 

Have you considered sports? My 3yr old is soooooo much better when he spends an hour or so outside running around or doing anything for about an hour that is vigorous activity. Though that can cause it's own issues as he gets over tired and gets cranky because of that too.

 

A point that was made to me early on was you are always the parent. When kids start trying to be the parents, problems arise.

 

Anyway just some suggestions.

[Shinigami]

Wow, this stuff brings back memories, and not good ones... My mom does not believe in spanking anymore, and my dad probably would still spank but mom does not let him. I am not going to relate my experiences because my wonderful mother reads this forum as well, and I don't want to hurt her feelings. I will say how ever that I completely agree. Spanking was designed to break a child’s will. Ha, while they are at it they might as well put a shock collar on the poor kid and zap him every time he does something wrong. It is like beating a dog into submission; the only difference is that a dog is an animal, not your own son or daughter.

[LivingLife]

Sokme good advice here. Spanking has a short timeframe where it is appropriate but as kids grow older and you can reason with them, discipline needs to adapt. My kids turned out alright and still respect me.

 

We expect kids to learn and by trying to break their wills does not work. By the time my kids were your kids age, I was in my late 30's early 40's so I too had grown past the immature stage of the 20's. You married too young IMO but that cannpt be undone.

 

There is no hard and fast rule to parenting and we do the best we can. Our society is geared to reward and punishment, but the punishment should fit the crime.

 

Councelling seems to be the best option, secular as the church really does not give good advice.

[Mudhoney]

Hey everyone, I have a situation that I desperately need advice on and this topic fits perfectly. A bit of background because I haven't been around in a while. I am 33, my wife 30. We were both raised in a fundy, kjv-only, independent baptist church on par with Pensacola Chrisitan College or Jack Hyles for those of you who are familiar with them. We go married young, 22 & 19, when my wife got pregnant with our first child. We now have 3 - 10,9, and 8. I deconverted a little over 2 years ago, and insisted on stop going to church, while she followed closely after. We were raised with the mindset expressed in this post, except we were never that good at it. We followed what our parents had done and yelled and generally spanked when we were pissed when they were doing something that bothered us. After we deconverted, I became very uncomfortable with spanking and instead switched to more of time-out method. We are both extremely busy, she is in school, while I was working and going to law school. This led to not alot of monitoring of the kids - lots of tv, etc. Basically they went from getting smacked around to not having much discipline at all. I am definitely not proud of that, but it is what it is. Which brings me to my current problem. We have tried over the last several months to become better parents and to guide them, but somedays they are out of control. I know it is my fault, but I need advice on how to deal with it if anyone has been in a similar situation. My daughter, the 9 year old, is especially proplamatic. She is outright defiant, refuses to listen, gives an attitude anytime she is told to do something and on more than one occasion has informed us that she hates us. Her younger brother is starting to pick up on that attitude too. What lead me to post is that tonight, when I got home from work (I work, my wife has class) the babysitter quit. She said they refused to listen, they were throwing things at her, calling her names, etc. I am at my wits end on how to deal with it. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks

 

I don't have any advice for you but I am glad that you stopped spanking. For you xtian parents reading this (or anyone ex-c's who still spank), please stop spanking your children!!!!!! You are damaging them for life!!! Growing up in a fundy home where spankings were given out almost daily, it was extremely humiliating and scary. I will be traumatized for the rest of my life. The xtians are INSANE with all of the sicko, perverted, spanking books written by James Dobson, Tedd Tripp, and Micheal Pearl that they can't get enough of. The emphasis in these books on pulling your kids pants down and breaking their will is truly disgusting. How can they not see anything wrong with this? Xtianity is INSANE!!!!!!!!!

[blackpudd1n]

We expect kids to learn and by trying to break their wills does not work.

 

As a child both my sister and I were abused by our mother verbally, physically, and emotionally.

 

I saw the effect on my sister. i still remember the day we were all walking along, I was only about 10, my sister ahead, and my mother making snide remarks about her to me, and I realised in that moment that my sister's spirit had been broken. She had given up. That was the moment that I decided that no-one was ever going to break my spirit.

 

Since then, many have tried to break me, but none have ever succeeded, because of my decision. Not fundamentalism, not an abusive marriage, not youth homelessness, foster care, bipolar, nothing. But my sister's sprit is still broken, 16 years later. She is still a fundy, too. I know who my sister is. it's not the facade that the world sees, and I haven't seen the real her in so very long.

 

My mother set out to break our wills. She succeeded with my sister, but failed royally with me. I am my biological mother's greatest frustration. She has broken the will of so many others, but not me.

[DesertBob]

A few random thoughts based on my own experience with my daughter and my fiancee's daughter and my observation of how other parents struggle from time to time with their children. For what they're worth ...

 

Some children are strong-willed relative to others, and as may be the case here -- relative to their parents. Some of them come out of the womb as spitfires. This is a real challenge for "spare the rod, spoil the child" types. James Dobson (from Focus on the Family) wrote an entire book about it, The Strong-Willed Child, as an addendum to his earlier Dare to Discipline back in the 70's I believe, and those books and others have reinforced the idea in Christian-doom that such children must be "broken" at all costs or you're derelict in your duty as a parent.

 

With such children especially, beyond a certain age, and this 9 year old is likely already there, corporal punishment only makes matters worse. Corporal punishment just becomes a frustrated expression of your own impotence and lack of confidence in how to proceed.

 

My observation is that if a parent is of the more common type that likes to keep short accounts and "work out" things "right now" then when dealing with a child like this you are only spinning your wheels. Often such children express insecurity or anxiety via anger rather than other default forms of acting out and this totally does not compute with a lot of parents. When this happens the kid's executive function just doesn't work and if you press them they will use every form of projection and cruelty and general buggery imaginable. Such children can't stand talking about feelings and subjective matters unless they happen to be in a receptive mood at the moment, and even then, their ability to do so is fairly limited. They also have problems handling ambiguity -- they want everything to be totally black and white, hence everything either meets their (immature) expectations or it's horrible. All they seem to know to do is pull out a flame-thrower and scorch the earth for miles around in response.

 

In such a situation you need to learn that it's okay to walk away from conflict. Such children know exactly how to press buttons and you have to refuse to let them be pressed. That doesn't mean you allow a child to do as they please but you do not engage in rationalizations, explanations, pleading, or ultimatums because the kid will simply attack, press buttons, and lead you in circular arguments that make your head spin. The magic phrase is, "we'll talk about this later", which is fine so long as "later" eventually comes You wait for them to calm down -- you'll find that unlike you they don't lose any sleep over such conflicts and can let it go pretty quickly -- and then you talk about it on your own terms. That sounds lame but if you can tough it out they start to respect you because they realize they can't threaten you or dismay you, and then they start coming to you of their own accord. Or at least I've seen it happen. The way out of the woods is different for every child / parent / family dynamic. But mostly it involves letting go of your expectations for how parenting your child feels subjectively / emotionally to you. Sometimes parenting is a miserable, shit-for-thanks slog and you go for long periods not liking your child very much at all. That is more common than you think.

 

The "break their will" crowd is just basically trying to make the parenting experience fit a fairly narrow expectation of how it's "supposed" to be.

 

Also consider whether your relationship to your children is really appropriate. I personally did not have a clue about how to parent. I tended to treat my children like peers or buddies and there was not enough distance between us. This created no problems with my easy-going son but my more aggressive-natured daughter and I got into a weird dynamic where, in retrospect, I think she wanted me up on a right proper pedestal and couldn't respect me if I wasn't. She kept poking at me, demanding free cars and later when she was out of the nest, random financial assistance. If I said no to anything whatsoever she would blow up. Eventually I figured out that I needed to be less a buddy and more of a Dad, obvious as that may seem to many reading this. Making some relatively minor but significant changes transformed our relationship.

 

Anyway I hope this might spark an idea or three for you to ponder and try to apply to your unique situation. As someone else suggested, family counseling might be helpful if you feel stuck.

[ConureDelSol]

James Dobson (from Focus on the Family) wrote an entire book about it, The Strong-Willed Child, as an addendum to his earlier Dare to Discipline back in the 70's I believe, and those books and others have reinforced the idea in Christian-doom that such children must be "broken" at all costs or you're derelict in your duty as a parent.

 

I have to listen to that creep every other freaking morning. My parents don't seem to understand why I include him in my hatred of EVERYONE on AFR.

 

Lawyer, maybe you need to call SuperNanny...

[mymistake]

I know it is my fault, but I need advice on how to deal with it if anyone has been in a similar situation. My daughter, the 9 year old, is especially proplamatic. She is outright defiant, refuses to listen, gives an attitude anytime she is told to do something and on more than one occasion has informed us that she hates us. Her younger brother is starting to pick up on that attitude too. What lead me to post is that tonight, when I got home from work (I work, my wife has class) the babysitter quit. She said they refused to listen, they were throwing things at her, calling her names, etc. I am at my wits end on how to deal with it. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks

 

My kids are younger than yours and I started earlier (that is pure luck) so I don't know how much I can help you.

 

To tell you the truth I never had control of my kids at all until they got electronic gear that I could take away from them. Now I give a warning and then the groundings begin in increments. I start with the computer for today. Then it's the Wii for today. Then it's the Playstation for today. I try to make TV the last thing. But if they are being very bad I start in on the next day. If the sobbing starts I try to talk them into calming down. It's hard. I was trained to be an angry parent who makes a lot of noise. When I remember to not do that but instead to be above it I have more success. This goes against my training but but it's more effective. Don't hesitate to get a secular family therapist. I've found the 1-2-3 Magic program to help.

[DesertBob]

If the sobbing starts I try to talk them into calming down. It's hard. I was trained to be an angry parent who makes a lot of noise. When I remember to not do that but instead to be above it I have more success. This goes against my training but but it's more effective.

This. You said it more succinctly than I.

[Luv2knit]

Okay, I was a spanking fundy. I cringe when I look back! My son is now on here also, Shinigami. He was very respectful, I appreciate that but I told him I was having to deal with the crap from these wacky teachings also. So he was free to talk about his feelings. But anyways. My little ones now are treated with respect and allowed to be who they are. I do give them guidance, but I let them have feelings! My littlest guy has melt downs, he's 5. He wants his way. I send him to his room to adjust his own attitude. He always comes down with a smile and we talk about what happened. Life moves on and his will is still his. This is life in our house. We talk a lot. Feelings are recognized and respected within reason. If someone is being unreasonable, time is given for them to think about what is going on and how things should be handled. I have awesome kiddos.

 

Now, some things to consider. 1. What do your kiddos eat on a daily basis? I found, when my kids were eating a lot of junk; full of food dyes, various sweeteners, crap they misbehaved. They were monsters! I cleaned up their diets and they became different little people.

2. How much sleep do they get? Over tired children misbehave. Get a good sleep schedule in place. 3. How much time do you spend with them? Children will seek out your attention in some form even if it is negative attention. Time spent is so important. I realize life is busy. Make time with your kiddos a priority. Sit down and simply ask them why they are misbehaving. Listen to what they have to say. Take it to heart. Fix whatever is wrong.

 

Parenting is not for the faint of heart!

[DesertBob]

2. How much sleep do they get? Over tired children misbehave. Get a good sleep schedule in place.

And this is NOT just a problem for little kids. Our 17 year old had a speech meet snowed out last Friday and had 3 days at home with nothing to do. It transformed her. She became a pleasant, enjoyable human being. I was beginning to wonder if she had it in her anymore! All because she got a couple good night's sleep.

 

Once kids get to middle school and especially high school, the testing and extra-curricular activities culture kicks in. Particularly if your kids are on an honors track / taking AP classes, it becomes common for them (and their friends) to stay up night after night studying until 2 or 3 am. This was unheard of in my day. A documentary I'd urge any parent of older kids to see, before high school if not sooner: The Race to Nowhere. At any rate ... don't under-estimate the role of school culture in kids's behavior. Take an active role in limiting their commitments, particularly if the child is very social. Teach them to prioritize, and how to say no. Our 17 year old said no to school plays this year, took fewer AP classes, and she's still frantic most of the time. It's ridiculous.

[Antikristos]

My mother used a belt until I was about 12. Funny thing is I can't remember doing very much to deserve more than just a smack on the behind with a hand. She usually kept it to three swats but if she felt frazzled and lost her temper it could be many more than that. I remember it to be a terrifying experience...especially when she lost her temper. Of course, the rest of the time she said she loved me and would do pretty much anything for me. It's kind of confusing to be spoiled and overprotected and then to have your mother lose it on you with a belt. I was always well behaved...but I was far from submissive. Instead of creating a spirit of submission, I think it actually helped stoke the fires of rebellion in me.

 

She eventually realized it wasn't working when I started laughing at her each time she'd go for the belt. Sometimes I laughed out of defiance but other times I was genuinely struck funny by the look on her face. She ended up taking a less violent approach and I think it worked much better. I think if she had it to do over she'd have been less likely to go for a belt each time I did something that pissed her off.

[badpuppy]

This reinforces my view that spanking should be an act between consenting adults only. There is something so completely sexual about the whole thing that it seems a perversion to enact that upon a child. Grown adults? Sure. If they're into that. In fact, I had to get through most of the original OP post before I realized this was NOT about kinky Christian adults but was about Christians spanking children. The fact that I couldn't immediately discern that it was the latter is somewhat disturbing.

[badpuppy]

being spanked with embaressing rituals turned me into a pervert. I'm not being sarcastic or humorous, its the truth. i was turned on by it since childhood.

 

Same here. Of course, as an adult in a consensual relationship, I embrace it. But I have no doubts being spanked as a child combined with the bizarrely sadomasochistic subtext of fundie Christianity sealed the deal. Only awesome thing I got out of Christianity.

[badpuppy]

Hey everyone, I have a situation that I desperately need advice on and this topic fits perfectly. A bit of background because I haven't been around in a while. I am 33, my wife 30. We were both raised in a fundy, kjv-only, independent baptist church on par with Pensacola Chrisitan College or Jack Hyles for those of you who are familiar with them. We go married young, 22 & 19, when my wife got pregnant with our first child. We now have 3 - 10,9, and 8. I deconverted a little over 2 years ago, and insisted on stop going to church, while she followed closely after. We were raised with the mindset expressed in this post, except we were never that good at it. We followed what our parents had done and yelled and generally spanked when we were pissed when they were doing something that bothered us. After we deconverted, I became very uncomfortable with spanking and instead switched to more of time-out method. We are both extremely busy, she is in school, while I was working and going to law school. This led to not alot of monitoring of the kids - lots of tv, etc. Basically they went from getting smacked around to not having much discipline at all. I am definitely not proud of that, but it is what it is. Which brings me to my current problem. We have tried over the last several months to become better parents and to guide them, but somedays they are out of control. I know it is my fault, but I need advice on how to deal with it if anyone has been in a similar situation. My daughter, the 9 year old, is especially proplamatic. She is outright defiant, refuses to listen, gives an attitude anytime she is told to do something and on more than one occasion has informed us that she hates us. Her younger brother is starting to pick up on that attitude too. What lead me to post is that tonight, when I got home from work (I work, my wife has class) the babysitter quit. She said they refused to listen, they were throwing things at her, calling her names, etc. I am at my wits end on how to deal with it. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks

 

It seems (and I could be wrong, this is just my perception of this type of dynamic) that there is a general lack of trust. Trust-building, (and that would be a whole other discussion) would need to come first. Often children of any age (and adults too when we get right down to it) act out because they feel they either aren't being heard or won't be heard. People need to feel like they are being treated fairly and that someone else understands their side of things. Building trust and listening to your kids even if they are wrong and making them feel heard and that you'll be fair might go a long way. But with having gone from spanking which often builds shame, distrust, embarrassment, and resentment, to feeling somewhat ignored is a hard place to come back from. Not impossible, but it will take work and time.

[ExFundiDCLawyer]

Wow, thanks everyone for your responses and insights. I briefly thought about calling my mom and asking her since I had been strong-willed as a child, but she is still fundi and I am sure that I would have just gotten the same fundi crap. Family counseling is definitly one direction we are going. The time aspect too is definitly one factor. We made the mistake (not that I would trade the kids for anything) of having kids and getting married way to young (cause that's what good fundis do) before either of us were emotionally or financially ready. After spinning my wheels in a dead-end job for a few years I decided to go to school and then law school. She always felt trapped as a stay-at-home mom (which is what "good christians" do) and after we got out she wanted to go to school too. Needless to say the last several years have been hectic with our schedules which I know plays a huge part in these issues. We sat down with them tonight and had a long talk about our failings as parents and the things we wanted to change going forward, as well as the expectations that we have for them. They expressed that they don't feel that we are really a family since we are gone so much and we talked through that for a while and what we could do diferently even with our schedules. Obviously, change of this significance is going to take time, but as long as we are consistent I am confident that it will improve. Hopefully we havn't scarred them permanently. We are talking to their DR tomorrow to see if she can recommend a good, secular family counselor. Thanks again!

[Mudhoney]

Wow, thanks everyone for your responses and insights. I briefly thought about calling my mom and asking her since I had been strong-willed as a child, but she is still fundi and I am sure that I would have just gotten the same fundi crap. Family counseling is definitly one direction we are going. The time aspect too is definitly one factor. We made the mistake (not that I would trade the kids for anything) of having kids and getting married way to young (cause that's what good fundis do) before either of us were emotionally or financially ready. After spinning my wheels in a dead-end job for a few years I decided to go to school and then law school. She always felt trapped as a stay-at-home mom (which is what "good christians" do) and after we got out she wanted to go to school too. Needless to say the last several years have been hectic with our schedules which I know plays a huge part in these issues. We sat down with them tonight and had a long talk about our failings as parents and the things we wanted to change going forward, as well as the expectations that we have for them. They expressed that they don't feel that we are really a family since we are gone so much and we talked through that for a while and what we could do diferently even with our schedules. Obviously, change of this significance is going to take time, but as long as we are consistent I am confident that it will improve. Hopefully we havn't scarred them permanently. We are talking to their DR tomorrow to see if she can recommend a good, secular family counselor. Thanks again!

It sounds like you and your family will be just fine. You haven't permanently scarred them. Please don't listen to what I said earlier about spanked kids being damaged permanently. I tend to go on a rant when a topic hits close to home.

[midniterider]

Christian Spanking would make an awesome alias.

 

 

Christianspankingmingle.com

[midniterider]

Spanking is as useful as any other tool but the parent who is usually pissed off by the time the spanking comes around can cross the line into abuse. These days the cops say, "Just don't leave marks." Not sure how one accomplishes that. I used just one swat to get my point across with my kids. But then once kids reach a certain age they outrun you, you can't catch them and it turns into absurdity. I remember Mom spanking me when I was in upper grade school age and I had to try not to laugh because it was so ineffective. Other sanctions can be used such as taking away toys or whatever your kid likes doing.

 

Spanking is not mandatory nor does it work any better than anything else.

[Luv2knit]

Wow, thanks everyone for your responses and insights. I briefly thought about calling my mom and asking her since I had been strong-willed as a child, but she is still fundi and I am sure that I would have just gotten the same fundi crap. Family counseling is definitly one direction we are going. The time aspect too is definitly one factor. We made the mistake (not that I would trade the kids for anything) of having kids and getting married way to young (cause that's what good fundis do) before either of us were emotionally or financially ready. After spinning my wheels in a dead-end job for a few years I decided to go to school and then law school. She always felt trapped as a stay-at-home mom (which is what "good christians" do) and after we got out she wanted to go to school too. Needless to say the last several years have been hectic with our schedules which I know plays a huge part in these issues. We sat down with them tonight and had a long talk about our failings as parents and the things we wanted to change going forward, as well as the expectations that we have for them. They expressed that they don't feel that we are really a family since we are gone so much and we talked through that for a while and what we could do diferently even with our schedules. Obviously, change of this significance is going to take time, but as long as we are consistent I am confident that it will improve. Hopefully we havn't scarred them permanently. We are talking to their DR tomorrow to see if she can recommend a good, secular family counselor. Thanks again!

 

That sounds very encouraging to me! I think you are on your way!

[Foxy Methoxy]

Seriously considering changing my name to Christian Spanking.

[badpuppy]

Wow, thanks everyone for your responses and insights. I briefly thought about calling my mom and asking her since I had been strong-willed as a child, but she is still fundi and I am sure that I would have just gotten the same fundi crap. Family counseling is definitly one direction we are going. The time aspect too is definitly one factor. We made the mistake (not that I would trade the kids for anything) of having kids and getting married way to young (cause that's what good fundis do) before either of us were emotionally or financially ready. After spinning my wheels in a dead-end job for a few years I decided to go to school and then law school. She always felt trapped as a stay-at-home mom (which is what "good christians" do) and after we got out she wanted to go to school too. Needless to say the last several years have been hectic with our schedules which I know plays a huge part in these issues. We sat down with them tonight and had a long talk about our failings as parents and the things we wanted to change going forward, as well as the expectations that we have for them. They expressed that they don't feel that we are really a family since we are gone so much and we talked through that for a while and what we could do diferently even with our schedules. Obviously, change of this significance is going to take time, but as long as we are consistent I am confident that it will improve. Hopefully we havn't scarred them permanently. We are talking to their DR tomorrow to see if she can recommend a good, secular family counselor. Thanks again!

 

Kids are resilient and durable. If they have loving parents (which it looks like they do), they'll come out alright.

[blackpudd1n]

Wow, thanks everyone for your responses and insights. I briefly thought about calling my mom and asking her since I had been strong-willed as a child, but she is still fundi and I am sure that I would have just gotten the same fundi crap. Family counseling is definitly one direction we are going. The time aspect too is definitly one factor. We made the mistake (not that I would trade the kids for anything) of having kids and getting married way to young (cause that's what good fundis do) before either of us were emotionally or financially ready. After spinning my wheels in a dead-end job for a few years I decided to go to school and then law school. She always felt trapped as a stay-at-home mom (which is what "good christians" do) and after we got out she wanted to go to school too. Needless to say the last several years have been hectic with our schedules which I know plays a huge part in these issues. We sat down with them tonight and had a long talk about our failings as parents and the things we wanted to change going forward, as well as the expectations that we have for them. They expressed that they don't feel that we are really a family since we are gone so much and we talked through that for a while and what we could do diferently even with our schedules. Obviously, change of this significance is going to take time, but as long as we are consistent I am confident that it will improve. Hopefully we havn't scarred them permanently. We are talking to their DR tomorrow to see if she can recommend a good, secular family counselor. Thanks again!

 

You've just got to find what works best for you as a family

 

Creativity has a use, too. I looked after my three young nephews every day for 6 months, doing everything with them, and at the time they were going through the "I want " phase. I didn't bother arguing with them every time they said they did or didn't want something- I'd just sing the Rolling Stones song "You Can't Always Get What You Want", regardless of whether we were at home, in the car, or in the supermarket. They soon learnt to use their manners and ask for something, and then we would discuss why or why not it was possible, or whether they could have it at some point in the future.

[Zephie]

I was told to go to my room, asked if I knew why I was in trouble, got spanked, then hugged. I also had to quote that verse from Ephesians about honoring your mother and father...took that literally and went to college because they wanted me to. Now I'm drowning in student loan debt and losing my faith. Ah well, if things start looking up I'll be able to make the payments, lol. All the spanking did was cause me to fear speaking my mind or expressing my emotions....and my parents wonder why.